Which one to buy: UpTone USB REGEN or Intona USB Isolator?

[sandyk]

Not sure if you meant, "Don't write off the Regen"? I still have the USB Isolator but not the Regen. I also had the Regen powered by my LPS at the 5v level, which would deactivate the Regen's own power [delivery] supply.

 

Sorry. I meant the Regen . Did you also try the Regen from a Linear PSU with the 7.5 V DC that it was designed to work with ?

[foreverzer0]

Sorry. I meant the Regen . Did you also try the Regen from a Linear PSU with the 7.5 V DC that it was designed to work with ?

 

I had it connected to my LPS4's 12V initially because my DAC doesn't need USB power. Then I found a usb to M-barrel cable online and used the 5v usb output of my LPS4 to the Regen. It ran cooler and seemingly more stable that way. I used to get random music disconnects when the Regen got too warm (my setup is in front of a window and the sun can come in to warm the enclosure even more). No more dropouts after switching to 5V (and Uptone confirmed this will work, it just doesn't enable its own regulated supply, in which I don't need anyway).

[Superdad]

These isolaters are also phy-level receiver/isolator/reclocker/repacketizer whereas from my understanding, the Regen does all of those except isolate.

 

If you are referring to the CoolGear isolator, then that is incorrect. There are no USB PHYs and no clocks in the CoolGear. I own one and have become friendly with Rene, the owner of CoolGear. There is a somewhat long and confidential backstory to that product. And long before it was ever announced, I was working with the maker of the isolator chip it uses.

 

The improvements were there with the Regen, but wasn't as dramatic as the isolator for my case. I would describe it as sounding a little more analog. Even if together netted additional improvement, I'd doubt it would be greater than the sum of its parts.

 

I agree but also disagree (despite my obvious commercial interest here I am being very honest about what I hear and what we have found). The isolator chip in the CoolGear adds tons of jitter--probably more than most basic digital isolators and a bit more than a typical FPGA. With the CoolGear alone it can be heard VERY clearly--smearing of time and soundstage--exactly what excessive jitter sounds like.

 

With the CoolGear, one does get the benefit of galvanic isolation--much "blacker" backgrounds and startling bass (wish I understood why blocking ground current noise from the computer always shows up so readily in the bass--same thing happened, to a lesser extent when last May we made the "amber" REGEN by adding resistance to the USB ground/shields). But what you describe as "more analog" is very euphonic and quite typical of excess jitter. At least that I what I hear when using the CoolGeear by itself.

 

But put the REGEN after it, and my oh my, the REGEN takes care of the CoolGear's added jitter and everything comes together beautifully.

 

It is still not perfect. The CoolGear powers both sides of the isolator from the VBUS--using a DC-DC switching regulator. And despite it having a 5V jack to optionally power the downstream side externally, I do not find that it helps. Also, the CoolGear is fussy about what cables it will drive or be driven by. My 1m Curious Cable won't work on either side of it (though the 20cm one does).

 

I have been quiet about this for a couple of reasons:

1) Rene at CoolGear asked me not to talk up the product just yet as this presently is a "soft launch" (his words), which I took to mean that either the product will change (the board does look pretty beta) or that they are just ramping up production;

2) Remember above I mentioned that we have been working with the isolator chip maker (since December)? Does not take much to see where this is going--but we are not quite ready to drop our bombshell about it. (Though perhaps I just did.)

 

I know this is also the Intona thread, but please don't ask me for a comparison between the Intona and the Coolgear by themselves as my Intona unit needs firmware upgrade and thus at this time won't function without the REGEN after it. But I am pretty sure that used alone the Intona will sound better than the CoolGear, because despite its various not-designed-with-audio-in-mind engineering flaws, at least the Intona attempts some reclocking at its output.

 

Shutting up now…

--Alex C.

[jamesg11]

I'll need someone else to interpret / fill in Alex's hinted-at ...

[foreverzer0]

Presumably the next-gen Regen with isolating capabilities along with the DC-DC Mystery Supply, to make it the ultimate Regen yet.

