Article: Schiit Audio Yggdrasil Multibit DAC Review

[Ran]

Excellent review, thanks. The need for a DSD DAC is not dire since many applications can transcode DSD to PCM on the fly.

[likethesoup2]

Bit depth is not solely about dynamic range. Its more importantly about information density, the ability to more accurately reproduce a complex mixture of instruments and their overtones than a lesser bit depth.. So I am skeptical about any manufacturer whose philosophy is bit depth only matters to 21 bits. I believe the more honest answer is likely to be that current technology makes it challenging to make a commercially viable better offer over 21 bits, that this is related to why DSD is in vogue.

 

Perhaps it would behoove you to reread:

 

Making a judgement on a DAC's superiority or inferiority based on the number of bits advertised is foolish. For example, a 24 bit DAC has a theoretical maximum SNR of 144 dB, but the best current DACs can only obtain an SNR of 124 dB or 21 bits due to the noise floor of the components. In addition, human hearing has a dynamic range of about 120-130 dB. What's more, DACs have what's called Equivalent Number of Bits (ENOB) to signify the actual resolution of the DAC. A closer look at many 32 bit DACs reveals they actually have an ENOB of 19.5. Can you see why making judgements about DACs based on specifications is ridiculous?

[ChrisG]

Bit depth is not solely about dynamic range. Its more importantly about information density, the ability to more accurately reproduce a complex mixture of instruments and their overtones than a lesser bit depth.. So I am skeptical about any manufacturer whose philosophy is bit depth only matters to 21 bits. I believe the more honest answer is likely to be that current technology makes it challenging to make a commercially viable better offer over 21 bits, that this is related to why DSD is in vogue.

 

Bit depth is solely about the noise floor and dynamic range. Because there is less noise, you are able to more clearly hear the items you list in your second sentence provided the recording is mastered correctly. Less noise equals better dynamic range.

 

Vinyl has a dynamic range of 60-70 db or 11 bits and if you really push it (and accept about 3% distortion), reel-to-reel tape's dynamic range can get as high as 110db. 16-bit audio provides a theoretical SNR of 96dB. In practice (using noise shaping), the dynamic range of a 16-bit audio file can reach well over 100dB. And unless humans evolve significantly, it's more than enough resolution.

 

For example, a library's background noise is about 35db. An orchestra going full out has peaks of around 105db. Assuming the background of the hall is the same as the library's @ 35db, there's only about 70db (105-35) of usable dynamic range if you were to have the orchestra playing in your room (provided your room is that quiet).

 

There are plenty of 24-bit and higher DSPs used in the recording process, which is good to keep the 16-bits we need clean, but you're never getting 24 real bits of analog audio in or out of the system and that's a good thing -- 140dB SPL is the threshold of instant deafness, and if you lift the gain enough to hear a real 24-bit noise floor at say 20dB SPL in a very quiet studio, maximum output would be 20 + 144 = 164dB SPL, or 4dB over the threshold of death. Yes, a 160dB SPL will kill.

 

So, with 21-bits, Yggy provides a theoretical SNR of 126 (they claim >117db referenced to 2V RMS) -- more than enough to listen to music, not enough to kill...I think I'll have to mention that tagline to Jason ;-)

[ChrisG]

Anyone else who can chime in and compare the Yggy to a more expensive DAC? To take a flier on it I'd need to feel pretty confident about the sound - I've got to pay a lot of shipping and taxes to import it where I live, so if I try it and don't like it I'm out quite a bit of cash.

 

In my quest to find one DAC to rule them all, I went

 

PS Audio DL III w/ Cullen Mod -> PS Audio PWD I -> Linn Akurate DS -> Linn Klimax DS/1 -> Audio Research REF DAC

 

I thought that each new DAC was better than the one it replaced. For instance, I found that, over time, the Linn KDS was too analytical and I was cringing on some recordings, so I went with some tubes with the REF DAC which took the edge off at the expense of some resolution.

 

Then I bought Yggy and got the resolution of the KDS and w/ no digital glare. Yggy stayed and the REF DAC was sold. So, in my case, the $2299 DAC beat two DACs that retail for over $15K each.

