Which one to buy: UpTone USB REGEN or Intona USB Isolator?

[AlainGr]

I have the industrial version of the Intona. From PeterSt recommendations, when I ordered it, I asked not to have the led blinking when playing music. Daniel of Intona graciously agreed to do this modification, so the led stays steady (no blinking) once Windows is loaded.

 

I haven't encountered any problem since I got it last Wednesday, but the Phasure NOS1, while requiring the USB handshake (this was at least true at the time I was using a Sotm USB 3 PCIe card, that I now have replaced with a Silverstone PCIe card), does not need the USB vbus at all after. Maybe that explains why I don't have any problem of the sort...

 

I hesitated before posting, since I read what many of you write regularly and I know that you are quite more experienced that I... There must be an explanation for these problems, but I suppose that the solution may not be to one's taste...

 

IIRC, Daniel talks about the potential problem of not having sufficient amperage and/or voltage when requiring the USB Vbus ?

 

At this time I have a 90 ohm iUSB blue cable (15 inch long) between the PC and the Intona, with a Phasure Clairixa USB cable.between the Intona and the Phasure NOS1. This, with Win 8 pro 64 bit plain vanilla (no update at all).

 

I know this does not help much to post this, but...

 

Regards,

[AlainGr]

Hi YashN,

 

See Intona High Speed USB 2.0 galvanic isolation, it will help to understand

 

But to summarize: Peter tried the Intona, but the first contact was not good. After reading here at CA about it, I came back to Peter. He communicated with Daniel (from Intona) and there was a back and forth exchance of communications. After that Peter received a new Intona Isolator and this time he really liked it. In his report he (Peter) suggests that we ask Daniel to do deactivate the blinking led when ordering, so he does it already.

 

But my guess is that you need to mention it, either by email or with instructions through Paypal...

 

It only blinks when the PC is turned on (at "full speed" > 12mbit), but as soon as Windows is loaded and the USB output is at its high speed (480mbit), the led stops blinking

 

I am not sure this is what you mean, but if I was to open it, I am sure I would make a mess and completely destroy it (by accident of course)

 

Regards,

[AlainGr]

Hi AlainGr,

 

It would be great if you could share your description of how the Intona affected the sound quality of your system.

 

Thanks.

Hi Cmarin,

 

As in many things I have tried through time, it did not come to me like night and day. There is a fluidity that I perceive, but it happened before (like with the Regen at first).

 

To give an example, I was amazed when I connected the Green Regen on my system, under Windows 8. Then I switched to Windows 10 (one of the preview versions) at the same time I received the Amber Regen board. That time, I was less sure of the results. Windows 10 does not sound the same as Windows 8, so... After a while, I removed the Regen and preferred to play music without it.

 

Each time I tried something with the Phasure NOS1, there was always a sense of "not sure", so I tend to prefer having just a USB cable between my music PC and the NOS1. In short, I prefer simplicity

 

I tend to not expect changes because my hearing is not that sensitive and it would not stand a DBT (it takes me too much time to sense a change), so I do not post often about my impressions.

 

The Intona really does something that I would qualify as "fluid". There is no "pros and cons". Maybe an example would be an optical signal ? "Silences are more silent", small details are more discernable. But the biggest aspect of it is that it feels as if there was something played in an analog fashion.

 

A good recording with percussions may express what I am trying to convey.

 

Time will tell if I will stay with these impressions. What I hear for the moment is simply better than what I was hearing before, but YMMV is as always.

 

If you go to the link I left in my previous answer to YashN, you will be able to read other posts and the little story behind it

 

Regards,

[AlainGr]

No, this isn't what I mean in my post, and the thread doesn't add anything to what I already know.

 

If we're going so far as to disable the blinking LED by disabling a circuit which makes it blink, why not remove the LED completely for better SQ.

 

Isn't that already clear here?:

Hi YashN,

 

Sorry, my bad. I don't know alas. I will point your post to Daniel (of Intona).

