Supreme Sound Audio Opamp upgrade for Soundcard, Motherboard, DAC, Head amps

[jabbr]

Thank you - for the camaraderie if nothing else. FWIW, I just ordered the a set of balanced DSC1 boards that are entirely SMD with no existing I/V in so that I can play with the I/V stages. I have yet to dare try the toaster oven method, but I have purchased the appropriate solder. Seeing as I had to purchase the boards as a set of three, I may just try it with the extra one!

 

I highly recommend the toaster oven (~$50) with the "reflowster" controller, followed by an inspection/cleanup round with soldering iron.

 

The DSC1 is an excellent design. Stock might be a bit too "clinical" and discrete analog might give a bit more "dimensionality"

[4est]

Yep, and hence in part my interest in these discrete op amps. Thanks for the reflow suggestion. Sadly I need it on both sides. Have you any experience doing both sides of a board in that manner?

I highly recommend the toaster oven (~$50) with the "reflowster" controller, followed by an inspection/cleanup round with soldering iron.

 

The DSC1 is an excellent design. Stock might be a bit too "clinical" and discrete analog might give a bit more "dimensionality"

[jabbr]

Likewise interest.

 

Double sided: with a few small components they usually stay put when the board is flipped. In fact I don't think the other side always reaches temp.

 

If there are chips on the other side there is heat activated glue -- get the non conductive type -- and put a tiny dot under the chip. I do that but not entirely sure it's needed.

[4est]

TY for the heads up on the adhesive concept. Likely you are correct that they wouldn't reach temp, but the thought makes me nervous. I may have to look into it.

Likewise interest.

 

Double sided: with a few small components they usually stay put when the board is flipped. In fact I don't think the other side always reaches temp.

 

If there are chips on the other side there is heat activated glue -- get the non conductive type -- and put a tiny dot under the chip. I do that but not entirely sure it's needed.

[jabbr]

TY for the heads up on the adhesive concept. Likely you are correct that they wouldn't reach temp, but the thought makes me nervous. I may have to look into it.

 

Yeah that's why I use it. Realigning a resistor is no problem but I wouldn't want to try an IC.

 

Another tip: by tweaking your profile, you can barely heat the solder paste enough to coalesce: if so less likely the bottom side will heat, and any incomplete areas can easily be touched up with a soldering iron (usually need to do some cleanup with desoldering wick in any case).

 

The solder paste is great to work with, I use it for through hole parts as well.

[TJHUB]

Talk about derailing a thread...

[jabbr]

Talk about derailing a thread...

 

We were talking about swapping opamps which involves soldering, at least for some. 4est is specifically looking at the OP op-amp for his DSC1. I gave some tips in building the DSC1.

Didn't mean to interrupt. You were saying?

[4est]

And I would love a chance to hear them in my rig and requested a set from the OP Alex. Seeing as he has been silent (not that it hasn't been a holiday or anything), I really do not see the issue with anyone discussing things here. If for no other reason than it keeps the thread active. With that said, I'll stop now. Happy New Year everyone!

We were talking about swapping opamps which involves soldering, at least for some. 4est is specifically looking at the OP op-amp for his DSC1. I gave some tips in building the DSC1.

Didn't mean to interrupt. You were saying?

[4est]

Bump, in an effort to return to our regularly scheduled programming.

Hello Alex,

 

If you are still looking for takers on this offer, I am very interested. Early on I debated on this offer due to the unusual nature of my DAC, and what I assumed would have had more interest than has been displayed. I'd have thought more individuals would be interested, but then many may not be using socketed devices and not willing to rework their DACs. This is what I am using: Signalyst

It essentially is a DSD only DAC using shift registers instead of a D>A chip with opamp I/V and output. I am running it stock using one each per channel of AD844, LME49710 and LME49720. If my budget had allowed it, I may have purchased some of your discrete opamps originally. As you can see, I have plenty of room in my chassis!

Thank you for your consideration, Forrest

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23028[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]23029[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]23030[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]23031[/ATTACH]

[Animaniac]

Here's a Japanese company that makes op-amps FIDELIX ‹Zpî•ñ

The word is at the moment they do not ship out of Japan.

[gmgraves]

In the interest of fairness, surface mount is tedious and tenuous but doable with magnifiers. Through hole parts are easy if you are willing to trash what is existing and put a socket into it. Simply clip the leads and remove them one by one. Most op amps one would replace are cheap enough to buy a new set of originals along with the intended replacements.

