PlayClassics test files to compare file formats

[Jud]

So, here is a question. How would those results have differed if (if at all) if my hearing range was closer to, say, 15khz? Is there any correlation?

 

If you had that hearing range *and if* you had a particularly quiet system and room *and if* you had a great deal of experience listening to filters, you might discern either or both the slight Protools aliasing or the slightly lower overall energy at high frequencies. The latter (overall frequency balance) I think takes a high degree of training/expertise to hear, particularly in the upper frequencies where hearing is less sensitive if we can hear at all.

[Sal1950]

If you had that hearing range *and if* you had a particularly quiet system and room *and if* you had a great deal of experience listening to filters, you might discern either or both the slight Protools aliasing or the slightly lower overall energy at high frequencies. The latter (overall frequency balance) I think takes a high degree of training/expertise to hear, particularly in the upper frequencies where hearing is less sensitive if we can hear at all.

 

Lots of IF's, plus the big one you missed. IF the listener isn't being fooled into thinking he's hearing a difference do to expectation bias or some related illusion.

Mainly the subject lacks just about any relevancy in the real world. Only one in about 10 million have the tools to hear the difference if it does exist and even less would ever care.

[PopPop]

If you had that hearing range *and if* you had a particularly quiet system and room *and if* you had a great deal of experience listening to filters, you might discern either or both the slight Protools aliasing or the slightly lower overall energy at high frequencies. The latter (overall frequency balance) I think takes a high degree of training/expertise to hear, particularly in the upper frequencies where hearing is less sensitive if we can hear at all.

 

I don't have any of those arrows in the quiver. From here on, I will probably put more effort into finding well recorded music and stop worrying about chasing magic in 24/192. And speakers, yeah, that's it! I need new speakers!

[Sal1950]

I don't have any of those arrows in the quiver. From here on, I will probably put more effort into finding well recorded music and stop worrying about chasing magic in 24/192. And speakers, yeah, that's it! I need new speakers!

That's the best decision you could make. I'll normally only buy 24/96 if like Mario's they came from a 24/96 or better original master. I've purchased maybe a dozen or so total out of the thousands of albums in my collection. There's nothing to be gained by putting a analog master into a big digital bit bucket, well mastered CD's are just fine for that.

[semente]

So, here is a question. How would those results have differed if (if at all) if my hearing range was closer to, say, 15khz? Is there any correlation?

 

Not with Mario's recordings, as they have little information at 15kHz (and even that is very low in level).

Here's the spectrogram of the Flamenco:

 

 

R

[semente]

Edit: Sorry, I forgot above to include the very few studios like Blue Coast, which edit in analog rather than converting to PCM.

 

Is this analogue editing done before A/D conversion?

 

I haven't listened to the samples but judging from these photos their studios don't look like a place I would choose to record music.

 

 

 

Even if they use the "best" equipment and practices (although I wouldn't call close-mic'ing a "good" let alone "best" practice), their recordings can never sound as "good" as PlayClassics'.

 

R

[Jamesroy]

If you had that hearing range *and if* you had a particularly quiet system and room *and if* you had a great deal of experience listening to filters, you might discern either or both the slight Protools aliasing or the slightly lower overall energy at high frequencies. The latter (overall frequency balance) I think takes a high degree of training/expertise to hear, particularly in the upper frequencies where hearing is less sensitive if we can hear at all.

I do have a good ear even at the age of 68.

[firedog]

That's the best decision you could make. I'll normally only buy 24/96 if like Mario's they came from a 24/96 or better original master. I've purchased maybe a dozen or so total out of the thousands of albums in my collection. There's nothing to be gained by putting a analog master into a big digital bit bucket, well mastered CD's are just fine for that.

 

Except that I've found lots of cases where the hi-res remaster is the best souding one around, even when the master is tape.

And the CDs aren't available where I live, so I'd rather download than order online and pay for shipping of CDs, even if the total CD costs a bit less.

[Teresa]

Except that I've found lots of cases where the hi-res remaster is the best sounding one around, even when the master is tape...

 

I agree with this. Older analog tapes do often have audible artifacts due to their age, however I find the hi-res remasters often sound more analog like, thus more like what I remember my prerecorded 7½ IPS reel to reel tapes sounding like.

 

On the other hand, DSD and hi-res PCM downloads from modern new analog recordings such as those from Opus 3, Blue Coast, Tacet and others I would put up against any digital recording no matter how high the resolution.

[Allan F]

I haven't listened to the samples but judging from these photos their studios don't look like a place I would choose to record music.

If you haven't listened, you are not really in a position to judge the sound quality of their recordings, are you?

[kumakuma]

That's the best decision you could make. I'll normally only buy 24/96 if like Mario's they came from a 24/96 or better original master. I've purchased maybe a dozen or so total out of the thousands of albums in my collection. There's nothing to be gained by putting a analog master into a big digital bit bucket, well mastered CD's are just fine for that.

 

I think it depends what kind of music you listen to.

 

I have hundreds of classic Jazz albums from the Analog Age where the high definition version kicks the crap out of all available CD versions. The recent high def releases of Kind of Blue (both PCM and SACD) and the ongoing 24/192 Blue Note reissues are just a few examples.

[Sal1950]

Except that I've found lots of cases where the hi-res remaster is the best souding one around, even when the master is tape.

And the CDs aren't available where I live, so I'd rather download than order online and pay for shipping of CDs, even if the total CD costs a bit less.

 

 

I think it depends what kind of music you listen to.

 

I have hundreds of classic Jazz albums from the Analog Age where the high definition version kicks the crap out of all available CD versions. The recent high def releases of Kind of Blue (both PCM and SACD) and the ongoing 24/192 Blue Note reissues are just a few examples.