[AlainGr]

Hi Barry,

 

Have your tried this route: Macbook > cable > Intona > cable > USB 2 hub (itself powered) > cable > DAC ?

 

I know the chain is more complicated, but just to see if this is a voltage/amperage matter ?

 

Regards,

[AlainGr]

Hi Alex

 

I find Win 10 more musical than Win 8, but there is a "but"...

 

There has been lots of discussion on Phasure about the different builds that have spreaded over the months. Windows 10 is quite a moving target as it seems and there are aspects of it that makes me hesitate before switching to it on a more permanent basis.

 

I use a product called Acronis. This allows me to take an "image" of my OS and backup it on another disk drive. If something happens, I can always revert to Win 8.

 

The other thing is that the music PC I use is detached from Internet, preventing Windows 10 to do updates automatically. As I have read it, MS does not allow the user to control his updates anymore. There seems to be tools against this, but I am unsure up to which point they can block these updates.

 

Finally, I am also unsure if it is possible to revert to the prior Windows (maybe 30 days to do that, but you need to verify this).

 

At the moment, I stick with Win 8 (without any update), but I can go back and forth between them at will, since I have "image" backups...

 

And yes I know, MS can really be harassing with Windows 10...

 

Kind regards,

[AlainGr]

Are you saying you are not updating Win8 because of the automatic Win10 nag? If yes, simply choose view all updates and remove Win10 from the two lists (essential and optional).

Hi,

 

Not necessarily. I am also member of the Phasure forum, where PeterSt and many other members (including me) have experimented with windows 10. I did that for some time, but at some point, I was curious to switch back to Win 8. I will certainly go again with Win 10, as there is a ramdisk that Peter makes and this will put the entire OS in ram, allowing us to eject the SSD (so no hard drive functionning) while playing music. At the moment, I have my OS on an external SSD (connected through Esata, with no drive in PC), powered with a JS-2 from Uptone Audio and am very happy with that configuration. The music drive is connected through network from another PC, this with a direct network connection betwen the 2 PCs (and that drive is powered with a Teddy Pardo PSU).

 

Regards,

[AlainGr]

Back to topic.

 

In trying to install the drivers for the Mutec with the Intona connected, Device Manager reports the detection of the Mutec to be USB1.0, ie "Mutec 1.2 USB 1.0 " this is in contrast to the norm of "Mutec 1.2 USB2.0". This tells me there's a barrier between the USB Host and the USB audio device that doesn't click.

When that happens, the host controller in my case the Intel ICH10(?) picks a slower (USB1.0) port creating more drama. This is of little use, since the Mutec is normally a USB2 device and there's another ! in Device Manager.

 

I eventually tried a very simple adaptive DAC, April Music Stello 100, and Windows loaded the driver OK.

 

I'm finding the Intona Isolator not fit for purpose in that it does not pass UAC2, if it does, it's a one time only, whatever you do, don't reboot the computer.

 

 

I am sorry that you have these problems. Do you have a PCIe USB card ? Prior to that, have you contacted Daniel (of Intona) ?

[AlainGr]

Thanks. I will do the test on my music PC to verify if the same happens and will report.

 

Regards,

[AlainGr]

Hi Alain

 

This morning I left my Uptone Regenerator in the chain, removed my $15 VBus isolator and replaced it with the Intona USB isolator. When I did this I could see the DAC. In this case the Uptone was supplying all the power. When I took the Uptone out of the chain the DAC disappeared.

 

In addition I tried using several types of bus powered portable hard drives, all of these had power, were spinning, but would not mount. I'm guessing that mounting them required more power than was getting through the Intona.

 

The MSB DAC is bus powered, so I'm guessing the Intona does not provide enough power for the DAC to operate properly.

