Should I use SOtM In-Line SATA Power Noise Filter for CD ROM as well?

[ElviaCaprice]

Finally, After a month of an effort, this computer is getting some where, still waiting for a power supply and components for custom filters.[ATTACH=CONFIG]22737[/ATTACH]

 

 

Start Date 11/1/2015 Completion Date 12/25/2015

HDPLEX 2nd Gen H5 $288.00

HDPLEX 300W ATX Linear Power Supply $695.00

SuperMicro Motherboard X11SAE-F $250.66

Intel® Xeon® E3-1275 v5 processor $347.97

32GB Kit (16GBx2), 288-pin DIMM,

DDR4 PC4-19200, ECC

(CT2K16G4WFD824A) $274.95

Samsung SSD (MZ-7KE1T0BW) 850-PRO 1TB $390.75

Samsung SSD (MZ-7KE256BW) 850-PRO 256 GIGB $119.00

JCAT Audiophile PCIe to USB Audio Card $437.00

PCIe Cable $25.00

SOtM In-Line SATA Power Noise Filter $78.20

Custom In-Line SATA Power Noise Filter $60.50

Windows 2012 R2 $427.54

Aodiophile Optimizer $129.47

JRiver $49.98

HQPlayer $143.85

Total $3,717.87

 

Have you thought about how your going to connect your HDPlex 300W PS up? Are you going to share rails?

[trcns]

I have both, as you recommended from Panasonic X Pro series and I have them in fairly larg quantity, I just wanted to know if one has advantage over the other?

[sandyk]

I have both, as you recommended from Panasonic X Pro series and I have them in fairly larg quantity, I just wanted to know if one has advantage over the other?

 

The larger voltage version in the same series will always have a lower ESR , and better ripple voltage specifications.

[trcns]

"Have you thought about how your going to connect your HDPlex 300W PS up? Are you going to share rails? "

 

I have no clue what it means, what are these rails?

 

All I know is that according to Larry (The Seller) it comes with all the necessary cables.

[ElviaCaprice]

"Have you thought about how your going to connect your HDPlex 300W PS up? Are you going to share rails? "

 

I have no clue what it means, what are these rails?

 

All I know is that according to Larry (The Seller) it comes with all the necessary cables.

 

To be honest, I'm not too sure myself. Something to do with isolating any feedback power from separate components, so as to not contaminate other components on other rails. Each rail having it's own clean power regardless of other rails.

Here is the HDPlex forum thread on the matter of the 300W PS. I also would like some further clarification on the matter, was hoping you could shed further light.

http://www.hd-plex.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2453

 

Since your using Sata power filters you probably have nothing to worry about in your setup. As long as your covered with a clean rail for your USB card?

[trcns]

Lets ask the seller. Give me few min. He answers very fast.

[ElviaCaprice]

Lets ask the seller. Give me few min. He answers very fast.

He's answered me a couple times but without really answering my questions. Maybe I don't ask the right questions or use the correct language?

[trcns]

I just glanced the site with the link "http://www.hd-plex.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2453"

 

This is what I found

 

There are five independent rails on the 300W.

They are 3.3V/5V/9V-adjustable/12V/19V.

 

In other words, if you have a PPA/SoTM card, a sata drive and something else that uses between 5-9 Volt, you have to put two devices on the same rail. Likewise, if you have two devices or more on the 12V, they'll share a rail.

 

For me I have One 19V Motherboard connector and One 12 Volt CPU connector which I am not sharing.

 

I have JCAT USB card which has 5 Volt through adjustable 5 to 9 volt supply, which will not be shared.

 

Now I have Two SSD drives which will share the Power, but for them I bought SOtM power filter and now I am building two based SandyK's design.

 

I bought this power supply a month back still waiting hopefully will get it before the new year.

[ElviaCaprice]

I just glanced the site with the link "http://www.hd-plex.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2453"

 

This is what I found

 

There are five independent rails on the 300W.

They are 3.3V/5V/9V-adjustable/12V/19V.