 

Anyway, as for the PHY-level portion I obtained from Intona's FAQ. As for the reclocking on the CoolGear, I figured in the description "Packet Protocol Sequencer for Endpoint 0/1" meant that - though I could have misinterpreted that or was misinformation on their description.

 

Either way, maybe I'll have to lookout for the next-gen Regen

[ElviaCaprice]

I don't know. It's going have to take something very special and well proven to get me off the Intona/(JKenny battery mod)Regen combo. They are a special USB combo in their own right. I'm not looking to purchase the new power supply (Uptone) either. Don't have any use for it at the moment.

[sligolad]

+1 for the Intona and Regen combo, it is one part of my chain that will not change for the foreseeable future unless unless Uptone come up with a surprise!!

I have not got around to the JK Regen mod yet and I should have as I was at a group meet where John had his first battery modded regen to compare against my Regen and there was no doubt as to how good it was and everyone at the meet could easily hear the difference.

 

ElviaCaprice, you should try this new Linux player here http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/wtfplay-27786/

Leave your current system as it is and just stick in the USB stick and away you go.

It blows away JRiver for PCM and no drivers needed for Intona or Hugo, just plug and play.

If you are not into testing no worries but I have no doubt you will be impressed with the combo you have.

[r_w]

Intona feeding the W4S Recovery is working best for me.

 

I've since moved the Regen to my 2nd setup.

[Superdad]

+1 for the Intona and Regen combo, it is one part of my chain that will not change for the foreseeable future unless unless Uptone come up with a surprise!!

 

I agree, it is a great combo. And our goal is to surpass it (which based on other enhancements, we already have with the protos).

 

Here is my set-up with the Intona and funny looking REGEN PCB (note the moat around the input jack).

 

This is NOT the announcement, but you guys make it hard to keep cats in bags. Due to significant parts costs increases (there are other surprise enhancements that will be revealed at official time and place), price will be $100 higher.

 

That's all I'm saying for now.

 

[jamesg11]

+1 for the Intona and Regen combo, it is one part of my chain that will not change for the foreseeable future unless unless Uptone come up with a surprise!!

I have not got around to the JK Regen mod yet and I should have as I was at a group meet where John had his first battery modded regen to compare against my Regen and there was no doubt as to how good it was and everyone at the meet could easily hear the difference.

Did JK run it with a Cuinas, & how did that sound? I'd like that mod here, to cf with lpsu, but not handy solder etc wise. I'm about to try the combo of macmini-Curious-Regen-Curious-Cuinas usb-spdif now that the curious links are fully run-in.

 

Gotta get an Intona it seems - but waiting on Alex & John! ...

[Evo1668]

I agree, it is a great combo. And our goal is to surpass it (which based on other enhancements, we already have with the protos).

 

Here is my set-up with the Intona and funny looking REGEN PCB (note the moat around the input jack).

 

This is NOT the announcement, but you guys make it hard to keep cats in bags. Due to significant parts costs increases (there are other surprise enhancements that will be revealed at official time and place), price will be $100 higher.

 

That's all I'm saying for now.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24656[/ATTACH]

 

Alex

i see you are using the Intona, is that with the hard adapter straight from the Mac Mini? The hard adapter/Intona, which I think beats any short links - aka Curious Link. Music Just sounds right on the button with this combination. I have swapped out the Regen, and using RUR instead after Intona. A combination, which I think is pretty damn stunning at the moment.....I have yet to take the Intona out, as it will need to be shipped back for its firmware update - and yes for me the Intona, in the chain, improves over either using a single Regen and/or RUR.....

[warpeon]

I agree, it is a great combo. And our goal is to surpass it (which based on other enhancements, we already have with the protos).

 

Here is my set-up with the Intona and funny looking REGEN PCB (note the moat around the input jack).

 

This is NOT the announcement, but you guys make it hard to keep cats in bags. Due to significant parts costs increases (there are other surprise enhancements that will be revealed at official time and place), price will be $100 higher.

 

That's all I'm saying for now.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]24656[/ATTACH]

 

Alex, will you put me on the list now?

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SwissBear]

+1 for the Intona and Regen combo, it is one part of my chain that will not change for the foreseeable future unless unless Uptone come up with a surprise!!

