PlayClassics master file giveaway for CA members

[Mario Martinez]

Closing my eyes while listening, I felt closer to the actual performance than on any other piano recordings I have.

 

it's amazing to truly feel like you were there in the room with the performer

 

Thank you so much!

Bringing the performance to your space is the main purpose to all our doings

[Mario Martinez]

I have uploaded 24/48 and 16/44 versions of all the albums to our webpage.

 

If you find this useful I will be happy to send you a new code so you can get the lower resolution versions of the albums you downloaded.

[Mario Martinez]

So here is another weekly report

 

We have given out 122 albums so far: 62 for Albéniz Iberia, 25 for Cabrera plays Debussy, 19 for Debussy Préludes, 9 for Chopin Polish Songs and 7 for Songs of Paolo Tosti. In addition to the albums, we have also given out 53 of the flamenco samples.

 

We are currently offering 24/96, 24/48, 16/44 and two sets of MP3 files (one without dynamic range compression, and one with dynamic range compression). If you find this useful I will be happy to send you a new code so you can get the lower resolution versions of the albums you downloaded.

 

I want to thank you all for your wonderful feedback. These testimonials are a great help. I am really grateful for this

[Mario Martinez]

Thank you for listening, I just sent you the code, enjoy !

[Mario Martinez]

Anybody else wants to try?

[Mario Martinez]

I'd like to give "Cabrera plays Debussy" one last try.

Unfortunately I had 2 unsuccessful attempts.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

Sorry about that, I just sent you a new code.

Please let me know if it worked so I can further assist you.

[Mario Martinez]

We have got some new samples !!

 

Yesterday, we had a local drummer come into our studio and improvise some solos for us.

 

The drummer is Carlos Javier García Magaña. The make of the drums is Gretsch and the model is Renown '57.

 

We recorded these drums the exact same way we record everything else. The only thing that is different is the fact that we had to lower the mic gain by 24dB because the drums were so loud

 

Just like we did with the flamenco samples, everybody is welcome to download these drums samples. Who wants to try first?

[Mario Martinez]

Thank you, I just sent them all.

[Mario Martinez]

Here is the sketch of the drums recording: The proportions are real. The blue area represents the stage. The person in red represents the microphones.

 

 

 

 

The drums are Gretsch Renown '57. The cymbals are Zildjian K series.

The mics are 7'8" away from the bass drum (ORTF setup)

[Mario Martinez]

Interesting that you put the mike behind the drummer. That explains why the positions seemed mirrored from a typical setup.

 

Yes, we placed the drums so that the drummer's back would be facing the mic setup. He suggested we do it this way to hear the cymbals and drums placed relative to his playing position during playback.

[Mario Martinez]

I know, ...I think I should ask the whole rock band to come in and record a full song

[Mario Martinez]

The purpose of these drums samples is not to produce a "rock" sound.

 

We are not trying to record the drums, we are trying to record the sound of the hall. We built the acoustics of our hall to make chamber music recordings on a documentary manner. We know this hall can also be used for other things like flamenco and I am sure it would work the same for things like jazz or blues, but what happens if you go one step further and you try to record something like rock? Well, that is precisely what I am trying to find out by making these samples. One thing I am sure of is we are not going to get anything similar to the sound of commercial rock. But I thought it would be fun to try and see what happened.

 

We have recorded the drums the same way we record everything else. We have used the same fixed setup (stage-hall-mic) and the same fixed recording chain (from mic to master) as we always do without any dynamic range compression. The only thing that is different is the fact that we had to lower the mic gain by 24dB. So please keep in mind that what you are hearing is the sound of a rock drum set played on the stage of a chamber music hall. It is obvious that the result of this particular recording is going to be very far away from what you would expect from a regular "rock" recording.

 

I was inside the hall while the drums were being recorded and I can tell you that the sound of the recording is just as true to the sound of the hall as the sound of the piano recordings is. The balance and the tone of the recording corresponds with what the hall did with the drums. That does not mean that the sound on the recording is desirable, it just means it is "natural". But, while you might like that "natural" quality on the piano recordings, you might hate it on a drums recording.

 

I think this is an interesting experiment. I myself find the result quite "pleasant" to listen to. I think whether you like it or not depends more on what you expect from it than on what it really is. We are all used to listening to drums recorded in an extremely different way. Lots of mics very close to each drum piece with lots of compression recorded on dry environments. It is not wonder we are going to find this recording strange.

