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The $3K all in exercize.


plissken

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I'm not entirely in agreement with it, having used KEF R300 with Marantz PM5004 in the past. Now my KEF's perform way much better with the addition of the Roksan.

 

I have seen this time and again for some speaker families, especially the B&W 800 series. They only come into their own with powerful amplification, nothing the medium 40W to 60W per channel integrated amplifiers can provide.

 

Obviously your experience is your own, and I'm certainly not disputing that, however, my personal experience with my KEF R300 has been different.

 

Certainly a better and more powerful amplifier would be preferable but as a starting point the gains made by these speakers up front outweigh the slight mismatch in amp/speakers. Much easier to upgrade amp down the road.

David

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A19 doesn't have enough juice for the Kef Ls50's ,

 

Thought so myself, but I've not heard the LS50s with anything budget so the Arcam was a good starting point... or at least I thought so.

 

Obviously I stand corrected!

Next to the Word of God, the noble art of music is the greatest treasure in the world - Martin Luther

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For a $3K System?? I prefer:

 

Speaker System: Peachtree D4 -- $500.00

Integrated Amplifier: Marantz PM8005 -- $1,200.00

Digital Music Player/DAC: Marantz NA8005 -- $1,200.00

Speaker Cables: AudioQuest GBC -- $150.00

Interconnect Cable: AudioQuest Black Mamba II -- $110.00

USB Cable: AudioQuest Forest -- $40.00

Speaker Stands: Pangea Audio LS200 -- $80.00 (Sand Filled)

 

Total: $3,280.00 + Existing Toshiba Satellite S50 Laptop Computer.

 

--Charles--

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  • 2 weeks later...

It's best to remember the here-and-now, how all Posts are dated...

 

Although, over the years, I've collected 6 distinct Marantz amplification systems, I want another for 2016, their MSRP $1,099 HD-AMP1 because it'd be, in short, a special kind of an onesie solution to my present needs (which are both obvious and antiquated).

 

Some images from 11.2 MHz DSD&384 kHz 32 bit PCM (¥140,000) HD-AMP1 before more words when I've leisure time to explain :

marantz-hd_amp1-bl-atmosphere-scaled600.jpg?w=640

 

l_hm_ma02.jpg

 

86.jpg

 

The most expensive Integrated Amp of theirs that I own ? PM-15 from 1994 would be $3,730 today when converted from ¥450,000 :

pm-15.JPG

 

47257_big.jpg

 

«

an accurate picture

Sono pessimista con l'intelligenza,

 

ma ottimista per la volontà.

severe loudspeaker alignment »

 

 

 

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Yeah, I want an audiophile mini-system... And have considered too their PCM-optimised Melody Media M-CR611 (MSRP $699) :

From latter 3/4 of UK listing' date=' Overview :
The M-CR611 not only looks superb, it’s also a superb performer, reproducing excellent CD-audio, FM, DAB/DAB+ and Network files. Designed with ease of use in mind, the Melody Media features a simple “one-push” Wi-Fi connect. New Bluetooth with NFC boasts connectivity options further and iDevices can be hooked up via a front facing USB port, with an extra rear port for convenience. And there are two digital inputs for connection to a TV.

 

The Melody Media now supports Spotify Connect, as well as a host of other digital media and streaming features. Alongside listening to millions of songs on the world’s most popular online music service, it allows playback of music libraries stored on a NAS (Network Attached Storage) or a computer, provides access to thousands of free internet radio stations, and even supports Apple AirPlay. Listeners can also take control via an Android and iOS compatible Marantz Hi-Fi Remote app.

 

An additional new feature is the speaker A / B configuration, allowing individual volume control for A and B, or master volume control for A and B. Use the Melody Media not just to flood one room with music, but two. This is real versatility in elegant housing. The M-CR611 also supports ALAC, as well as 192kHz / 24bit high-resolution WAV, FLAC, AIFF files, 2.8MHz DSD file and Gapless playback.