I have not got around to the JK Regen mod yet and I should have as I was at a group meet where John had his first battery modded regen to compare against my Regen and there was no doubt as to how good it was and everyone at the meet could easily hear the difference.

Hi Sligolad,

Have you completely dropped your Mutec MC-3+ USB with the LPSU you had advised on TírNaHiFi.org | Hi-End HiFi in Ireland forum ? Why did you drop it ?

[sligolad]

Did JK run it with a Cuinas, & how did that sound? I'd like that mod here, to cf with lpsu, but not handy solder etc wise. I'm about to try the combo of macmini-Curious-Regen-Curious-Cuinas usb-spdif now that the curious links are fully run-in.

 

Gotta get an Intona it seems - but waiting on Alex & John! ...

We ran it into both a Lampizator 4.5 Dac and also a heavily modded Soekris DAC with battery supplies which one of the guys brought along.

A good linear supply will get you most of the way there so maybe wait for the Uptone supply coming soon if you are uneasy with soldering.

[sligolad]

Hi Sligolad,

Have you completely dropped your Mutec MC-3+ USB with the LPSU you had advised on TírNaHiFi.org | Hi-End HiFi in Ireland forum ? Why did you drop it ?

Hi SwissBear, Sad to say that I have dropped it again in favour of USB.

 

After I stripped out the Meanwell and went Linear I was very happy until I got the Intona ... and that has eased the USB connection ever so slightly back in the lead again.

 

I have gone back again recently and tried the Mutec with the Intona before it and it sounded just a little less smooth compared to the USB with the Intona.

I can only guess that the Mutec must add back a little noise after the Intona but this could be just down to my setup.

 

Can be a very unforgiving hobby/obsession at times but at least the music gets better :-))

[SwissBear]

Hi SwissBear, Sad to say that I have dropped it again in favour of USB.

 

After I stripped out the Meanwell and went Linear I was very happy until I got the Intona ... and that has eased the USB connection ever so slightly back in the lead again.

 

I have gone back again recently and tried the Mutec with the Intona before it and it sounded just a little less smooth compared to the USB with the Intona.

I can only guess that the Mutec must add back a little noise after the Intona but this could be just down to my setup.

 

Can be a very unforgiving hobby/obsession at times but at least the music gets better :-))

Thanks for answering :-)

[One and a half]

I can only guess that the Mutec must add back a little noise after the Intona but this could be just down to my setup.

 

Can be a very unforgiving hobby/obsession at times but at least the music gets better :-))

 

As more USB cables and fixers are added to the chain until the final destination whether it be a DAC or USB->S/PDIF converter, the hum (or ground loop voltage) on the cable shell increases relative to the source at each step. The ideal is to have 0V on either end of the USB cable chain, but we never get there, unless the insides of the source and destination are wired to have the same philosophy.

 

Or make a Music Server that stores music files with (balanced) analog outs and be done with all this.

[westy]

It seems most who own the Intona and the Recovery have the Recovery after the Intona. Has anyone tried the Recovery before the Intona? Or won't it work that way?

 

I now have the updated Intona, updated Recovery and Mutec MC-3+ USB . My source, a Bryston BDP-2 is in for repair and I'm dying to get it back.

 

So. I'm just wondering how to start the chain from the Bryston BDP-2 to my PS Direct Stream Dac.

[Superdad]

It seems most who own the Intona and the Recovery have the Recovery after the Intona. Has anyone tried the Recovery before the Intona? Or won't it work that way?

 

It should work, but it is really more optimal to have the better clocking after the Intona.

 

 

I now have the updated Intona, updated Recovery and Mutec MC-3+ USB . My source, a Bryston BDP-2 is in for repair and I'm dying to get it back.

So. I'm just wondering how to start the chain from the Bryston BDP-2 to my PS Direct Stream Dac.

 

My suggestion is: Bryston>Intona (right at the back of your BDP-2 if possible)>USB cable>Recovery>Mutec>PSA DAC.

 

Which input to your DS DAC are you using? Coax S/PDIF or AES/EBU S/PDIF?

