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Which one to buy: UpTone USB REGEN or Intona USB Isolator?


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Hi NAIDIVER,

 

I think basically aluminum should be almost as effective as copper for shielding high EM frequencies because of its high conductivity. For lower frequencies (below 100 KHz) copper is said to be better, although the aluminum case is much thicker (1.5 mm) than the copper tape that I ordered (0.1 mm), so I'm not sure if the copper tape will make a difference. I'm thinking of buying an EMF meter to do some measurements.

 

A problem with aluminum (as was already mentioned by John Swenson) is that the surface will always be oxidized and aluminum oxide is an insulator (also see your graph above). This may compromise the electrical connection between the lid and the rest of the aluminum case so it won't act as one continuous shield. The copper tape I ordered has a conductive adhesive. Applying it to the outside of the aluminum case directly after sanding off the oxide should effectively seal it and fully connect the two aluminum parts..

 

Hi, Abtr

I don't understand that chart much.

I thought i have to see it insulator index. Is it wrong?

DAC - Mytek Brooklyn, Intona High Speed Isolator.Int.Amp - ATC SIA2 150,SP - ATC SCM19, Sub - Paradigm SW2200

Source - Audio PC, Core i7 4785T 2.2Ghz, 8G PPA RAM, Samsung 850pro , WD Black HDD, JCAT USB card, PPA BLACK SATA Cable, HDPLEX H5 gen2 case, LPSu - Uptone JS-2 for DAC and USB Card - TeraDak ATX350W for PC, OS wins2012R2, Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, ASIO JPLAY, Foobar2000+Ramdisk, Hq player, SP cable - JPS superconductor2, Analog interconnect - Harmornic Tech Magic link III, USB cable - JCAT twin cable, Power cable - JPS kaptivator for Uptone JS-2 forDAC and USB card, Wireworld electra7 for PC, Wireworld electra7 silver for Amp, Magnet 2000 power line stabilzer and conditioner for DAC,PC

12932837_1700967073514123_7525078827891555851_n.jpg

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Don't forget NAIDIVER we are just experimenting with what we have.. I had copper tape and aluminum foil.

 

Different metals act as filters of certain frequencies in my simple way of seeing it some better than others. Ball bearings steel... great idea especially if they are at hand. MU metal is very expensive but is a specialist product to use for magnetic fields. So I bit the BB bullet for the group and bought some to see if others should or not bother....

Better one waste a few dollars than all....

 

I don't think many on here can explain the fundamentals of quantum field interactions at the atomic level... So playing with box's and tin foil it is... and rely on our little ears....

The main thing is we are trying something different.. than just saying don't bother....

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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Hi, Abtr

I don't understand that chart much.

I thought i have to see it insulator index. Is it wrong?

Hi NAIDIVER,

I don't know what specific point the chart is supposed to illustrate but the data seems to be correct. The chart shows the varying resistance of different base metals and their oxides. All the metal oxides are semi-conductive except aluminum oxide which is an insulator with electrical resistance of 10^15 Ω/m. This doesn't make aluminum a bad EMI shielding material. It's just something to consider when you build an aluminum Faraday cage. :)

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Hi gent's, remember I said I wasn't sure about grounding using a faraday shield.

God forbid it's a full on article about EMI shielding for expert review and I hope it is of interest to the engineers reading it . Optical decoupling was interesting.....

But our little issue and experiments. This statement :

 

.EMI Control Devices and Techniques

 

The performance of some EMI control techniques or devices may be significantly influenced by grounding. In particular, cable shields; isolation transformers; EMI filters; ESD, lightning, and EMF protection techniques; and

 

*****Faraday shields must be properly grounded so as to provide maximum EMI protection....*** .

 

Our little metal box isn't part of the circuitry. . so would a cut down power chord with just the earth attached work ? improve shielding... A eyelet crimp tab ? Screwed into the case and plugged into the safety ground of a normal power strip (Earth)

 

1473807156010.jpg Example...

 

 

 

Here is the page and site full of info for those interested..

 

http://www.interferencetechnology.com/designing-electronic-systems-for-emc-grounding-for-the-control-of-emi-3/

 

A bit of learning and something else to think about....

 

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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Our little metal box isn't part of the circuitry. . so would a cut down power chord with just the earth attached work ? improve shielding... A eyelet crimp tab ? Screwed into the case and plugged into the safety ground of a normal power strip (Earth)

 

Is your computer connected by a 3 pin IEC mains socket to mains earth ?

