PlayClassics master file giveaway for CA members

[esldude]

I wonder if people listening to this music are playing at high enough volume. Remember you need to crank it up by 24 dB. If your system can do it cleanly this recording rightly sizzles with lifelike energy. Turn it up only half this much and it is lackluster.

 

Which is an example of why such music needs compression in most cases. You couldn't play this loud enough in a car. With reasonable compression you could and get a sonic impression generally like the real thing. Or even in your quiet listening room it gives close to the right idea at lower volume.

[Sal1950]

Could you name those "2 microphone" recordings?

 

R

 

David Manley's ViTaL Recordings

Although not single stereo mic recordings they are live direct to 2 track pure tube analog recordings and the finest sounding analog recordings I've ever heard.

manley recordings

 

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue12/jsmanley.htm

 

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue58/manley.htm

 

David was a engineering genius that designed and built every piece of equipment in his recording chain and of course the father of VTL and Manley electronics, plus ViTaL records. Be sure to own at least one of his releases.

[francisleung]

The “after measurement” versus “original” drum track 3.

I personally like track 3 more than the other two and it is this one that I have compared, A/B listening for a handful of times.

I did not follow what exactly “after measurement” means and what Mario has done to the track. It is now this version that I have put into the playlist, displacing the original track.

The original track has the snare and cymbal grouped into one pool of sound whereas the toms and the kick drum grouped into another.

The “after measurement” has all of them grouped into the same pool, with each contributing its own sound into the pool from their respective positions within the soundstage.

[richard kimber]

I enjoyed the Albeniz. Sounded good, but I'd really like to hear some orchestral music to make a real judgement. I suppose that's beyond your resources???

 

Actually, I'm really waiting for some really high quality opera recordings, especially Verdi. But these are few and far between; mostly nowadays we get re-issues of '70s recordings. Again, I suppose it's a cost issue.

 

- Richard.

[Mario Martinez]

I did not follow what exactly “after measurement” means and what Mario has done to the track.

 

The point of this experiment is to try to find out how other genres sound when recorded with the Truthful Recording Technology.

 

This technology requires that we calibrate the recording setup (stage, hall and mics) and the recording chain (from microphones to master) to deliver a flat frequency response. This calibration is what makes the sound on the recording true to the sound of the instruments.

 

Our calibration provides a flat frequency response at chamber music volume levels. These rock instruments are 24dB louder. At those levels this calibration does not deliver a flat frequency response any more. We need to use this "after measurement" filter to keep it flat. So this "after measurement" version is the truthful one.

 

Now that we have a truthful drums and rock sample we can proceed with the experiment

[Mario Martinez]

I wonder if people listening to this music are playing at high enough volume. Remember you need to crank it up by 24 dB. If your system can do it cleanly this recording rightly sizzles with lifelike energy. Turn it up only half this much and it is lackluster.

 

Yes, you do need a huge amount of power to make it sound right. These recordings do not have any dynamic range compression but, more importantly, they do not have any low cut filters either and they do have an insane amount of energy under 100Hz.

 

I am going to try to make a normalized version just like I did with the classical music. All we did for the normalized version of the classical music was apply a little bit of dynamic range compression, enough to rise the level of the recording by 7 or 8 dB. I will do the same for this drums and rock samples, but this time I think I should also apply a low cut filter somewhere around 80 to 100Hz.

 

I will post as soon as I have something

[francisleung]

Thank you Mario for explaining "after measurement".

[semente]

I have been listening to Tindersticks' "Curtains" with my wife who's a huge fan of the band.

I had forgotten that the last track was, if I remember correctly, recorded live in a single take with no processing (I don't have the booklet with me to confirm this though) and it's "raw" sound is not that far from what Mario has been producing, though my guess is that the former was made in a "brighter" sounding room.

 

R

[semente]

I was referring to "Sleepy Song", the last track of the "2nd Album", not the last track on "Curtains":

 

 

R

[Mario Martinez]

Yes, you do need a huge amount of power to make it sound right. These recordings do not have any dynamic range compression but, more importantly, they do not have any low cut filters either and they do have an insane amount of energy under 100Hz.

