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Someone has asked me if we have considered using this technology to record other genders like Jazz. We have tried it with Flamenco. We recorded some straight takes and it worked just the same. I cannot see a reason why it would not work with Jazz.

 

If someone is interested on listening to these flamenco files please tell me so. I will be happy to send them to you. May be we could convince them to record a whole album !

 

I'd definitely like to listen to them.

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Ok, I just sent them all...

 

When you listen to these flamenco samples please keep in mind that we were just trying things out, we were not trying to record an album. These are just straight takes (live) with no editing whatsoever.

 

Whatever you were doing, it sounds amazing. Who are the artists?

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Interesting how quiet the recording is too. My system can play at full bore on quieter recordings, and I didn't realize I had maxed out my volume until I looked after the last song. I got curious and used the db meter in my iPad. The quieter sections were around 33db at my listening position (that evening with nothing playing, I measured 31db). Now, I felt there was still a noticeable dynamic (mainly note decays) even at this low level, which is not something I'm used to. Fortes were peaking in the low 80s, which has more to do with the gain structure my system has, but means there are about 50 db of clean range here. I'd love more producers to be exposed to recordings like this. Donation is on the way!

 

There's no (or very little) dynamic range compression applied to these recordings. Across the entire album, the RMS level is about -30 dB and peak level -0.18 db. Most albums have only 20 dB of peak to RMS difference.

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Hi Semete,

Thank you for your response in regard to the positioning of the two images in the sound field. I have listened to Mario's track again two times and found the female voice still behind. Have also compared with two other flamenco tracks and found the jaleadores cheering from behind as well. Because Mario's tracks were recorded with two microphones and did no subsequent tampering and even no adjustment of gain for left and right, I posted the question to him.

Based on the setup sketch, the correct audio reproduction should have the voice in front, positioned at the speaker plane (she is standing at the edge of the stage) and the guitar some two feet behind. I have them the other way round, voice behind and guitar in front.

I use multiple quasi ribbons for the midrange and multiple ribbons for highs, all flat facing with no toe-in. Not commercially available.

By the way, do you find the sound of the track not left and right balanced, that is, voice and guitar to one side and not in centre of the soundstage? I need to adjust the gain when listening to it, but not necessary for the Iberia piano track.

 

With my B&W CM6 S2 speakers, I hear the guitar about 1/3 of the way in from the right and the singer just left of centre. Can't say the singer appears in any way behind the guitar.

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Thanks Mansr.

I take it your speakers have the voice and guitar appear at about the same horizontal plane. Please refer to the setup sketch at post no. 137. I was expecting and hoping to have a correct reproduction of the voice being in front and the guitar two ft or more behind. What i got was the other way round.

 

Yes, what I hear more or less matches the sketch. The voice isn't obviously closer, but it's definitely not behind. Knowing the setup could of course be influencing what I'm hearing, but I hadn't seen the drawing the first time I listened, and I don't recall perceiving it differently then.

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  • 3 weeks later...
We have got some new samples !!

 

Yesterday, we had a local drummer come into our studio and improvise some solos for us.

 

The drummer is Carlos Javier García Magaña. The make of the drums is Gretsch and the model is Renown '57.

 

We recorded these drums the exact same way we record everything else. The only thing that is different is the fact that we had to lower the mic gain by 24dB because the drums were so loud :)

 

Just like we did with the flamenco samples, everybody is welcome to download these drums samples. Who wants to try first?

 

I'm not first, but I'd still like to try.

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We have got some new samples !!

 

Yesterday, we had a local drummer come into our studio and improvise some solos for us.

 

The drummer is Carlos Javier García Magaña. The make of the drums is Gretsch and the model is Renown '57.

 

We recorded these drums the exact same way we record everything else. The only thing that is different is the fact that we had to lower the mic gain by 24dB because the drums were so loud :)

 

Just like we did with the flamenco samples, everybody is welcome to download these drums samples. Who wants to try first?

 

Excellent quality. The positioning of the individual drums and cymbals is as distinct as if they were right in front of me.

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Here is the sketch of the drums recording: The proportions are real. The blue area represents the stage. The person in red represents the microphones.

 

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]22764[/ATTACH]

 

 

The drums are Gretsch Renown '57. The cymbals are Zildjian K series.

The mics are 7'8" away from the bass drum (ORTF setup)

 

Interesting that you put the mike behind the drummer. That explains why the positions seemed mirrored from a typical setup.

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As my MacBook Pro and its iTunes does not play flac files, I need to change the drum tracks to wav format by a software that does not change the absolute phase, the likes of XLD, Audio Inventory or MAX.

 

Huh? Converting FLAC to WAV shouldn't change anything at all, ever. If there's a change, the conversion software is horribly broken.

 

apart from the high hat (a minute into the track) being on the left (should be on the right if the drummer is facing the audience) and this few listener will care anyway,

 

Mario explained in an earlier post that the mikes were behind the drummer, so that positioning is expected. I wonder what the drummer's body does to the sound of the drums immediately in front of him though, especially the high frequencies.

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NOTE: Don’t go a shorter route by creating a playlist for the two tracks and play them from there. It is because the playlist CHANGES the PHASE of the tracks!

 

That makes no sense. Are you saying iTunes alters the audio somehow if playing from a playlist but not when playing an album?

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Hi Francis. Are you referring to phase because you are speculating that is the reason, or because there is some specific information you know? If the latter, what would that information be?

 

It would be trivial to capture the digital output of both playback setups and compare them.

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Nowadays, phase change is recognised and you will find in high end pre-amps and DACs a phase change switch. I understand phase change is NOT measurable by instruments.

 

If it can be changed by a switch, it can obviously be measured. I'd capture the S/PDIF or Toslink output of a computer playing a file one way, then the other. If the outputs are identical, the software certainly didn't do anything differently. I don't have iTunes, or I'd do it myself.

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It would be very helpful if you could give specific examples of how to elicit this effect that you have found to be repeatable. If so, then there would be specific experiments that could be performed to measure and document the polarity reversal, for example by capturing the signal sent to a DAC under both circumstances.

 

This is certainly possible, because all things are possible with software (although nothing is easy). It seems rather implausible, because normal bugs would not reverse polarity in any digital signal processing that I've ever looked out. But who knows?

 

I've done a fair amount of work on audio codecs, and accidentally inverting the polarity is actually quite easy (and even easier to spot if you compare the output to a reference digitally rather than merely listening to it). However, having a the polarity flip depending on whether a high-level playback manager is working off an "album" or a "playlist" seems exceedingly unlikely.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
I just uploaded a normalized version of the drums and rock samples.

 

I did apply that low cut filter I was talking about and it does make all the difference. I also applied a limiter and brought the volume 8dB up. I think this time we might be on to something :)

 

Who wants to try?

 

I'd like to have a listen.

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