[Mario Martinez]

Yes, the body of the drummer was blocking the mics view of two of the drums completely. The drums that were affected are the ones in red:

 

 

I think you can appreciate this on the recording.

[Mario Martinez]

It sounds almost as if someone tweaked up the recording level just a bit right near the 1 minute mark.

 

I can assure you nobody touched anything

 

That effect around the 1 minute mark is just the result of the drummer hitting harder and maybe in a slightly different sport of the membrane which produced both a higher volume with a slightly different tone. If we were editing that is probably the kind of thing that we would have edited out.

 

We are not using dynamic range compression so that makes this kind of "accidents" really hearable. The use of dynamic range compression does not just allow for a higher playback volume, it also helps mask minor volume unevenness on the instruments.

 

One interesting thing about these experiment is how it affected the drummer himself. He had never been recorded this way. He had always been recorded using multiple close mics with lots of compression. When you apply that much compression to an instrument you are making it very difficult for the performer to try to create layers of sound. It is very interesting to see how as he progressed further in the recording session he started to experiment more with this kind of layer effect. He heard the playback of each improvisation right after he played them. So my guess is he realized that there was room for that possibility and he tried to take advantage of it. You can tell that at the end of the third take (after minute 3:36) he was already experimenting quite a bit with these layer effect.

[Mario Martinez]

About the decay on the drums recording:

 

The acoustics of our hall have been specifically calibrated to work with instruments such as the ones used on chamber music. The decay on our recordings is a product of this calibration process. We manipulated the hall until we got something that was usable under any chamber music circumstance.

 

Now, here we are playing rock drums. I can tell you they are loud. The fact that we had to lower the mic gain by 24dB has a great impact on the relationship of the direct and wet sound the mics pick up from the hall.

 

Yes, the drums are 24dB louder than the instruments we usually record, but those 24dB are not homogeneously distributed across the spectrum. In the other hand, when we lower the mic gain we do lower 24dB homogeneously for the whole spectrum. This is one of the main reasons why this recording sound this way in relation to the decay of cymbals and balance between cymbals and drums.

 

If we did use dynamic range compression this would not happen. DRC dynamically reduces just the part of the spectrum the has the highest power without necessarily reducing other frequencies. So applying DRC to this recording would bring out those cymbals and decay but doing that would not be "natural" any more.

[Mario Martinez]

Please Mario, don't take my comments for criticism or as suggesting they needed fixing.

 

I did think the cymbals were a bit less sparkly than a live drum set from say 15 feet away. But I was not there in the hall and you obviously were.

 

My comments about a little compression and EQ were more an example of how people get on the slippery slope of trying to make it "more pleasing" or "more natural" than reality with good intentions.

 

It is interesting, that I could apply the EQ I talked about and do a 3:1 compression and get very much that punchy sparkly Rock drum sound. It still was cleaner and more pleasing than heavily manipulated recordings, and added some of the space of the hall back in. People who want that artificial effect could get it this easily. Instead conventional wisdom is don't try and record a Rock drum set with less than 8 mics close in.

 

I understand all of this was an experiment on your part, and meant no criticism of what you are doing. I am privileged that you made these available to us. Thank you for doing so.

 

 

It is my pleasure to be able to share these with you. Really

[Mario Martinez]

It would be helpful if Mario could define whether or not the mentioning of recordings originating from other sources can or cannot be used in this topic.

 

Yes, of course, please go ahead. I am sure that will be very useful

[Mario Martinez]

LOL, Yea I just did that tonight. I had ELO Alone in the Universe in the cue after Marios files. When the track changed I about had a coronary.

 

Yes, please, be very cautious with this as I would not want to give anybody a heart attack. Sorry Sal

 

 

Mario’s piano and tenor tracks are -20/-20 and the drum track -7/-7.

 

There is a 24dB distance between these drum tracks and all our other recordings. If you wanted to play these drum tracks at a realistic volume you would have to play them 24dB higher than the piano and tenor track. Obviously I do not think anybody should try this because it would probably be dangerous for your hearing and your system. That is way I was saying that those drums were really really loud.