 

I am going to try to make a normalized version just like I did with the classical music. All we did for the normalized version of the classical music was apply a little bit of dynamic range compression, enough to rise the level of the recording by 7 or 8 dB. I will do the same for this drums and rock samples, but this time I think I should also apply a low cut filter somewhere around 80 to 100Hz.

 

I will post as soon as I have something

 

 

I just uploaded a normalized version of the drums and rock samples.

 

I did apply that low cut filter I was talking about and it does make all the difference. I also applied a limiter and brought the volume 8dB up. I think this time we might be on to something

 

Who wants to try?

[Jud]

I just uploaded a normalized version of the drums and rock samples.

 

I did apply that low cut filter I was talking about and it does make all the difference. I also applied a limiter and brought the volume 8dB up. I think this time we might be on to something

 

Who wants to try?

 

Me.

 

Can you also please open up the version with the louder bass but no filtering applied? I never did download that one, and I'd be very interested in comparing it to the others.

 

Thanks, Mario!

[LarryLegg]

I would like to try the normalized version and compare.

[francisleung]

I just uploaded a normalized version of the drums and rock samples.

 

I did apply that low cut filter I was talking about and it does make all the difference. I also applied a limiter and brought the volume 8dB up. I think this time we might be on to something

 

Who wants to try?

 

Also for me please. Thanks.

[firedog]

Sure, this is fun. Send me the new version.

[esldude]

I'll try the new version too. Thanks.

[Solstice380]

I can only say that I wish commercial recordings could get drums to sound like this, where the cymbals sound like real brass and not a blast from a air hose. The inner detail of being able to hear the different tuning of all the drum heads in the kit is as good as I've ever heard.

Excellent sounding work!

Thanks for including me.

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]23675[/ATTACH]

 

+1 on all three comments here. The first thing I felt upon hearing the first effort on the rock trio was how exceptional the drums and cymbals sound. Made me think of the Track record and the Jim Keltner solo on one of the Stereophile test CDs. We got into mixing after that and, yes, it sounded better or more like a rock mix. I haven't heard the "filtered" track but it was headed in the right direction after the re-record. I thought the comment of not knowing about he knobs and stuff from the bassist was funny!

 

Very nice recording space you have developed. Thanks for inviting us in.

[Mario Martinez]

I just sent you all the codes. Thanks for listening

[Sal1950]

I may be running at the edge of my expertise but I'll be glad to give a listen Mario.

[francisleung]

"normalised" drum track 3

For my personal taste, the cymbals and drums are now balanced, with the gain of the former being raised relatively much higher now. At the present level, more details are being heard and I would say this track is a real test for an audio system's high, mid and low frequency capability. The drum set sounds so real to me!! I think this track is especially useful for assessing the transient response of an audio system--the rise and decay. Also imaging of the drum set is of proper size. I think many of the high end systems I have come across won't be able to pass both of these counts.

BTW, the overall gain is higher; for the "after measurement" version, I set the level to -7 and for this new one, I need to reduce it to -9.

This track displaced the Sheffield Lab drum record track which is now to be reserved for comparing with its direct to disc uncle only.

Listening to the different versions, I have learned from Mario how a recording could sound so differently by applying different adjustments.

If Mario gives the flamenco track the same "normalisation", I think it may become another gem.

[esldude]

"normalised" drum track 3

For my personal taste, the cymbals and drums are now balanced, with the gain of the former being raised relatively much higher now. At the present level, more details are being heard and I would say this track is a real test for an audio system's high, mid and low frequency capability. The drum set sounds so real to me!! I think this track is especially useful for assessing the transient response of an audio system--the rise and decay. Also imaging of the drum set is of proper size. I think many of the high end systems I have come across won't be able to pass both of these counts.

BTW, the overall gain is higher; for the "after measurement" version, I set the level to -7 and for this new one, I need to reduce it to -9.

This track displaced the Sheffield Lab drum record track which is now to be reserved for comparing with its direct to disc uncle only.

Listening to the different versions, I have learned from Mario how a recording could sound so differently by applying different adjustments.