In other words, if you have a PPA/SoTM card, a sata drive and something else that uses between 5-9 Volt, you have to put two devices on the same rail. Likewise, if you have two devices or more on the 12V, they'll share a rail.

 

For me I have One 19V Motherboard connector and One 12 Volt CPU connector which I am not sharing.

 

I have JCAT USB card which has 5 Volt through adjustable 5 to 9 volt supply, which will not be shared.

 

Now I have Two SSD drives which will share the Power, but for them I bought SOtM power filter and now I am building two based SandyK's design.

 

I bought this power supply a month back still waiting hopefully will get it before the new year.

 

Yes, BUT, the 5V DC and 12V DC rails are shared with the ATX 5V and 12V, the 3.3V is only ATX. So basically you have two rails only that are independent DC rails, the 9V adjustable and the 19V. I've read that thread over and over and was trying to clarify that this IS the case with Larry with no straight answer in reply. I still would like some verification. Like, does an ATX 24pin connection use the the 5V rail, 12V rail and the 3.3V rail? Is the 12V 5V ATX sata connector use the same 5V rail as the ATX 24 pin and the 5V DC?

 

Like I said, your covered with the SOTM power filter which I want to avoid with 4 drives. Really, your going to use the 19V for a Pico? connection to your motherboard? I would just use the ATX 24 pin connector. To me the ATX 24 pin LPS is first and most important thing about getting an ATX linear supply. Otherwise I would just use non ATX linear supplies with a Pico. Power everything separate.

[ElviaCaprice]

Larry is the man, received this reply in email. Looks like my worries are solved!???? Comments from others welcome.

 

"5V and 12V rails are sharing the same rail from the transformer. But they are controlled repeatedly(5V and 12V for ATX output are controlled by TI chip) and have separate protection in/out circuit.

 

 

My engineer said the 5V rail for ATX and DC output are separated by MOSFET and would never have bad spike feedback into each others loop.It is theoretically impossible.

 

Larry"

 

Here was my questions:

~"Hi Larry,

I understand what all outputs are on the HDplex 300 LPS. But that's not my concern, it's the shared power rails that is. In your forum post you state that the 5V and the 12V rails are shared by the ATX and DC outputs. Are you saying now that the 5V DC output is on a separate rail than the ATX 5V output? I am concerned about power spike feedbacks from the HDD's getting into the Mobo. I really need to separate the HDD's to their own rail or PS so as to not contaminate the Mobo. Also a clean source, not contaminated is needed for my PPA version 2 card. I am getting one clean rail for sure with the 9V variable output set to 5V on it's own rail. Where do I get a second isolated rail so as to power the (4) 5V HDD's without the use of any SOTM filters.

Thanks Mark"

[trcns]

SOTM USB power filter verse SandyK's recommended circuit.

[sandyk]

trcns

Are the parallel capacitors on both sides a low ESR type in parallel with a normal type? It's a little hard to tell from the photo as low ESR types are often a little wider. I would expect that the through hole chokes will have a lower series resistance than SM types of the same value. There were a couple of reports originally about the original SOtM SATA filter sounding a little too exaggerated with high frequencies.

 

Alex

[trcns]

I am not sure, here are the specs.

 

They are rated Panasonic X-PRO For Audio Series Aluminum Electrolytic Capacitors.

 

Recommended Applications

Ammplifier, CD Player, Hi-FiVTR,Car Audio, Electric piano.

 

Features

Large capacitance for power supply. Powerful and tight rhythm.

 

[Vinyl sleeve and mark] Colour: Deep Green. Marking: Golden.