 

 

A cheap solder-sucker and/or some solder-wick is useful here as well.

[gmgraves]

This is certainly true.

Using the toaster oven/reflowster SMD technique is pretty smooth, and placing surface mount is much much easier than *re*placing

 

Amen to that! In the computer world, Repair shops don't replace surface-mount parts at all, they just replace mother boards. Companies like Dell and Apple send the defective mother boards to some central location where they are trouble-shot to the component level and technicians with the tools and the skill to replace surface-mount parts repair the motherboards for re-stocking. I don't know how high-end audio manufacturers handle this issue. Most audio manufacturers who use surface-mount technology most likely farm their circuit-board assembly out to contractors as the cost of the assembly equipment would be pretty prohibitive for small companies.

[Deaf Cat]

Hi Alex

 

I know your last post referring to the two op amps highlighted with blue squares mentioned they may be in the output area of the circuit, I was not sure about this as they seem to line up with the inputs, so I called the manufacturer just to ask if they may be able to suggest where may be the best place to position 2 trial op amps, as you mentioned you were unfamiliar with this box. In talking to an engineer at XTA about my XTA428 (being over ten years old) I thought the company were very helpful indeed, quality product, quality service! :-) and I learnt quite a lot in that phone call.

 

OK, I shall try to explain:

It turns out if I am only using two inputs A & B (which I am, stereo left and right) the left hand blue square op amp would be the only one being used. Only if I were using all 4 inputs A B C & D would the two highlighted blue squares be used - I think - me trying to understand electronics! from an engineer who is remembering a 10 year old product, ;-)

 

So if I am using inputs C & D, and put an op amp in the right hand blue square, I was given the impression it may be difficult to hear any difference, unless the two op amps to the left and right of that op amp were also changed, input signal C & D having trial op amps in all of the input signal path...(my left and right channels)

 

On the output, there is 1 op amp per output,

output 1 is left woofer,

output 2 is left tweeter,

output 3 is right woofer,

output 4 is right tweeter,

So in replacing only two op amps either -

one speaker would be sounding different,

Or the two woofers

Or the two tweeters, which again I was given the impression may be difficult to hear any change..

 

The engineer did however comment, that maybe a good place to trial a limited number of op amps was directly after the dacs on the analogue board, of which there are 4 stereo dacs, each with one op amp. As I am only using 2 inputs and 4 outputs I would only be using possibly two dacs and hence only need two op amps, however the software in programming the crossover and dsp routes the signals.... which dacs does it choose...??

 

So his first comment when I mentioned 2 trial op amps was:

It may be difficult to find the best location for just 2 as there are so many op amps in the unit - I now understand why!

 

He did ask the price and where they were came from, he nearly fell off his chair when I told him the list price, as they still use the 5532 in their current models, still r&d-ed the best over all these years for the DP448 application, however he did ask me to email him on my thoughts regarding our test results, he was thinking of a monitoring amp that could prove interesting with possible op amp changes, and then wished me luck.

 

So it looks like to me, to make use of the 2 trial ones your kindly sending, they may be best (my thoughts - Please do comment!) on the two op amp positions to the left and right, of the right blue square... hitting left and right inputs.

 

Or I think the dac part may produce the best results but who knows what dac the software will use choose to use.. - I could choose the dacs that physically line up with the outputs that I use..logical?? and see how it goes..??

 

Anyways, now that the hols are over I hope the trial ones will arrive any day now!! :-D

 

 

Hi Odelay, thank you very much for your kind words of support. : )

 

Thank you all for submitting your wonderful photos.

 

To start, we would like Argopo and Deaf Cat to trail our opamps in return for their honest feedback. Bubba Boy Sam, Animaniac and everyone else, we'll be selecting more participants once Argopo and Deaf Cat has provided their feedback. : )

 

Argopo, we would like to send you 2 pairs (4 units) of our single version SS audio op-amp for your M3.

Deaf Cat, we will be sending you 1 pair of dual SS audio op-amp. Please use this one pair to replace the NE5532s indicated in the below photo.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22724[/ATTACH]

 

Please PM me or email us on [email protected] to inform us of your prefer delivery address for these audio op-amps.

[Deaf Cat]

Hi there,

 

A couple of years ago I ordered single- and double-sided Dexa op amps as an upgrade for the MiniMax DAC+. I can't remember why I chose the Dexa's over the Bursons - it may have been down to size.