36.jpg

4.jpg

26.jpg

2_1.jpg

But USB-B connectivity is what I prefer, and (for $400 more) :

s07_800x600.jpg

 

«

an accurate picture

Sono pessimista con l'intelligenza,

 

ma ottimista per la volontà.

severe loudspeaker alignment »

 

 

 

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I'm going to cheat and suggest that one can buy a single Devialet Phantom speaker for $1990. And once the owner has gotten used to the sound for about a year, hopefully, he/she has saved up enough money to buy another speaker to make it a stereo set. The more I think about it, it's really cheating because that is like $4K all in. However, with other systems, you can't really buy half a pair of speakers or not buy an amp or DAC to keep the budget below $3K. With a single Devialet speaker, you still get good sound, just no stereo.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Incidentally, concerning speakers-partnering considerations (plus supplementing my previous Post), how Marantz Japan bundles their 70,000円 M-CR611 with options of greater than double... almost parity, and half... :

38_2.jpg

 

Paired with B&WCM1 S2」as「Premium System」set' date=' priced at 198,000円

[/font']79_1.jpg

Paired with B&W686 S2」as「Standard System」set, priced at 160,000円

79_2.jpg

Paired with DALIZensor1」as「Basic System」set, priced at 106,000円

80.jpg

 

«

an accurate picture

Sono pessimista con l'intelligenza,

 

ma ottimista per la volontà.

severe loudspeaker alignment »

 

 

 

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If a friend came to me and said help me build a system for $3700 or less.......?

 

Pre-owned offers extreme value in this disposable market

 

Magenpan 1.7 pre owned for around $1500. Not a better value in the speaker world period

But they are power hungry so......

 

Peachtree Audio Nova220 integrated whose 220wpc will get the job done for $1k

 

A core i5 Mac mini cleaned and optimized for audio playback $500

 

An external hard drive $200

 

An Apple iPad mini for remote control $250

 

Enough left over for cables and the like.....belken or blue jeans for quality.

 

I'd put this up against any system in a properly treated listening space that has the room to accommodate Maggies.

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If a friend came to me and said help me build a system for $3700 or less.......?

 

Pre-owned offers extreme value in this disposable market

 

Magenpan 1.7 pre owned for around $1500. Not a better value in the speaker world period

But they are power hungry so......

 

Peachtree Audio Nova220 integrated whose 220wpc will get the job done for $1k

 

A core i5 Mac mini cleaned and optimized for audio playback $500

 

An external hard drive $200

 

An Apple iPad mini for remote control $250

 

Enough left over for cables and the like.....belken or blue jeans for quality.

 

I'd put this up against any system in a properly treated listening space that has the room to accommodate Maggies.

 

I have zero friends (not to mention their wives!) that would consider Magnepans. I had one acquaintance that just tried a used pair and they lasted one week. Admittedly he's a collector of sorts of larger Altecs, etc. but he couldn't integrate them and sold them almost as fast as he made the impulse decision to get them.

 

I agree that in a "properly treated listening space" the Maggie's can be really good BUT no one (sans one acquaintance) that I know has anything resembling that in their home.

David

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I have zero friends (not to mention their wives!) that would consider Magnepans. I had one acquaintance that just tried a used pair and they lasted one week. Admittedly he's a collector of sorts of larger Altecs, etc. but he couldn't integrate them and sold them almost as fast as he made the impulse decision to get them.

 

I agree that in a "properly treated listening space" the Maggie's can be really good BUT no one (sans one acquaintance) that I know has anything resembling that in their home.

 

yeah.....I don't have any audiophile friends either so my gear and passions are totally lost on them.

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Keff LS50 $1500

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23466[/ATTACH]

 

Peachtree Nova65SE $800

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23467[/ATTACH]

EC Design BBB $300 aprox

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23468[/ATTACH]

NAS $300

Thanks for bringing EC Design to my attention, from this review sounds like including their $1500 DAC and cheaper speakers than the KEF LS50 would be the way to go: EC Designs Mosaic T DAC | HFA - The Independent Source for Audio Equipment Reviews

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Half your money into the DAC seems ridiculous to me, unless you intend to spend a lot more on your speakers later.

