Who are 'we' to name names ?

[Jud]

this is so strange.

 

Did you live through the '60s? Alternatively, have you seen TV lately?

[bluesman]

Who are 'we' to name names ?

Are you tryin' to scotch our fun, Jud?

[davidbeinct]

Are you tryin' to scotch our fun, Jud?

 

Ugh, puns! Whiskey Tango Foxtrot.

[Jud]

Are you tryin' to scotch our fun, Jud?

 

“The water was not fit to drink. To make it palatable, we had to add whisky. By diligent effort, I learned to like it.”

 

- Winston Churchill

[Melvin]

“The water was not fit to drink. To make it palatable, we had to add whisky. By diligent effort, I learned to like it.”

 

- Winston Churchill

 

Quote of the month!

 

Jud, for the second time this month (and in the same thread!) I nominate you for a prestigious nod.

[christopher3393]

Wow, what a thread.

 

this is so strange.

 

My thoughts, precisely.

 

I would use the word unsettling.

[wgscott]

I would use the word unsettling.

 

This is perhaps the oddest thing I have seen from anyone who is not pushing around a shopping cart.

[Allan F]

This is perhaps the oddest thing I have seen from anyone who is not pushing around a shopping cart.

How sure are you that he is not?

[wgscott]

You raise a very good point.

[christopher3393]

Wow, what a thread.

 

this is so strange.

 

I would use the word unsettling.

 

I personally find the juxtaposition of the OP's topic and attempts to address it with a discussion of libations unsettling. Did the thread simply drift, or is this a form of intentionally ignoring the OP (a sort of "ignoring back" in response to his ignorings), or something in between? I'm not picking on anyone here, just concerned.

[gmgraves]

Way back in 1973, my wife was beginning her first full time paying job, as an intern at a local hospital. She said she wanted to buy me a special present for all the support I gave her through med school. At one of the area wine shops they had bottles of 1969 La Tache (of course DRC - only comes that way). She bought me two bottles. Not the greatest year, but still a La Tache. They were $15 each! Still a wonderful experience. You could buy Romanee St. Vivant Domaine Marey-Monge which had recently become a DRC wine, but from the time before the change (must have been the fine 1964 vintage) for $5 - which I did. This was all before the great explosion in wine prices in the mid '70's. My grad school roommates chipped in for a case of 1970 Ch. Latour futures for a wedding present for us in December 1970. It was about $150 for the case, IIRC. (We were married on Franck Sinatra's 55th birthday and just celebrated our 45th last week.) Back in 1967 or 68 I bought two bottles of 1961 Ch. Margaux for $9.95 each. It was a big splurge for me as a grad student. I passed up on a 1961 Ch Lafite because it was too expensive at $14.95.

 

Those were the days.

 

Larry

 

Like everything else, the prices for wine have become crazy. Partially, it's snob appeal (seems like some people will pay dearly for it), partially it's the perception of superior quality, and partly, it's "brand (or in this case appellation) recognition". I know that some wineries charge more for certain "terre-oise" than they do for others. The same thing has happened with cigars. When I was smoking cigars back in the early 1980's, a good cigar was an affordable luxury. You might pay a buck or so for a Partagas or similar brand, now, I see cigars that I used buy for peanuts costing US$30-$40 apiece. At the time my absolute favorite cigar was a Tabacalara Coronas Largas Especial. A box of 25 was US$22.50. Now they are $92.00 for the same box. Good thing I stopped smoking them, and quit being a wine "aficionado".

[PopPop]

I personally find the juxtaposition of the OP's topic and attempts to address it with a discussion of libations unsettling. Did the thread simply drift, or is this a form of intentionally ignoring the OP (a sort of "ignoring back" in response to his ignorings), or something in between? I'm not picking on anyone here, just concerned.

 

Diversion started with post #24, trying to diffuse some of the strong sentiment, then it drifted in and out of coherence. Hopefully Wilhelm has followed along and is learning more about the "spirit" of CA and the denizens thereof.

[esldude]

I personally find the juxtaposition of the OP's topic and attempts to address it with a discussion of libations unsettling. Did the thread simply drift, or is this a form of intentionally ignoring the OP (a sort of "ignoring back" in response to his ignorings), or something in between? I'm not picking on anyone here, just concerned.

 

Well most people who initially replied, mainly asking what was really the topic, were put on ignore by the OP. Sort of hard to have a dialogue that way. The few other posts by the OP did nothing to clear the muddy water. Some thread drift involved discussing what we thought the thread was about and other drift was about what the thinking of the OP was and why he was posting this way. I forget where the libations came in exactly. Mostly the discussion of libations was more interesting, and fun than trying to determine what the OP's point was. So it might not be so much about a way to ignore or swamp the OP's topic which no one knows what it is and he isn't saying as much as it simply was a spontaneous happening.

[wgscott]

I personally find the juxtaposition of the OP's topic and attempts to address it with a discussion of libations unsettling. Did the thread simply drift, or is this a form of intentionally ignoring the OP (a sort of "ignoring back" in response to his ignorings), or something in between? I'm not picking on anyone here, just concerned.