 

So, if you are playing the drums at -7, then you are hearing the cymbals 11dB below their realistic volume. I think that might be the reason for you perceiving that the cymbals are lower than they should.

 

One thing you could do to see if this is what is actually happening is play the drum tracks at -7 and then play the tenor and piano at -31dB. That would be the relative realistic level between these two recordings. This might help you perceive what the real level of the cymbals was. It might also help realize how tremendously loud the drums were.

[Mario Martinez]

Happy new year to all of you !!

 

I would like to share a new sample. This time we recorded some rock.

 

Here is the sketch for the recording. From left to right it is drums, electric bass, and electric guitar.

 

 

The drums are Gretsch Renown '57. The cymbals are Zildjian K series. (same as in the drums sample)

The guitar is a Gibson Les Paul with Humbucker pickups and a Boss GT-10 pedal.

The amp is a Marshall JCM2000 TSL100 with a Marshall 1960A cabinet.

 

We have recorded this sample the same way we record everything else. We have used the same fixed setup (stage-hall-mic) and the same fixed recording chain (from mic to master) as we always do without any dynamic range compression. The only thing that is different is the fact that we had to lower the mic gain by 24dB. So please keep in mind that what you are hearing is the sound of a rock band playing on the stage of a chamber music hall. We are not trying to record the instruments, we are trying to record the sound of the hall.

 

Who wants to try this one?

[Mario Martinez]

Hi Andy, I just sent it to you, thanks for listening

[Mario Martinez]

Absolutely, Mario, would love to try it.

 

Edit: I don't see a bass guitar/amp description.

 

 

 

I am on it. I will post it as soon as I have it

[Mario Martinez]

Here is the info about the electric bass:

 

The bass is a Yamaha TRB. The amp is a Mark Bass TSA500. The cabinet is a Mark Bass New York 804.

[Mario Martinez]

I have been asked and yes, we are still giving out codes for the albums. This is how we are doing so far:

 

We have given out 133 albums: 67 for Albéniz Iberia, 27 for Cabrera plays Debussy, 20 for Debussy Préludes, 12 for Chopin Polish Songs and 7 for Songs of Paolo Tosti. In addition to the albums we have also given out 62 flamenco samples, 18 drums samples and 7 rock samples.

 

If you do not have an album yet please go ahead and ask for one. And if you are interested in the experimental samples please go ahead and ask for them I will be happy to send them to you.

 

Thank you all for listening, this is a wonderful experience

[Mario Martinez]

to my taste at least, for future such recordings the bass must be louder with respect to the other instruments. In the couple of sections where the guitar and drums held back, the bass playing was beautiful, but when the guitar and drums were full out the bass got somewhat lost in the background.

 

Something similar happened with the flamenco samples:

The purpose of our setup is to record the musical event exactly the way it happened, it is a documentary approach. This type of recording is very demanding on the musicians. Here the artists are responsible for the balance between instruments, just like they would be in an acoustic live performance without any amplification. Once we capture that performance, there is nothing we can do to alter that balance. The artists have to be able to control their dynamics to balance out the performance for themselves.

 

Classical music artists are used to doing this. They do it at every performance. But what happens when you try to record other genres?

 

Flamenco is usually recorded using close miking techniques. They are used to having the engineer balance their performance at the mixing table. They were here for just one hour trying things out. They ended up making the recording this way to try to compensate for the fact that her voice was not so big and the guitarist sound was big. So the sketch is correct, the singer was closer to the mics and the guitarist was further back. Had they been here long enough, I am sure they would have been able to balance themselves to be able to sit next to each other on the stage.[/Quote]

 

For the rock sample, I think this bass problem could have been fixed by experimenting with the gain and eq settings on the bass amp. The amp allows for low, mid-low, mid-high and high frequency adjustment. The sample you are listening to was recorded with the settings they always use for their gigs. If we were to record an album we would need to take time to adjust the settings to get the bass to sound just right on our hall. By what I have seen and learned with this experiment, I think they could easily achieve this. It would just take a little time for them to get used to this approach.

[Mario Martinez]

I am coming to this thread quite late, but, if the original offer still is open, I would love to have the Cabrera Debussy album. It's a hard call, because I love both Albeniz and Debussy, so I tossed a coin. Thank you.

 

Thanks Mike, yes, the offer is on, I just sent you the code. Enjoy!