 

There's always lots of exceptions to everything. When the original recording has been remastered before the hirez release all bets are out the window. Some remasters are brilliant, others have been done with commercial concerns only and have a DR7 dynamic and are bright enough to burn your ears off.

Then you can only either read the reviews or roll the dice and purchase the release.

It's hard not to genealize too much without writing a whole book on the subject

[徐中銳]

If you haven't listened, you are not really in a position to judge the sound quality of their recordings, are you?

I haven't listened to the samples but judging from these photos their studios don't look like a place I would choose to record music.

 

Sure, let's be fair to people who judges with their ears, here's the links he didn't provide :

Special Event 37 - Jenna Mammina & Rolf Sturm

Special Event 6 - Garett Brennan

[Jud]

Artists are often far more varied and inclusive than fans, especially fussy ones like audiophiles. Mark Knopfler bounces most if not all the songs from analog to digital on albums very well thought of by audiophiles and producers.

[semente]

If you haven't listened, you are not really in a position to judge the sound quality of their recordings, are you?

 

I can only make general considerations based in my listening experience and a little common sense, but any audiophile knows the importance of room acoustics.

Unfortunately the theme of mic'ing is not very discussed, despite its extreme importance.

 

R

[semente]

Artists are often far more varied and inclusive than fans, especially fussy ones like audiophiles. Mark Knopfler bounces most if not all the songs from analog to digital on albums very well thought of by audiophiles and producers.

 

Here we are discussing ways to reduce the number of up/oversampling and filtering steps and the studios are bumping the signal about with little worry...

 

R

[PopPop]

Sure' date=' let's be fair to people who judges with their ears, here's the links he didn't provide :

[/font']Special Event 37 - Jenna Mammina & Rolf Sturm

 

Jenna. [emoji173]️[emoji173]️

[Allan F]

I can only make general considerations based in my listening experience and a little common sense, but any audiophile knows the importance of room acoustics.

Unfortunately the theme of mic'ing is not very discussed, despite its extreme importance.

IOW, you are merely speculating and have no real evidence to back up your 'judgment', something that could easily be confirmed or dispelled by actually listening.

[semente]

IOW, you are merely speculating and have no real evidence to back up your 'judgment', something that could easily be confirmed or dispelled by actually listening.

 

This is what I said/wrote:

 

I haven't listened to the samples but judging from these photos their studios don't look like a place I would choose to record music.

 

Even if they use the "best" equipment and practices (although I wouldn't call close-mic'ing a "good" let alone "best" practice), their recordings can never sound as "good" as PlayClassics'.

 

I don't really want to have to sign up for free downloads but I might only to prove my point (although you will still disagree).

 

The room or rooms shown in the pictures are obviously not adequate for recording and close mic'ing (whilst useful for "disguising" some of the room's problems) places the mic much closer than anyone would listen.

 

Such recording setup might sound "nice" for rock/pop standards but is far from being able to achieve the results that Mario is getting with his.

 

R

[Allan F]

The room or rooms shown in the pictures are obviously not adequate for recording and close mic'ing (whilst useful for "disguising" some of the room's problems) places the mic much closer than anyone would listen.

For all we know, the photos could be from a setup for the recording of a 'live' performance outside the studio. Those who are familiar with Blue Coast recordings can attest to the outstanding sound quality that Cookie Marenco produces. IMO, comparisons to Mario's results are of little importance in that regard.

 

"The proof is in the pudding".

[Jud]

This is what I said/wrote:

 

 

 

I don't really want to have to sign up for free downloads but I might only to prove my point (although you will still disagree).

 

The room or rooms shown in the pictures are obviously not adequate for recording and close mic'ing (whilst useful for "disguising" some of the room's problems) places the mic much closer than anyone would listen.

 

Such recording setup might sound "nice" for rock/pop standards but is far from being able to achieve the results that Mario is getting with his.

 

R

 

I very much enjoy Cookie's production as well as Mario's, though I recognize other people will have their own likes and dislikes. Each emphasizes different aspects of production: Mario would not mike or set up a room as Cookie does; Cookie would not (normally) record to PCM as Mario does.

[Allan F]

I very much enjoy Cookie's production as well as Mario's, though I recognize other people will have their own likes and dislikes. Each emphasizes different aspects of production: Mario would not mike or set up a room as Cookie does; Cookie would not (normally) record to PCM as Mario does.

As Barry Diament has posted on more than one occasion, mike setup is an artistic decision made by the producer and there is no 'right' or 'wrong' setup. Choice of recording format is also an artistic decision. Barry and Mario record in PCM. Cookie's preferred format is DSD. Again,

 

"The proof is in the pudding".

[JSWolf]

Forget the photos. Just listen to the music. Do you like the way it sounds? IF so then there is nothing to complain about.

[Sal1950]

Lots of people running their yaps and posting pictures on stuff having nothing to do with Mario's reason for the thread. You got no reason even posting here if you haven't at least downloaded the files and tried to participate in the poll.

[semente]

Lots of people running their yaps and posting pictures on stuff having nothing to do with Mario's reason for the thread. You got no reason even posting here if you haven't at least downloaded the files and tried to participate in the poll.

 

If these tasteless "yapping" comments are directed at me, they're completely off mark for I was the first to comment on the differences I have or have not heard between the files.

 

I didn't download the sample files from Blue Coast though because you're obliged to register to do so and I am getting enough spam as it is.

I had never heard of Blue Coast before and after seeing it mentioned here I surfed a bit around their website.

 

To finalise, I don't think that comparing Mario's work with that of others is out of the scope of this topic.

 

R