 

Yeah, it should have been diverted to bicycling or dog-ownership or at least an epistemology discussion.

[wgscott]

This thread makes much more sense with the appropriate soundtrack:

 

[davidbeinct]

Yeah, it should have been diverted to bicycling or dog-ownership or at least an epistemology discussion.

 

I have a beater single speed mountain bike (although it has a wheelset worth about what the rest of the bike is). I like to use it on rail trail rides with the family. I have thought about getting an enclosed bike trailer so we can take our basset hound/lab blend, Daisy, with us. Problem is, how would I truly know she was enjoying the rides?

[bluesman]

Like everything else, the prices for wine have become crazy. Partially, it's snob appeal (seems like some people will pay dearly for it), partially it's the perception of superior quality, and partly, it's "brand (or in this case appellation) recognition". I know that some wineries charge more for certain "terre-oise" than they do for others. The same thing has happened with cigars. When I was smoking cigars back in the early 1980's, a good cigar was an affordable luxury. You might pay a buck or so for a Partagas or similar brand, now, I see cigars that I used buy for peanuts costing US$30-$40 apiece. At the time my absolute favorite cigar was a Tabacalara Coronas Largas Especial. A box of 25 was US$22.50. Now they are $92.00 for the same box. Good thing I stopped smoking them, and quit being a wine "aficionado".

And that's the connection with computer audio! Our toys have gotten a lot better and a lot less expensive relative to most other luxuries. A Marantz 8 cost $250 in 1959 - the present value of that $250, based on an average inflation rate of about 3%, is roughly $2000. My Prima Luna Prologue 5 cost me $1800 and blows my old 8b out of the water. Look at all the great pieces of equipment you can buy for well under $1k - turntables, integrateds, digital amps, DACs, etc. The "3k system" thread offers many great systems at that price. I can personally assure you that we couldn't approach the same relative level of quality in 1959 for $369.50 (the 1959 equivalent of $3k today).

 

And I don't think there's been much evolution of quality in most of the rest of the luxury world. Fine wines aren't any better today than they were in 1959, they're just more expensive, and a good cigar is still just a smoke (thank you, Sigmund). Most "luxury" leather goods and clothing are nowhere close to true luxury in actual physical quality any more. As they strove to compete, they had to cut costs and increase production. I have a Gucci leather belt that I bought many years ago - it still looks as good as new, and it's simply a world apart from what I see in their stores today. We bought a Mercedes 300D Turbo in 1983 that was made like a bank vault - we went 11 years and past 100k miles without a mechanical failure, and it was one beautifully made car. Look at a C or E class Benz today and try to imagine that it was made by the same company.

 

The only other plaything I can think of that costs far less today (in adjusted dollars) than it did in 1959 is a good guitar - we guitarists are spoiled rotten by this. A half decent saxophone is at least $3k, yet we can buy a very playable guitar of any kind (electric, acoustic, solid body, hollow, semi-hollow etc) for well under $500. I've been playing an Epiphone Les Paul 7 string on most gigs for the last several years. It cost me $170 brand new at Sam Ash, and everyone from me to the band to the audience loves the sound. The feel is fine, and it even looks pretty good if you like a heavy glossy poly finish. I haven't taken my good archtop on a gig more than 3 or 4 times in the last 5 years.

 

So rejoice, computer audiophiles - for we are blessed!

[Jud]

And that's the connection with computer audio! Our toys have gotten a lot better and a lot less expensive relative to most other luxuries.

 

* * *

 

So rejoice, computer audiophiles - for we are blessed!

 

Heck, think of how the price of computing capability has come down, and how that helps to drive some of the most exciting developments in the hobby, from running players with sophisticated filtering, to DRC, to huge, powerful databases with UIs that make it all look easy, like Roon.

[davidbeinct]

And that's the connection with computer audio! Our toys have gotten a lot better and a lot less expensive relative to most other luxuries. A Marantz 8 cost $250 in 1959 - the present value of that $250, based on an average inflation rate of about 3%, is roughly $2000. My Prima Luna Prologue 5 cost me $1800 and blows my old 8b out of the water. Look at all the great pieces of equipment you can buy for well under $1k - turntables, integrateds, digital amps, DACs, etc. The "3k system" thread offers many great systems at that price. I can personally assure you that we couldn't approach the same relative level of quality in 1959 for $369.50 (the 1959 equivalent of $3k today).

 

And I don't think there's been much evolution of quality in most of the rest of the luxury world. Fine wines aren't any better today than they were in 1959, they're just more expensive, and a good cigar is still just a smoke (thank you, Sigmund). Most "luxury" leather goods and clothing are nowhere close to true luxury in actual physical quality any more. As they strove to compete, they had to cut costs and increase production. I have a Gucci leather belt that I bought many years ago - it still looks as good as new, and it's simply a world apart from what I see in their stores today. We bought a Mercedes 300D Turbo in 1983 that was made like a bank vault - we went 11 years and past 100k miles without a mechanical failure, and it was one beautifully made car. Look at a C or E class Benz today and try to imagine that it was made by the same company.