If so, the screen connection of the Intona's incoming USB socket is likely to be connected to mains earth. You should be able to verify this using a DMM.

If it is, try connecting the metal work of the USB socket to the metal case.

 

Alex

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Is your computer connected by a 3 pin IEC mains socket to mains earth ?

If so, the screen connection of the Intona's incoming USB socket is likely to be connected to mains earth. You should be able to verify this using a DMM.

If it is, try connecting the metal work of the USB socket to the metal case.

 

Alex

 

Hi, Alex

I also used EMI absorber sheet. Do i have to do the same?

I meant is it grounding necessary?

 

And second question, does it cause short circuit if it contact to any paths of circuit?

DAC - Mytek Brooklyn, Intona High Speed Isolator.Int.Amp - ATC SIA2 150,SP - ATC SCM19, Sub - Paradigm SW2200

Source - Audio PC, Core i7 4785T 2.2Ghz, 8G PPA RAM, Samsung 850pro , WD Black HDD, JCAT USB card, PPA BLACK SATA Cable, HDPLEX H5 gen2 case, LPSu - Uptone JS-2 for DAC and USB Card - TeraDak ATX350W for PC, OS wins2012R2, Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, ASIO JPLAY, Foobar2000+Ramdisk, Hq player, SP cable - JPS superconductor2, Analog interconnect - Harmornic Tech Magic link III, USB cable - JCAT twin cable, Power cable - JPS kaptivator for Uptone JS-2 forDAC and USB card, Wireworld electra7 for PC, Wireworld electra7 silver for Amp, Magnet 2000 power line stabilzer and conditioner for DAC,PC

12932837_1700967073514123_7525078827891555851_n.jpg

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Hi, Alex

I also used EMI absorber sheet. Do i have to do the same?

I meant is it grounding necessary?

 

And second question, does it cause short circuit if it contact to any paths of circuit?

 

Check first if the metal shell of the incoming USB socket on the Intona is connected to earth when connected to your computer.

You can also do this by measuring the resistance between mains earth and the metal shell of the USB plug at the output end of the USB cable from the computer. You should only read a few ohms resistance if it is.

You don't need to touch the EMI absorber sheet.

Before doing this, check that there is no measurable resistance between either the Input or Output USB socket shells and the metal case due to how you have mounted it in the case.

 

How a Digital Audio file sounds, or a Digital Video file looks, is governed to a large extent by the Power Supply area. All that Identical Checksums gives is the possibility of REGENERATING the file to close to that of the original file.

PROFILE UPDATED 13-11-2020

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Check first if the metal shell of the incoming USB socket on the Intona is connected to earth when connected to your computer.

You can also do this by measuring the resistance between mains earth and the metal shell of the USB plug at the output end of the USB cable from the computer. You should only read a few ohms resistance if it is.

You don't need to touch the EMI absorber sheet.

Before doing this, check that there is no measurable resistance between either the Input or Output USB socket shells and the metal case due to how you have mounted it in the case.

 

For the absorber sheet, i didn't applied it for intona but my pc. Just ask for the information. ^^

Is it ferrite or something?

Can it cause short circuit on my pc?

Thanks....

DAC - Mytek Brooklyn, Intona High Speed Isolator.Int.Amp - ATC SIA2 150,SP - ATC SCM19, Sub - Paradigm SW2200

Source - Audio PC, Core i7 4785T 2.2Ghz, 8G PPA RAM, Samsung 850pro , WD Black HDD, JCAT USB card, PPA BLACK SATA Cable, HDPLEX H5 gen2 case, LPSu - Uptone JS-2 for DAC and USB Card - TeraDak ATX350W for PC, OS wins2012R2, Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, ASIO JPLAY, Foobar2000+Ramdisk, Hq player, SP cable - JPS superconductor2, Analog interconnect - Harmornic Tech Magic link III, USB cable - JCAT twin cable, Power cable - JPS kaptivator for Uptone JS-2 forDAC and USB card, Wireworld electra7 for PC, Wireworld electra7 silver for Amp, Magnet 2000 power line stabilzer and conditioner for DAC,PC

12932837_1700967073514123_7525078827891555851_n.jpg

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Thanks Alex.. I suppose I am unique out of our little group as I transport from my phone. I have a cheap nasty laptop I got for the wife but my phone sounds better. Usb Audio pro for Android now with bit perfect playback....!

So I can't piggy back on the shield..

But a small mod I tried ( The Dual cables and a usb hub....)