 

Earlier this year I purchased the EE Supreme, and had a Singapore company modify it for me. Part of their mod programme was to add Burson op amps. So that is why I have them.

 

Whilst I can notice a subtle improvement between the discrete op amps and the IC's, I can't actually tell too much of the difference between the Dexas and the Bursons. There is a review somewhere which compares the two; I can find that for you if it is helpful.

 

I struggle to tell the difference between DACs these days - they all sound pretty good to me. But a DAC with upgraded op amps always sounds a little sweeter and smoother to me than one with standard IC op amps. I have a few DACs at home, and I personally notice less of a difference between an entry level DAC ($300) and a mid-range DAC ($1500) than I do between a mid-range DAC with rolled op amps and the same DAC without.

 

YMMV, of course, this is just my experience and subjective opinion.

 

Cheers

 

Thank you for that :-)

 

Yes I heard 3 dacs all around the 2k mark a few years ago, and each performed better with a different style of music! how so?!! okay if one was going to stick with the same type of music.

 

Differences were slight but noticeable, and in hearing the differences one would have always thought that if I play this type of music this dac would have been better... or that type of dac for that type of music :-0

 

Rather than be confused any further, I just I stuck with mine :-)

[Deaf Cat]

I modified my last couple of DACs with Burson op amps. In both cases, the DACs gained a significant increase clarity and a much richer tone. Please understand that clarity includes significant increases in imaging, palpabiliy, and sense of dimension.

 

My current DAC is an Eastern Electric Minimax DAC Plus. I tried many of the usual op amps before trying Burson V3 op amps. Once the Burson's were installed, I stopped looking for something better.

 

Last April, a friend that has my exact DAC, but with DEXA op amps, brought his to my house so we could compare. The two were more similar than different, but I could hear more definition and details from the DAC with the DEXAs. I finally decided to buy DEXAs to replace the Burson's about a month ago. When I went to buy them, I saw they now offered a Special Edition version, so that's what a purchased. I would say they have slightly better clarity, better bass definition, and a slightly higher pitch and more detailed treble, with great midrange tone over my V3 Burson's.

 

One aspect that also factored into my decision was the physical size of op amps. The Burson V3's are rather large, and forced me to add spacers to the lid of my DAC. The DEXAs allow me to put the lid on normally, and they run cooler. I would have easily considered these small package Burson's had I known about them.

 

Hmm it would be interesting to slot a Burson V5 in the place of your dexa just to see/hear! :-)

[TJHUB]

Hmm it would be interesting to slot a Burson V5 in the place of your dexa just to see/hear! :-)

 

I would be willing. I'm curious as to how they differ from my V3's as well.

[Argopo]

As a follow-up to my earlier post:

 

I was able to spend more time with the V5s this week.

 

As I mentioned earlier, I thought they have the best qualities of the the other opamps I have tried. They sounded smooth and organic (like the OPA627) and had better soundstage depth than the AD8610 or AD825. Spacious and detailed.

 

When I put back the AD8610, the forwardness of this opamp was more evident. But, the AD8610 was also noticeably more extended in the HF. I was able to hear more clearly incidental noise like the tape hiss of analog recordings.

 

The V5s are more similar to the OPA627 than either the AD8610 or AD825.

 

I prefer the V5s over the OPA627 mostly because, I felt, the treble was better executed. More refined. And they were not as warm sounding as the OPA627.

 

I prefer the HF extension of the AD8610 over the V5s, but I am disappointed by its somewhat forward nature. Also, the extended highs are more a negative than positive with certain recordings. The AD device, also had better transient response, sharper with more impact.

 

Interestingly, despite some of the misgivings about the V5s, i spent a lot of time just listening to music with them in my headphone amp (instead of judging the quality of the recording). If my primary headphone was the Sennheiser HD800, I would leave the V5s in the headphone amp.

 

Now that I have the AD8610 back in the amp, it does sound more HI-FI. By contrast, the V5s have a more natural presentation.

 

Over the next couple of weeks I plan to swap the AD825 back in and eventually try the LME49710.

[Richard E]

New here, but would love to try your Opamp Upgrade on my AuzenTech X-Raider 7.1 Channels 24-bit 96KHz PCI Interface Sound Card.

 

High-Performance Operational Amplifiers The AuzenTech X-Raider 7.1 PCI Sound Card’s NJM4556A Operational Amplifiers (OPAMPs) combine excellent DC and AC characteristics with low-noise, high-output drive capability, high-unity gain, and maximum-output swing bandwidths.