 

My current set up is Macbook -> VBus isolator -> USB cable -> Uptone Regenerator -> USB cable -> DAC

 

My question is: Does it make sense to replace the $15 Vbus isolator (which essentially just cuts off power on the cable leading to the Uptone regenerator) with the Intona, while keeping the regenerator in place?

 

I can't see that if I do this, the Intona is doing anything at all. As no power running along the first USB cable to the Uptone unit should be better than the lowered (but isolated) power if I use the Intona. Unless the isolated signal the Intona provides more benefit than just clean power (don't have the background in electronics to know).

 

It would be hard for me to test fairly as testing would require me to add an additional short Curious USB cable, the only extra cable I've got at hand is a 1 meter Nordost Blue Dawn (can't see this extra 1 meter cable addition as a good thing).

 

My conclusion is that the MSB analogue DAC can't be used with the Intona without additional power being supplied, which may make its use irrelevant.

 

Looking forward to the Forums members comments.

 

Regards

Barry

Hi Barry,

 

The difference between the Sbus Isolator and the Intona, assuming that the Sbus Isolator is right at one of the PC USB port output:

- Sbus Isolator prevents the 5V from PC to flow in the USB cable. That's it.

 

The Intona:

- cleans the 5V coming from the PC, then uses it in part and conveys the rest at its output for the next component.

- It also isolates the signal (data) between the PC and what comes after the Intona. This is where it delivers its "magic"

 

Between the Sbus Isolator (I admit I haven't tried it) and the Intona, I would give my preference to the Intona because of the galvanic isolation of the signal. As you see alas, it does not deliver enough power, needing something after to do that (like the Uptone Regen or a powered USB hub).

 

There will surely be a solution for this. It could be a "Y" USB cable after the Intona (signal connected to the Intona, power taken from a PSU of some sort), but...

 

As for the complexity of the USB chain, well...

 

Regards,

[AlainGr]

For those who would like to try the Intona with the Regen... This may sound a little against the recommendations, but trying the Regen before the Intona may possibly reveal something different ? I know this would probably cancel the value of improving the SI (signal integrity), but... Who knows... And the Intona would already get a cleaner power... I think I will get myself a strong coffee...

[AlainGr]

Hi Barry,

 

Just thinking... If the Intona already cleans the power already, maybe you may not need the Vbus isolator ? If you feel like it, you could test with and without the Vbus Isolator just to see if you really need it ? It's not a matter of price, since the Vbus is not expensive, but it has to do with all the connections ("ins" and "outs") that you have in the chain between your MacBook and the MSB dac... The idea is to have 90 ohms as much as possible in the chain, but the more connections you have, the more the probability that the impedance will be changed throughout the signal journey...

 

Just an idea of course...

 

Regards,

[AlainGr]

With the industrial version of the Intona, use of a VBUS isolator on the output side yields a very noticable SQ improvement with the Auralic Vega DAC. Despite the fact that the Vega does not need +5 volts, this behavior is consistent, with just a straight cable or with a generic hub, REGEN and now the Intona device.

 

 

Hi lmitche,

 

From my experience with my PC and the Phasure NOS1, all I have tried in the USB chain was always removed, due to degradation in SQ. And I could list what I have tried, starting from the PCIe USB card up to the NOS1.

 

What works for one may not work for someone else. It is with this in mind that I made a suggestion. It's not a rule, but from my experience (and apart from the Intona (industrial version)) it always sounded better without other components on the path.

 

So, maybe different components, different results ?

 

Regards,

[AlainGr]

Hi Alain, LOL - yes of course, but it is a bit tough for me to label the Sbooster VBUS isolator a component. It's more like an very short USB extension cable with one lead (pin 1) disconnected.

 

I can't opine on the benefits, if any, of the Intona "industrial" device yet. I haven't had the time for proper testing. The system does sound different with, then without. My vote is still out. I made a change in my system earlier this week that yielded the largest step change improvement in my system, ever. Because of this, I am having difficulty separating the benefits of this prior change from any benefits coming from the addition of the Intona box. Time will tell.