 

And have you tried your DAC's USB input with just the Recovery into it? How does that compare to using your Mutec USB>S/PDIF converter?

[soundlogic]

Westy;

I'd be happy to try and answer your question, even though you have ignored all my pm'd questions to you...(Maybe I should have bought your used Intona that needed the firmware upgrade for your $350.00 asking price, but I decided to just go through Daniel at Intona, and get the upgraded version...sorry.)

I'm using my AURALIC Aries USB out to upgraded Intona to Rev. "B" W4S Recovery to PS Audio Directstream, all using Curious USB cables. Up tone Audio JS2 powers the Aries, and the Recovery.

The sound from this combo has knocked my socks off in every audiophile positive way.: tonal accuracy, soundstage depth width, bass depth and tightening, black background, etc. I reallly can't imagine things sounding much better. All sought after audiophile parameters were greatly improved. My speakers ar the Avantgarde Duo Omega's and they are literally an aural microscope for EVERY upstream change. I have been in this hobby for 40+ years, and have never heard digital sound so good...period! As a yard stick, I listen to vinyl through a tricked out VPI HRX, Dynavector XV1s cartridge, Manley Steelhead phono stage, Audio Resaerch Ref. 3 pre, and Audiopax model 88 tubed mono blocks. Suffice to say, I have hit a new high in MY listening pleasure with my digital streaming rig...of course, YMMV...

And, we've all said and heard this one before, but:

"I'm Done"...(for now)

Tim

[westy]

Superdad,

 

Thanks for the comments. I will be using the AES/EBU that seems to be where I have the best cable. I'm also using the Curious cables at all locations even with my External hardrive. I can't really say much more since the Bryston crapped out. I hope to get it back in a couple weeks.

 

Soundlogic,

 

Sorry, I am not that used to this site as I am with Audiogon (where my name is ozzy). I thought I have replied to any comments.

I still have the original Intona also and I'm using it when I download music from my laptop to the hardrive.

 

The Mutec is an interesting device but so confusing. Right now as I wait, I am transferring some of my SACD's and Shmns from my Oppo out via the Mutec to the Tascam at 24/192. Quite remarkable recordings, at least with using the Tascam digital out to the PS Direct Stream.

 

Hopefully once I get the Bryston and then connect the Intona, Recovery and Mutec these recordings will really shine.

[MingLee]

The Uptone audio regen is a gimmick and snakeoil "audiophool" product. This has been proven over at whatsbestforum where it actually causes increased jitter and 8khz packet noise. Alex said he would do a blind test and now he has backed out from it.

 

The intona is an actual real product solving real problems. So it gets my recommendation.

[JW Audio]

The Uptone audio regen is a gimmick and snakeoil "audiophool" product. This has been proven over at whatsbestforum where it actually causes increased jitter and 8khz packet noise. Alex said he would do a blind test and now he has backed out from it.

 

The intona is an actual real product solving real problems. So it gets my recommendation.

 

By making this statement you just called everyone that has used the Regen and benefitted from it all gullible fools. Nice first post.

[One and a half]

The Uptone audio regen is a gimmick and snakeoil "audiophool" product. This has been proven over at whatsbestforum where it actually causes increased jitter and 8khz packet noise. Alex said he would do a blind test and now he has backed out from it.

 

The intona is an actual real product solving real problems. So it gets my recommendation.

 

Who are you again?

[sandyk]

By making this statement you just called everyone that has used the Regen and benefitted from it all gullible fools. Nice first post.

 

I am even able to demonstrate that a CD ripped from an internal writer to a USB memory stick via an Uptone USB Regen, and either a 9V Linear PSU or a 9V battery derived supply, sounds better than the same CD ripped directly to the same USB memory stick. When the USB memory stick is then plugged into a Media player such as an Oppo 95 or 103, also via the Regen powered by the Linear or battery derived PSU, the difference in favour of the rip made using the Regen in line is even more marked !

A Bricasti M1 DAC further benefitted when using a USB Regen in line with the Bricasti's USB input at a listening session in Sydney where another C.A. member was also present. The difference became even more marked when the battery derived 9V Super Regulator supply was used instead of the supplied 7.5V SMPS.