Which one to buy: UpTone USB REGEN or Intona USB Isolator?

[tubesound]

I currently have an Empirical Audio Short Block USB Filter for common-mode noise reduction in my system and it made a nice improvement: Short Block USB Filter : Empirical Audio

 

I'm inspired by REGEN and Intona and want to add one of them into my system to further improve the sound.

 

My DAC doesn't need the +5V from the PC side, and so the USB power cleaning won't benefit me much. REGEN is more like an active device and it may have its own sound signature but having all good reviews. Intona (Intona ? Products) claims they achieved galvanic isolation in USB 2.0 high speed mode which makes them world first able to do that. Unfortunately, there's not much info about the details of Intona's design. As there's no off-the-shelf USB isolation chip for high speed, I suspect they implemented their own FPGA solution. From this post: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/intona-high-speed-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-isolator-25495/ I learnt that Intona stated the isolator has "probably industrial-wide lowest 8 kHz packet noise". That packet noise reduction is what REGEN is trying to achieve as well.

 

Cost wise, it will be US$196 for REGEN and US$258 for Intona (shipping to Canada included).

 

I'm leaning towards Intona but would like to get your inputs before making a decision.

 

Thanks!

[tubesound]

Check out Sonore website, they seems running promotion event and you get tX-USBhubEX in very reasonabl price, please check!

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/soul-music-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-hub-25762/

 

Many thanks for the recommendation.

 

After several email exchanges with Daniel at Intona, I've ordered their USB Isolator and I probably will receive it tomorrow.

 

My next DAC will not only provide filtered power internally to the XMOS chip but also have the I2S level galvanic isolation. I believe having the galvanic isolation upstream will further improve the sound.

 

I chose Intona over REGEN in that Intona does almost everything REGEN claimed to achieve and more. Intona have experts in high speed circuit design with many years of experience.

 

Stay tuned.

[tubesound]

Just found another isolator that supports high speed. The isolator(s) seems being a chip rather than in a readily useable form like Intona. Silanna is an Australian company: Isolator

 

Who's the world first? Not important to me.

[tubesound]

Had a brief listening session last night. The initial impression is very positive, quite contrary to the only review online I've found so far: High speed USB 2.0 galvanic isolation. The dropouts Peter experienced are probably due to the fact that Intona has only 300mA output on the isolated side and so if the DAC needs to draw a higher current, this can create a problem.

 

Anyway, first thing first, I can play 24/192 files via Intona and so it does support high speed.

 

The sonic improvements are not night and day kind of change but still easy to discern:

 

1. I hear more details.

 

2. The sound became less congested; for example, vocal and the accompaniment music are better separated.

 

3. The whole presentation of music is more delicate and calmer.

 

It seems the lower noise floor contributes to the above.

 

If this Isolator also has a break-in period, I expect things will be even better down the road.

 

Cheers!

[tubesound]

I've invited Daniel at Intona to participate in this thread so that he can let us know more technical details about this Isolator.

[tubesound]

Had some more hours listening through Intona over the weekend and I'm already certain Intona wins my pick for the Product of 2015.

 

I'd call Intona's world first standalone USB 2.0 high speed galvanic isolation device a breakthrough, similar to Gordon Rankin's programming for the asynchronous USB transmission. I felt we're bringing the digital audio playback quality another step closer to that of a great analog system.

[tubesound]

2016 on CA: usb centipede, feat. Intona-Jitterbug-Sbooster Isolator-Regen-Shadow Regen LPS-Curious cable in/out...

 

To be continued.

 

Haha.

 

Most of the time, more filters are not better. When I read that REGEN and Jitterbug complements each other, my reaction was that they both made design compromises.

 

To me, galvanic isolation is the most worthwhile thing to try for USB audio. Some higher end USB DAC's does galvanic isolation on the i2s level (after the XMOS chip). To me, upstream isolation makes more sense and probably will even improve the DAC's with downstream isolation. I'm getting such a DAC in a month or so and will find it out.

 

With galvanic isolation, I guess the variations in quality with difference PC and USB cable may be reduced significantly.

[tubesound]

+1

 

Or the never ending

 

The damn USB interface?