 

Anyway, in my one man audio universe as a rule the Vega ALWAYS sounds better WITHOUT the VBUS connector delivering power. YUMV.

Hi Lmitche,

 

Well yes the word "component" was not the right word for the VBUS isolator Sorry

[AlainGr]

Hi Alain

 

I'll certainly try this, without the Intona I was surprised at how much of a positive difference cutting off the power along the Lightspeed Harmonic made. Alex from Uptone thought the power running through the cable acted as an antenna which might pick up noise (this might occur whether the power was cleaned up by the Intona or not).

 

Regardless, I appreciate the advice and will try this as ears are the final judge of any of these improvements.

 

I'd love to be able to use the Intona alone, but alas with the MSB DAC this is not to be (sight...).

 

Regards

Barry

Hi Barry,

 

I understand the situation...

 

I will probably try the Sbus isolator myself (where did you order it ?). I am not sure if it will work here, since there seems to be a handshake between the PC and the NOS1 first, even if the NOS1 does not use the 5V...

 

Don't forget to leave your impressions, even if you do dot hear a difference

 

I am about to get a OS-ramdrive that will allow to load Windows all in RAM (from the SSD drive), then remove the SSD, so less spiky draws in PC. I am eager to receive it

 

Regards,

[AlainGr]

Hi Kilroy,

 

You may find more information about this here: Disk with Multi-RAM-boot available for purchase

There are other topics on the website about it, but it you write to Peter, he will certainly be happy to give more specific info (sales at phasure.com).

 

Regards,

[AlainGr]

Hi Alain

 

The Vbus isolator was ordered from a US Sbooster dealer. This was Pro Audio LTD.

 

i emailed [email protected] and dealt with Brian Tucker.

 

regards

Barry

Hi Barry,

 

I felt I was quite lazy to ask without having done my homework, so I got back to the main website and got another dealer (also in the US - there is not enough space for dealers in Canada haha), where I ordered it. I will report after I have the chance to play with and without.

 

I am actually playing with different adjustments with the software. With the Intona, I am still amazed at the musicality that it adds. I am eager to try the incoming Windows 10 as it will be on the OS ramdrive.

 

Ah...Will it ever end

 

Regards,

[AlainGr]

Does the Intona have provision for external power from, for example, an LPSU?

Hi Jud,

 

I wondered too if it was possible to have the Intona powered with a LPSU and for the moment the only way I can do this while using a "standard" USB cable would be to get something like this:

câble adaptateur usb-b pour alimentation externe jack 5.5/2.1mm

 

I intend to try this with a LPSU and will tell if it works (or not). It should take about 2 weeks (from experience).

 

For the moment, I use a standard USB cable (15 inch) that came with the iFi iUSB that I bought some years ago. The musicality I get with the Intona is so that the word that comes to mind is "naturalness". For example, the percussions show no granularity. I could put more adjectives to it, but I prefer to accentuate on the "absence" of signal pollution to summarize what it does.

 

Regards,

[AlainGr]

Or you could send it the signal from an LPSU-powered Regen you might have hanging around.

 

I tried the Regen (powered with a JS-2) between the PC and Intona, but it did not work at all. Maybe it was a matter of sequence (apply power), but I did not investigate further...

[AlainGr]

HI Barry,

 

Thanks for the report. It overlaps what I perceive.

 

Regards,

[AlainGr]

Hi Jjh1585,

 

I don't own a Berkeley Alpha USB, but from what I read on the Berkekey website, the USB receiver and processing are powered by the computer, meaning that the Berkeley needs the power from the PC.

 

It seems that the power and current coming out of the Intona output are not enough, creating this situation.

 

In this thread, there are also reports where some USB cables seems to deal better with this situation.

 

Daniel (of Intona) is supposed to check about this. I can't say when we will have a report about a solution.

 

My system does not use the power from the PC.

 

Regards,