 

The only other plaything I can think of that costs far less today (in adjusted dollars) than it did in 1959 is a good guitar - we guitarists are spoiled rotten by this. A half decent saxophone is at least $3k, yet we can buy a very playable guitar of any kind (electric, acoustic, solid body, hollow, semi-hollow etc) for well under $500. I've been playing an Epiphone Les Paul 7 string on most gigs for the last several years. It cost me $170 brand new at Sam Ash, and everyone from me to the band to the audience loves the sound. The feel is fine, and it even looks pretty good if you like a heavy glossy poly finish. I haven't taken my good archtop on a gig more than 3 or 4 times in the last 5 years.

 

So rejoice, computer audiophiles - for we are blessed!

 

Electronics, you are definitely right about. Speakers have gotten smaller, it's amazing what good sound can come out of small speakers, but the best speakers are still big, whether horns or some sort of panel, and I don't think that will ever change. Those big speakers HAVE kept up with inflation. Look at what you have to pay now for Klischorns, or good ESLs like Sound Lab or Quad.

 

Cars in general are way more reliable, they may not be built to the standard of the old Benzes, but they're built way better than the standards of GM cars from the same period.

 

Yesterdays luxury brands are becoming commodities as they trade on the exclusivity of their names, but there are new luxury brands out there. I tried on a leather jacket in a store in Honolulu, it was like I was slipping into butter, but the damn think cost five figures!

[AudioDoctor]

Did you live through the '60s? Alternatively, have you seen TV lately?

 

Born in 75, so no. I do own a TV although I rarely watch it.

[AudioDoctor]

Speaking of libations, I rarely see a pediatric patient who has had too much to drink, but I often think that perhaps their parents have had too much to drink. I never ask what they were drinking, If I had to guess however I would guess it is nothing quite as fancy as we have discussed here in this thread. Proving once again that us Audiophiles are snobs...

 

[Melvin]

Well most people who initially replied, mainly asking what was really the topic, were put on ignore by the OP. Sort of hard to have a dialogue that way. The few other posts by the OP did nothing to clear the muddy water. Some thread drift involved discussing what we thought the thread was about and other drift was about what the thinking of the OP was and why he was posting this way. I forget where the libations came in exactly. Mostly the discussion of libations was more interesting, and fun than trying to determine what the OP's point was. So it might not be so much about a way to ignore or swamp the OP's topic which no one knows what it is and he isn't saying as much as it simply was a spontaneous happening.

 

My post (#25) mentioned Glenmorangie as skin-thickener and a lovely tangent ensued. My apology to the OP but at the time the subject of the thread was still in question.

[Allan F]

Speaking of libations, I rarely see a pediatric patient who has had too much to drink, but I often think that perhaps their parents have had too much to drink. I never ask what they were drinking,

Are you referring to fetal alcohol syndrome or the parents' state when they attend appointments?

[christopher3393]

Yeah, it should have been diverted to bicycling or dog-ownership or at least an epistemology discussion.

 

Epistemology? Like how our knowledge is culturally and linguistically conditioned and stuff like that? Nah, that'd be too on-topic. Love your new avatar, btw.

[gmgraves]

And that's the connection with computer audio! Our toys have gotten a lot better and a lot less expensive relative to most other luxuries. A Marantz 8 cost $250 in 1959 - the present value of that $250, based on an average inflation rate of about 3%, is roughly $2000. My Prima Luna Prologue 5 cost me $1800 and blows my old 8b out of the water. Look at all the great pieces of equipment you can buy for well under $1k - turntables, integrateds, digital amps, DACs, etc. The "3k system" thread offers many great systems at that price. I can personally assure you that we couldn't approach the same relative level of quality in 1959 for $369.50 (the 1959 equivalent of $3k today).

 

And I don't think there's been much evolution of quality in most of the rest of the luxury world. Fine wines aren't any better today than they were in 1959, they're just more expensive, and a good cigar is still just a smoke (thank you, Sigmund). Most "luxury" leather goods and clothing are nowhere close to true luxury in actual physical quality any more. As they strove to compete, they had to cut costs and increase production. I have a Gucci leather belt that I bought many years ago - it still looks as good as new, and it's simply a world apart from what I see in their stores today. We bought a Mercedes 300D Turbo in 1983 that was made like a bank vault - we went 11 years and past 100k miles without a mechanical failure, and it was one beautifully made car. Look at a C or E class Benz today and try to imagine that it was made by the same company.

 

The only other plaything I can think of that costs far less today (in adjusted dollars) than it did in 1959 is a good guitar - we guitarists are spoiled rotten by this. A half decent saxophone is at least $3k, yet we can buy a very playable guitar of any kind (electric, acoustic, solid body, hollow, semi-hollow etc) for well under $500. I've been playing an Epiphone Les Paul 7 string on most gigs for the last several years. It cost me $170 brand new at Sam Ash, and everyone from me to the band to the audience loves the sound. The feel is fine, and it even looks pretty good if you like a heavy glossy poly finish. I haven't taken my good archtop on a gig more than 3 or 4 times in the last 5 years.

 

So rejoice, computer audiophiles - for we are blessed!

 

 

Well said!