 

[Place of origin] Japan

[Tolerance] M

[Temperature rating] -40-105 °C

[Case Status] Very clean

[Production date] Not earlier than 0602

--- from Panasonic DATASHEET

[Physical size] D:12.5mm * H:40mm * PCM:5mm , Weight: 7.8g

[Actual measurement parameters] CCapacity: 4610uF D: 0.153 ESR: 0.044 Q: 6.5 ----all test at 120Hz

 

Here is the EBAY link where I purchased them

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/261688853981?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[davide256]

As I said previously, the differences are likely to be subtle unless the rest of the chain is very good, but it's the increased isolation from the main supply that appears to matter most, with the main supply being more isolated from the varying current requirements of the CD/DVD Rom. Even with SSDs, improving their isolation from the main power supply, whether Linear or SMPS, offers real benefits. For SSDs I use the +12V supply regulated to a cleaner and more stable +5V supply. Another member has previously verified in a post, about the improvement from doing this, even though he was already using a Linear PSU.

I have further improved over the original C-L-C filter by using a form of shunt regulator for both the +12v AND +5v supplies to my internal LG BR writer.

The C-L-C filter shouldn't cost too much to try, and see whether it further improves results.

Alex

I used 2 SoTM SATA filters a while ago in a PC enclosure... they didn't add much sound improvement and were fragile. +1 to Sandyk's advise that power supply matters more, using battery or external power supply to isolate drives from CPU/memory power supply does make an audible difference

[sandyk]

trcns

While they will undoubtedly work, I specifically chose to exploit the characteristics of both low ESR and normal type electrolytic capacitors to ensure an extended HF response without accentuating upper HF detail.

Yes, it DOES matter with supplies for digital areas too , but I will not discuss this further with the usual suspects !!!

If you have 2 spare 100nF capacitors you may be able to improve HF detail a little by soldering a 100nF capacitor across one of the 4,700uF electrolytic capacitors on each supply rail under the PCB

 

Alex

[trcns]

I am sorry I am little slow in understanding, as I am not this technical. But if you are saying these capacitors are not low ESR's, what do you think about the capacitors in the link below? I am at the point where cost is not an issue, so please advise the best solution.

 

8pcs NEW 4700UF 16V 105C PHILIPS 058 105C LOW ESR HI END CAPS FOR AUDIO !!

 

And yes I have about 15 more 100nf capacitors. 6 more 100uf capacitors, I have 7 more PCB's and so on.

[sandyk]

rafi

Why don't you initially try the board with a couple of 100nF tacked across underneath as suggested, and see if there are any audible improvements from having it in circuit, before chasing low ESR electrolytic capacitors. The amount of audible improvement will be entirely system dependent.

 

Alex

 

P.S.

Something like Panasonic FC 4,700uF 16V may be a better choice for the low ESR types, and they are also readily available on ebay.Their wire leads will also may them easier to use.

[trcns]

I added one 100nF capacitor between two the 4700uf 16 volt capacitors on each side of the circuit. But I am not sure if I noticed any improvement in the sound quality, if there is a change, it must be very nominal.

 

Over all the music is very clean crisp, mostly I play a light and Jazz music and very little classical.

 

Now as far as request equipment? (I have, Bel Canto uLink USB to Digital converter connected to McIntosh MX 121 Processor connected to Krell S1500 Seven channel Power Amp connected to B&W *802 D2 speakers. Speaker Wires are from Tara Lab the 2 series, interconnect are Cristal Micro series. The only week link was the computer which I just upgraded, only part missing is a 300W linear power supply which is not released yet. I am expecting it in next two weeks.

[sandyk]

Over all the music is very clean crisp, mostly I play a light and Jazz music and very little classical.

 

Hi Rafi

Is that an improvement over no inline filter ?

 

Regards

Alex

[trcns]

The honest answer will be I don't know. And the reason is that I have to play same tracks at least three or four time without and than with filter. I did not exercise this.

 

What I know is that replacing my old computer Lenovo Q180 with this new one made such a big difference that even my wife was impressed.

[ElviaCaprice]

The honest answer will be I don't know. And the reason is that I have to play same tracks at least three or four time without and than with filter. I did not exercise this.

 

What I know is that replacing my old computer Lenovo Q180 with this new one made such a big difference that even my wife was impressed.