If Mario gives the flamenco track the same "normalisation", I think it may become another gem.

 

I agree with your description of the sound, but you bring up what is to me an interesting conundrum. While it sounds now like it is a great test of an audio system's transient response, the rise and the decay it is less than it was before. If you were to match peaks upon playback, the transients before this latest processing would be steeper, and the decay would drop more quickly than it does in the current version. I know it sounds more energetic and difficult for a system, but it is in fact less so. The limiting etc make it have an average loudness which is higher and sound punchier. What it really means is the difference between peak and lower levels is pushed closer together. Transients are less steep.

[francisleung]

Hi esldude,

I take your point from a technical assessment that the transients of the present “normalised” version are less sharp than the previous “after measurement” version.

Let me explain from an observational and practical point of view.

In the previous version, the cymbals and high-hat sound was at a relatively low level even when the kick drum was already “comfortably” loud. So unless the gain in an audio system is turned to a deafening loud level, the cymbals and high-hat wouldn’t sound live or loud enough for easy perception of their details. But then for sure I would not try to raise the gain to such a revealing level when evaluating a friend’s system or an importer’s showroom system because that may entail damage to a driver in the speakers or even an amplifier. In this regard the previous version may only be useful for testing the response of a system in relation to the snare, toms and the kick drum, but not the transient response of the cymbals and high hat.

Now in this “normalised” version the cymbals and high hat sound has been raised to a high enough level, I am able to hear and discern more details from them. As much as the transients may well be less sharp than in the previous version, they are there aplenty and the track may now be used safely to evaluate the whole spectrum, including the high frequency performance of an audio system.

[esldude]

Hi esldude,

I take your point from a technical assessment that the transients of the present “normalised” version are less sharp than the previous “after measurement” version.

Let me explain from an observational and practical point of view.

In the previous version, the cymbals and high-hat sound was at a relatively low level even when the kick drum was already “comfortably” loud. So unless the gain in an audio system is turned to a deafening loud level, the cymbals and high-hat wouldn’t sound live or loud enough for easy perception of their details. But then for sure I would not try to raise the gain to such a revealing level when evaluating a friend’s system or an importer’s showroom system because that may entail damage to a driver in the speakers or even an amplifier. In this regard the previous version may only be useful for testing the response of a system in relation to the snare, toms and the kick drum, but not the transient response of the cymbals and high hat.

Now in this “normalised” version the cymbals and high hat sound has been raised to a high enough level, I am able to hear and discern more details from them. As much as the transients may well be less sharp than in the previous version, they are there aplenty and the track may now be used safely to evaluate the whole spectrum, including the high frequency performance of an audio system.

 

I think I get what you have in mind. And just listening it sounds quite apparent. But that is the gotcha with such evaluation. Yes, you hear more, but it is because of the foibles of hearing that really it is less. The transient response of the high hat and cymbals has in fact been reduced. It was so quick before your hearing almost misses it. Now that it has been 'slowed' in its rate of change your hearing catches more of it and hears more of what went on. Sounds like a much better way to evaluate, but that is illusory. A system could pass this version and fail on the original.

 

Which is all okay. It is important not to make decisions about 'transient' response this way because it will lead you astray in the ultimate transient ability of your system.

[semente]

I just uploaded a normalized version of the drums and rock samples.

 

I did apply that low cut filter I was talking about and it does make all the difference. I also applied a limiter and brought the volume 8dB up. I think this time we might be on to something

 

Who wants to try?

 

Can I get the codes please?

 

Thanks,

Ricardo

[goldsdad]

I just uploaded a normalized version of the drums and rock samples.

 

I did apply that low cut filter I was talking about and it does make all the difference. I also applied a limiter and brought the volume 8dB up. I think this time we might be on to something

 

Who wants to try?

 

Yes, please!

[mansr]

I just uploaded a normalized version of the drums and rock samples.

 

I did apply that low cut filter I was talking about and it does make all the difference. I also applied a limiter and brought the volume 8dB up. I think this time we might be on to something

 

Who wants to try?

 

I'd like to have a listen.