+- data from the phone /ground... usb.

power cut.. cable 1

 

cable 2

power + ground spliced into cable soldered data +/- cut... I did it more for my battery life and the usb hub I had was USB 3 so it wouldn't just work.. but the power 5v is fine. But just until I get a power bank to run the 5V off not a phone charger....

 

Sorry Alex a long winded explanation ..' No I can't If I use the power bank Battery fed 5V' ?.

So the earth tab is my option.

Great idea with checking if the usb shielding can earth back to the PC ground....

Alex proving that the Borg are wrong saying that "Resistance is futile"

 

Tyll Hertsen Inner fidelity...Just came back from a technical convention and did an article about a white paper you may find interesting on Shielding/ Headphones...

 

Cheers for the help Alex.. Always appreciated Dave?

 

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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Hi gent's, remember I said I wasn't sure about grounding using a faraday shield.

God forbid it's a full on article about EMI shielding for expert review and I hope it is of interest to the engineers reading it . Optical decoupling was interesting.....

But our little issue and experiments. This statement :

 

.EMI Control Devices and Techniques

 

The performance of some EMI control techniques or devices may be significantly influenced by grounding. In particular, cable shields; isolation transformers; EMI filters; ESD, lightning, and EMF protection techniques; and

 

*****Faraday shields must be properly grounded so as to provide maximum EMI protection....*** .

 

Our little metal box isn't part of the circuitry. . so would a cut down power chord with just the earth attached work ? improve shielding... A eyelet crimp tab ? Screwed into the case and plugged into the safety ground of a normal power strip (Earth)

 

[ATTACH]29006[/ATTACH]

 

Example...

 

Here is the page and site full of info for those interested..

 

Designing Electronic Systems for EMC: Grounding for the Control of EMI - Interference TechnologyInterference Technology

 

A bit of learning and something else to think about....

Hi Middy, You can connect the shielding to AC ground/earth. It doesn't make an audible difference in my system though. Moreover, here there is a 500mV AC potential between AC ground and e.g. my body. :eek: All my audio gear upstream from the Intona (including power supplies) is disconnected from AC ground and (somehow) that makes an audible difference in my system. And I wouldn't connect the shielding to the USB casing; after all, the USB connection is what the Intona is isolating..

 

The article you linked to states: "Faraday shields must be properly grounded so as to provide maximum EMI protection." The reason for grounding a metal shielding would be to prevent it from becoming 'saturated'. I can say that my mobile phone doesn't work inside the aluminum casing of the Intona, either with - or without an AC ground connection and with the Intona working. So it seems to me that the shielding doesn't become saturated..

 

I wonder, BTW, whether shielding the Intona works by preventing EM radiation coming in or going out or both? :)

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I haven't tried it yet but the electrican at work got me a tab. A twisted pair is better.. but I had an old lamp chord so twisted the neutral live together both ends and attached to just the earth pin....

Probably single wire is better I am not sure but I use what I have...

 

The earth lead cost me nothing.... So nothing ventured nothing gained....

 

I am not sure what if any this will help ...What levels strength and frequency. What the Intona is producing... What's being blocked... Your local noise...

Just can we hear a difference [emoji2]

Some pics coming...

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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It appears to me based on my experience that, USB cable (type/quality/make) between the computer and the Intona has very little or no affect on the sound quality. Anyone else experienced/experimented with that?

Sorry sig8 I don't use a pc as transport.. But the cables I've used so far I haven't heard any real difference. In the £30 range.... Like this little experiment.. I only kept trying as I did hear a change... But this is cheap compared to the cable game..... I am pushing it for a group benefit and what's a waste of time...and a bit of fun...

 

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/aes-headphone-technology-conference-stuff-possibly-useful-headphone-enthusiasts#UDuMilLGe38CE0Te.97

 

More things to read.......but the point being engineers like shielded cables......Sig8. ..

 

Please remember all I am just a nobody... If a few learn a bit and have fun tinkering cheaply then it's a win win...☺

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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Drain to earth....I think there is a sonic difference...But the finer the change ...Then the harder it is not to pass it off as wishful thinking, placebo ect. This wasn't about splitting hairs but basic engineering on the cheap...

This one was a bit off effort but free....

The drain based on engineering principles..... Free ..an old plug and some wire... Just the MU metal to try..Then unless someone comes up with an idea ..nearly the end of the road...?..... But basics like cables properly shield end to end back to the Computer earth makes sense.

A resistance check as Alex rightly stated ..Less noise in the digital chain....