 

Congratulations Rafi,

You have quite the configuration of PC components put together. I too am waiting on that HDPlex 300W ATX LPS, shall be nice to see how well it contributes to the SQ. Look forward to your observations. I asked Larry to change the 19V DC output to 5V, so as to power my 2.5" HDD's & any other non streaming devices separately from a different rail. Also I asked him to change the variable output to go down as low as 5V to give me another output for the OS drive, although I plan on trying an M2 SSD in addition for comparison (If SQ is worse from M2 I 'll just use it as an additional OS drive for video and audio mastering work). I should be able to power everything from the 300W LPS. I am just as concerned about video/multimedia playback SQ.

So I am looking at the current build with integrated graphics:

H5 encasing

300W LPS

AsRock Z170 Pro4S ATX (this may change for a H170M, I don't need overclocking)

Crucial DDR4 2133 (2X4)

Intel Core I7-6700 65W

Samsung 950 Pro M2 256GB

PPA USB V2 (already have in current build)

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[trcns]

Elvia: if you don't mind please send me, what you asked Larry, I will make a same request to him.

 

I did not buy M2 storage because some body on this site said we cannot filter the power, though the speed is much faster.

 

If you have enough funds and want to experiment than try Intel 750 PCIe ssd. While I was buying these components I could not find the power cleaner for PCIE bus, but now I see, it's in the market and looks very good.

[ElviaCaprice]

Elvia: if you don't mind please send me, what you asked Larry, I will make a same request to him.

 

"Hi Larry, as we discussed. I would like to have the 19V converted to 5V for my 4 (5V) hard drives. I would like to have the adjustable DC, adjusted down to 5V for my OS SSD. I will use the 5V for the PPA usb card. I may use the 12V for an extra Regen, but not necessary. Please adjust needed chords accordingly from what I need and don't need. Looks like I will need 3 of those 5.5/2.1 Molex cables, two of which I or you will add sata plugs onto. If I can get 4 Sata plugs on the converted 19V, would be nice. Can never have too many. Thanks again Larry, email me with any further questions please."

 

I did not buy M2 storage because some body on this site said we cannot filter the power, though the speed is much faster.

Rafi, you are correct. But we don't know for sure how this will effect sound because no one has tried. I think one should assume it is not good. Thus I am not sure if I should even attempt a motherboard with this feature, I keep swinging back and forth on the notion. I may just go for a Skylake H110 board instead. Also I found another Intel I7 processor that has a TDP of 35W, 6700T, I may use this processor instead and try for as low power of a setup as possible with integrated graphics.

 

 

If you have enough funds and want to experiment than try Intel 750 PCIe ssd. While I was buying these components I could not find the power cleaner for PCIE bus, but now I see, it's in the market and looks very good.

 

I didn't see this possibility? Please tell me more about how this PCIE bus can be powered separately. I take it thru a riser card or cable? I would rather use a PCIe 3.0 rail for this possibility, to power separately a SSD OS.

[sandyk]

"Hi Larry, as we discussed. I would like to have the 19V converted to 5V for my 4 (5V) hard drives. I would like to have the adjustable DC, adjusted down to 5V for my OS SSD. I will use the 5V for the PPA usb card. I may use the 12V for an extra Regen, but not necessary. Please adjust needed chords accordingly from what I need and don't need. Looks like I will need 3 of those 5.5/2.1 Molex cables, two of which I or you will add sata plugs onto. If I can get 4 Sata plugs on the converted 19V, would be nice. Can never have too many. Thanks again Larry, email me with any further questions please."

 

This will most likely result in much greater heat sinking demands, as the 19V rail would have been derived from a supply voltage of several volts higher than the desired 19V output. You could end up dropping more than 17V in each voltage regulator, with each of the 4 x 5V outputs requiring say 1A maximum each. If the 19V output is not required, it would be far better to use a lower voltage transformer.

[trcns]

I was looking for this card and got to the Blog, where you can see the whole conversation and users comments

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f6-dac-digital-analog-conversion/$40-pci-pcie-power-filter-16186/