 

Roch

 

I think asynchronous USB is the best input for computer audio as it has the possibility to keep the jitter to the minimum because after the quality clocks (between XMOS which is mostly used USB receiver chip and the DAC chip), the audio signal is fed into DAC chip directly. Many higher end DAC's do galvanic isolation between XMOS and clocks.

 

USB to SPDIF converters eventually need to feed signals into a SPDIF input which usually uses a receiver chip. The lowest intrinsic jitter of these chips that I know of is 50ps. So the lower jitter you achieved in the converter may be just wasted unless the DAC also does the asynchronous clocking for the SPDIF input instead of using the PLL in those receiver chips. However, these converters also do other things in addition to reducing jitters, say cleaning USB power and galvanic isolation (on i2s level), and so we hear people say quality converters improve sound. To me, Intona is a more economical way to achieve the similar results.

[tubesound]

In use, should the Intona device be closer to the source or the DAC?

 

Would this make the Regen, Jitterbug et al. redundant?

 

If a DAC does not need the 5V line, should it be cut-off at the source, or does it not matter? (My DAC does not, and I block it at the server.)

 

I put Intona close to the DAC side. I use a male A/male B adapter similar to REGEN's to connect the Intona to DAC and this ensures the shortest distance for connection between the two.

 

Whether REGEN, Jitterbug et al. become redundant depends on actual experiment, I suppose. For example, REGEN may not be a true passive device. In addition, the aforementioned devices do not do galvanic isolation. Unfortunately I don't have these devices to try out.

 

My understanding is that Intona also does USB power filtering. But if your DAC doesn't require the +5V, I think you won't get any benefit from USB power filtering. However, I do see explanations on the "dirty" USB power may affect the integrity of data transmitted in the USB cable (may not be the 1's and 0's but the timing). I suppose Intona should take care of this issue.

 

Daniel, could you offer some insights?

[tubesound]

Just did two experiments.

 

First, comparing a generic USB cable with an audiophile grade USB cable (not very expensive; it's a Bona made in Taiwan) connected from laptop to Intona. Without Intona, I used to be able to tell the difference easily (Bona is way better) but now with Intona, I cannot discern any obvious difference. This verifies my suspicion that Intona will make USB cable less important.

 

However, between Intona and DAC, the USB cable quality may still make a difference.

 

And so, I tried this connection: Laptop > Generic USB Cable > Intona > Bona (instead of the Male A/Male B adapter) > DAC. I prefer the adapter. I think the shortest connection distance achieved by using the adapter contributes to the better sound. And the adapter may avoid another impedance mismatch problem (that Intona has just corrected for you).

[tubesound]

I had a chance t briefly use the Itona USB isolator and all I can say is wow .

An inexpensive e way to add galvanic USB isolation to my Yggdrasil .

 

I have used a lot of tweaks and this one is the best one I've used thus far in tweaking USB .

 

What are the other tweaks you tried before? Did you try other tweaks together with Intona and observe any incremental benefits?

[tubesound]

Can someone please state the differences between standard and industrial model?

 

The use will be in a dedicated server and dac. USB only.

 

Thanks

 

The differences are listed on Intona's website and I repeat them here:

 

Standard Version: 1kV isolation, standard temperature grade, standard connectors

Industrial Version: 2.5kV isolation, specified isolation working voltage, extended temperature grade, high retention connectors

 

For audio use, standard version is sufficient. However, as you read there're incompatibility issues related to some DACs/USB converters and so you'd better check with Daniel at Intona before you buy.

[tubesound]

btw, also tried a USB A-B adapter and it didn't work.

 

This sounds weird to me. If a short USB cable worked for you, the adapter should work too unless this adapter is faulty.

[tubesound]

i know. maybe i didn't connect them in the right sequence. didn't really test too much with the adapter since i no longer need a USB hub. I don't like the idea of using the adapter on the DAC or the source as there is a big risk to damage the connectors.

 

You may use stuff under and above Intona to secure it from moving (dragged by the upstream USB cable). I found the adapter sounds better than using a USB cable between Intona and DAC.