 

I also have an Ayre QB-9 DSD that I use in my office. A friend just borrowed my Yggy for a few days and I threw the QB-9 into my main rig and, again, the digital glare is back...recordings sound hot and it was immediately noticeable. I haven't spent a great deal of time listening to it yet, so I'll write more comments after a few days if anyone is interested or you can PM me.

 

As a reference, my main system is

 

Pre-amp: VTL TL-7.5 III

Amp: Hegel H30

Speakers: Vivid Audio B-1

Subs: JLAudio f112 x 2

Dedicated Windows PC running Win10 & Fidelizer 6.11

Up Tone Audio Regen

Both the PC and Regen are powered by Up Tone Audio JS-2

[firedog]

So, in my case, the $2299 DAC beat two DACs that retail for over $15K each.

 

I also have an Ayre QB-9 DSD that I use in my office. A friend just borrowed my Yggy for a few days and I threw the QB-9 into my main rig and, again, the digital glare is back...recordings sound hot and it was immediately noticeable. I haven't spent a great deal of time listening to it yet, so I'll write more comments after a few days if anyone is interested or you can PM me.

 

As a reference, my main system is

 

Pre-amp: VTL TL-7.5 III

Amp: Hegel H30

Speakers: Vivid Audio B-1

Subs: JLAudio f112 x 2

Dedicated Windows PC running Win10 & Fidelizer 6.11

Up Tone Audio Regen

Both the PC and Regen are powered by Up Tone Audio JS-2

 

Would love to hear more impressions after you listen to it some more.

[Jimmypowder]

In my quest to find one DAC to rule them all, I went

 

PS Audio DL III w/ Cullen Mod -> PS Audio PWD I -> Linn Akurate DS -> Linn Klimax DS/1 -> Audio Research REF DAC

 

I thought that each new DAC was better than the one it replaced. For instance, I found that, over time, the Linn KDS was too analytical and I was cringing on some recordings, so I went with some tubes with the REF DAC which took the edge off at the expense of some resolution.

 

Then I bought Yggy and got the resolution of the KDS and w/ no digital glare. Yggy stayed and the REF DAC was sold. So, in my case, the $2299 DAC beat two DACs that retail for over $15K each.

 

I also have an Ayre QB-9 DSD that I use in my office. A friend just borrowed my Yggy for a few days and I threw the QB-9 into my main rig and, again, the digital glare is back...recordings sound hot and it was immediately noticeable. I haven't spent a great deal of time listening to it yet, so I'll write more comments after a few days if anyone is interested or you can PM me.

 

As a reference, my main system is

 

Pre-amp: VTL TL-7.5 III

Amp: Hegel H30

Speakers: Vivid Audio B-1

Subs: JLAudio f112 x 2

Dedicated Windows PC running Win10 & Fidelizer 6.11

Up Tone Audio Regen

Both the PC and Regen are powered by Up Tone Audio JS-2

 

Yep , there is no digital glare with the Yggy . When done were saying the Yggy is highly detailed I got concerned before I bought it that digital glare it treble harshness would be there . In fact , there is thankfully none of this .

 

Amazing dac and for around 2k , it is a steal .

[Jud]

I'm not sure if I miss-read the thoughts behind the comment, but Mike Moffat designed the famous ADC used by MSFL (though now they don't use it any more). If you have ever listened to Muddy Waters' Folk Singer or Robin Trower's Bridge of Sighs, those are two albums off the top of my head that were digitised with it. So "again" is needed in your comment I reckon. Otherwise I totally agree! You're not the first person to suggest it.

 

Kinda funny to see you listed here as a "newbie." Welcome!

 

I wonder whether the filter in the Yggy, since it starts cutting at .98 Nyquist, has any apodizing properties that would minimize ringing from ADCs.

[minimus67]

Chris, I really enjoyed reading this review, which is obviously groundbreaking. I have never before read a professional review of an affordable audio component that compares it another component costing 6 times and does not pull punches or glosses over the actual comparison.