Thanks for bringing EC Design to my attention, from this review sounds like including their $1500 DAC and cheaper speakers than the KEF LS50 would be the way to go: EC Designs Mosaic T DAC | HFA - The Independent Source for Audio Equipment Reviews

Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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Half your money into the DAC seems ridiculous to me, unless you intend to spend a lot more on your speakers later.

 

+1

 

Speakers have the largest influence on SQ. I'd keep the LS50s in the spec. and go for a cheaper DAC (Ifi micro or a Chord Mojo maybe) for now.

 

Whilst there may be endless forum posts about DACs, IME the variation in sound between different speakers is massive compared to that between DACs, even when comparing entry level to high end examples of the latter. I especially wouldn't change my plans on the basis of a single review of a DAC I haven't heard.

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Half your money into the DAC seems ridiculous to me, unless you intend to spend a lot more on your speakers later.

 

Heck, I've got half my money in the *amp*. But I couldn't find anything near the same value for less.

 

On the other hand, I think there are great DAC values at low prices these days, especially if you want to use software to do the filtering and upsampling task.

 

And though I don't disagree at all with the importance of speakers, there are surprising values there as well. Decades ago the Vandersteen 2 series was a screaming deal at a little over $1000. They're a little more expensive now, though you could pick up a used pair and use them as part of a $3K system. But after hearing the ELACs for $550 a pair fronting thousands of dollars worth of electronics, I think they would do an excellent job.

 

So even though the *sound* of the speakers is obviously critically important, that doesn't automatically require the *cost* of speakers to be the largest expense for the system.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Of course this is true, and if the topic included someone that just loved their speakers(at whatever value), my recommendation might be different. As it is, it seems like poor advice to spend half your total allotment on a DAC, especially at the rate they de value. This is further aggravated by the DAC being an unknown newcomer with only optical inputs. People can do as they desire of course, but it is not a path I would suggest to anyone in this context.

Heck, I've got half my money in the *amp*. But I couldn't find anything near the same value for less.

 

On the other hand, I think there are great DAC values at low prices these days, especially if you want to use software to do the filtering and upsampling task.

 

And though I don't disagree at all with the importance of speakers, there are surprising values there as well. Decades ago the Vandersteen 2 series was a screaming deal at a little over $1000. They're a little more expensive now, though you could pick up a used pair and use them as part of a $3K system. But after hearing the ELACs for $550 a pair fronting thousands of dollars worth of electronics, I think they would do an excellent job.

 

So even though the *sound* of the speakers is obviously critically important, that doesn't automatically require the *cost* of speakers to be the largest expense for the system.

Forrest:

Win10 i9 9900KS/GTX1060 HQPlayer4>Win10 NAA

DSD>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>"Naked" Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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+1

 

Speakers have the largest influence on SQ. I'd keep the LS50s in the spec. and go for a cheaper DAC (Ifi micro or a Chord Mojo maybe) for now.

 

Whilst there may be endless forum posts about DACs, IME the variation in sound between different speakers is massive compared to that between DACs, even when comparing entry level to high end examples of the latter. I especially wouldn't change my plans on the basis of a single review of a DAC I haven't heard.

I wouldn't spend money on any equipment I hadn't heard but I'd always advocate spending at least half the budget on the source. The better the source the better the sound on the other hand better speakers just reveal the limitations of a poor source.

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I wouldn't spend money on any equipment I hadn't heard but I'd always advocate spending at least half the budget on the source. The better the source the better the sound on the other hand better speakers just reveal the limitations of a poor source.

I've always been a believer in a source first philosophy ... Also categorised by "garbage in garbage out". However with modern equipment the source tends to be relatively cheaper to design and build than the speakers (IMO). However as I comment in my first post in this thread the balance can vary a lot as you increase expenditure so there are never any hard and fast rules.

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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