[tubesound]

With Intona, the perceived difference between great recordings and mediocre ones became larger. Is this an indication that Intona brings the sound "truer" to the orinigal recording mixed in the studio?

[tubesound]

FWIW : That is not my experience about such things. As a matter of fact it is the other way around - what's generally perceived as mediocre recording, often is about less hassle applied to the (digital) chain and that now being better and therefore more difficult to let excel. Think e.g. better dynamics because of less compression, while better dynamics first require a playback chain which can follow.

 

Well, I'm talking about the delta. Great recordings just became greater and made me feel mediocre recordings more mediocre.

[tubesound]

Found a pic for the internal view from here: Intona High Speed USB isolator! - Page 4; isolation is provided through Silicon Lab's Si8660.

 

[tubesound]

The proper name is "recovery USB reclocker" its for USB device

 

And the Recovery USB Reclocker doesn't do galvanic isolation. From the description, I think it's more similar to REGEN rather than to Intona.

[tubesound]

The Sony's replacement arrived last week, a Lenovo m93p, tiny thing it really is, a little less than a Mac mini in size, except the power supply is rather half the size...! That machine also accepted the Intona/Mutec combo with any cable I could throw at it, finally settled on Nordost Blue Heaven input and output. Sound is just superb!

 

 

Technology doesn't sit still, great minds must think alike and develop ideas at the same time. Mutec have released their USB to 5 way AES3, S/PDIF, AES3id, Optical et al converter, Mutec MC-3 + USB. This device isolates the USB to the other outputs to 2500V. Throw in a super clocking mechanism discussed here at CA of a sister product, and there's one less cable to buy...! USB straight into the Mutec and out with super reclocking, yum. Does this get any better?

 

Sounds like Mutec MC3+ USB does galvanic isolation at the i2s level. Intona's upstream isolation still provides benefits.

[tubesound]

For various reasons I have not posted at all in this thread, even though REGEN is in the title. Yet by the way, I too bought an Intona--s/n 53--(though it needs firmware upgrade as it is very finicky with my XMOS-input DACs and some cables).

 

Just to be clear though, the Intona's sole and very effective (audio-interest) function of galvanic isolation does not duplicate or obviate the REGEN's function of improving USB signal integrity and impedance match (or the REGEN's secondary function of providing very clean VBUS power to DACs that need it).

 

And given that the Intona has a single clock oscillator--located on the dirty input side--for the entire device (for both PHY chips, both FPGAs, and fed over the isolator), and that the SilLabs TX/RX RF-type isolator and the FPGAs each add jitter (350ps for the SiLabs alone), the output of the Intona really does benefit from the clean reclocking/generation of the USB signal the REGEN offers.

 

Thus the ideal set-up (short of having a galvanically isolated version of the REGEN) is to place the Intona before a REGEN. Then you get the unique benefits of both. That's what I think quite a few folks are doing--with stellar results.

 

Intona deals with packet noise and impedance matching too.

 

This post reported he preferred Intona alone to the (REGEN+Intona) combo: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/which-one-buy-uptone-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-regen-or-intona-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-isolator-26815/index5.html#post498892

 

Another post said Intona bettered his REGEN with Neutron Star Clock mod: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/which-one-buy-uptone-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-regen-or-intona-universal-serial-bus-industry-standard-cables-connectors-and-communications-protocols-between-computers-and-electronic-devices-isolator-26815/index8.html#post502815

[tubesound]

Today I received my USB Hi-Speed Isolator Standard and I plugged it in like this:

 

Mac Pro > A+ > Audioquest Forest USB > HRT Streamer HD > (Amp+Speakers) >Forza Audioworks FAW Copper Series USB > USB Hi-Speed Isolator Standard

 

Any typo here? Why Intona is sitting at the end of the chain?

[tubesound]

Just received the Intona and with a cheap usb from macmini to intona and my TotalDac D1 from intona to the Chord Hugo, no problems what so ever and immediately the results were nothing short of amazing... anyone with an Hugo should check the Intona, you will not regret for sure!... still in disbelief in the magnitude of the effect...

 

How does Intona+D1 combo compare to Intona alone?