The Intona acting as an aerial to EM... We ... Us... Shielding it reducing the various frequencies inducing changes to the digital signal....

Nearly the end my friends..... ?

 

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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More listening... I am sure there is a sonic change with the earth drain coming off the case. I hope others can confirm ..or refute..... a change and if they like it..... I wouldn't make a good company salesman..... Middy cables only $5000 per metre.... They might work or not...?

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

 

Middy have been following this thread and your steps to shielding the Intona. In fact you inspired me to have the Intona transferred into an Aluminium case, (copper foil lined in part)....and I hate to admit it, but you can tell a difference, the sound definitely opens up. Will post some pics when finished with the foil, as I ran out of the copper foil.

I took this further. In fact I tried copper foil inside both a uRendu and a Hydra Z (USB/spdif converter), very positive difference - more air, open sound, increased dynamics, better micro detail.

ER / Geisman OXCO / Grimm MU1  / Dutch & Dutch 8C / Townshend Seismic Isolation

 

HP - SMSL Sanskrit 10th A’ , Woo Audio WA5 LE, Hifiman HEK v2

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That's fantastic.. I am glad it helped the others as well. For the non-expert such a simple thing to try. I didn't want people spending a fortune or anything dangerous. From reading more.. a big continuous piece is better than strips.... Overlapping joints.

I am not sure if creating a hard joint would help...The tape is thin and backed with adhesive. So I may try a little soldered dot to join them together ..A couple of wires for the 2 half's...If I get a chance finally try MU metal on the intona just around the pcb.

I am using some on my LPS around the Toroidal transformer.. drain wire going to the IEC earth pin. I hopefully should have enough left for the Intona. .. I have Kapton tape from work to make sure the are no shorting points....and it's high temp stuff....

(The LPS IS MY RISK ALONE).....

The shield is round on the LPS toroid . .. to split the AC noise from the DC Out hopefully....

 

I may make a small tube for the Intona... around the PCB... screw the foil and the pcb back in...then fold around it like a chocolate bar....

Magnetic field lines are Dipole and circular so a curved shield is better.

the screw I attached the external drain onto goes inside ...so a drain wire from foil to nut should help....If it makes a difference??? Or the MU metal is a step to far...If don't want people to waste money....Just fun trying..

and now with Evo joining the fold another win for almost free....

 

I have Aluminum insulation joining tape as well I used in the Aluminium cast project box...... From when I insulated the garage...

 

Thanks for trying this Evo.. much appreciated for adding another set of impressions and showing it can benefit from trying extra shielding.... Blocking more..different range of frequencies? reducing DB's in strength.??. Less noise and effects on the circuits... I think?

I am just a nobody don't forget....Any tips or ideas always welcome....

Good luck and looking forward to pictures...

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G900F using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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  • 2 weeks later...

So for those who have tried one or more USB decrapifiers in series, how do the cables in the chain affect SQ?

 

For example, consider:

Source - Cardas Clear - Intona - curious link - RUR - lightspeed - DAC

Is the sonic signature of these cables an amalgam of all 3? Or is it really the last cable to the DAC that impacts the SQ?

 

Just wondering where to invest $$ in cables.

 

I am looking for actual experiences, not opinions.

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While I haven't used all these devices and cables together, I've owned most and here is what I would try.

 

First off replace the Cardas cable with a usb adapter from the PC to Intona. For some reason the Intona seems to benefit from a short cable. This may be an awkward placement, but the benefits should be worth it.

 

Next run the LHLABS cable from the Intona to RUR. If you don't need power, keep the power leg unplugged.

 

Lastly use the Curious REGEN link between the RUR and DAC. I had a Curious cable here between the Intona and REGEN with a Supra between REGEN and DAC. It didn't add much. But after swapping positions with the Supra cable the sound quality unopened up.

Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio

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While I haven't used all these devices and cables together, I've owned most and here is what I would try.

 

First off replace the Cardas cable with a usb adapter from the PC to Intona. For some reason the Intona seems to benefit from a short cable. This may be an awkward placement, but the benefits should be worth it.

 

Next run the LHLABS cable from the Intona to RUR. If you don't need power, keep the power leg unplugged.

 

Lastly use the Curious REGEN link between the RUR and DAC. I had a Curious cable here between the Intona and REGEN with a Supra between REGEN and DAC. It didn't add much. But after swapping positions with the Supra cable the sound quality unopened up.

 

Thanks - that's interesting, that you found the best benefit from putting the Curious link as the last in the chain.

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