 

Writers on some online audio forums were pretty condescending about the Yggrasil, dismissing the positive word-of-mouth as the product of ignorance and hype from the "great unwashed" who were exalting a mid-fi DAC because they cannot afford or refuse to pay for a truly excellent DAC. Your review greatly undermines that condescending viewpoint. Kudos to you!

[mordante]

It would be interesting to read a comparison with the Yggy and PCM vs a good DSD DAC like the Lampi for example.

 

Not fair, Lampi is much more expensive.

[gldgate]

Nice review. I've been thinking about getting a second DAC to complement my current sabre based model (Eastern Electric Supreme with Sparkos opamps). The Yggy was on my short list. Given the opportunity for a 15 day home trial I pulled the trigger. What I like about Schiit (hopefully in addition to SQ) is the direct sales model (no dealer mark up) and the upgradeable modular design.

[wwaldmanfan]

I wish it had a digital volume control, with a handheld remote. I'd be tempted if I didn't have to add a preamp and another pair of interconnects, or replace my power amp with an integrated. I suppose I could use Audirvana's software volume dithering with the Apple remote, but that seems like a compromise, at best.

[Foggie]

"Writers on some online audio forums were pretty condescending about the Yggrasil"

 

Curious - do you recall which articles? The Yggy does look interesting.

[mr_bill]

In my quest to find one DAC to rule them all, I went

 

PS Audio DL III w/ Cullen Mod -> PS Audio PWD I -> Linn Akurate DS -> Linn Klimax DS/1 -> Audio Research REF DAC

 

I thought that each new DAC was better than the one it replaced. For instance, I found that, over time, the Linn KDS was too analytical and I was cringing on some recordings, so I went with some tubes with the REF DAC which took the edge off at the expense of some resolution.

 

Then I bought Yggy and got the resolution of the KDS and w/ no digital glare. Yggy stayed and the REF DAC was sold. So, in my case, the $2299 DAC beat two DACs that retail for over $15K each.

 

I also have an Ayre QB-9 DSD that I use in my office. A friend just borrowed my Yggy for a few days and I threw the QB-9 into my main rig and, again, the digital glare is back...recordings sound hot and it was immediately noticeable. I haven't spent a great deal of time listening to it yet, so I'll write more comments after a few days if anyone is interested or you can PM me.

 

As a reference, my main system is

 

Pre-amp: VTL TL-7.5 III

Amp: Hegel H30

Speakers: Vivid Audio B-1

Subs: JLAudio f112 x 2

Dedicated Windows PC running Win10 & Fidelizer 6.11

Up Tone Audio Regen

Both the PC and Regen are powered by Up Tone Audio JS-2

 

I have the Ayre QB-9 DSD and am interested in the comparison with the Yggy as that's the other Dac I've contemplated. Please share.

Does the lack of 'glare' mean it has less treble or treble detail??

[Le Concombre Masqué]

as of my TEAC and the outstanding HQP it sounds awful to my ears while PCM to DSD is really good ; wonder if it sounds that way for the TEAC is delta sigma or....

Excellent review, thanks. The need for a DSD DAC is not dire since many applications can transcode DSD to PCM on the fly.

[Le Concombre Masqué]

in HQP, and to my understanding by essence, Closed form filters are non apodizing

Kinda funny to see you listed here as a "newbie." Welcome!

 

I wonder whether the filter in the Yggy, since it starts cutting at .98 Nyquist, has any apodizing properties that would minimize ringing from ADCs.

[Sal1950]

Chris,

Well written review and I'm sure the Yggdrasil sounds every bit as good as you say it does but I do have a few comments to make.

In the very first paragraph you state that $2,300 is inexpensive for a stand alone DAC? In a world where reasonably good sounding DAC's are on chips costing peanuts and included inside any number of well reviewed components I find it hard to call $2,300 an inexpensive DAC.

 

That comes to my second criticism from the same sentence.

"That's a new-in-box component with a fifteen day return policy and a five year warranty"

I would say that the industry standard for direct sales components today is a 30 day return policy,

Emotiva and Hsu come off the top of my head. For such an expensive product I would think that they could afford a longer preview, total satisfaction guaranteed, return period than 15 days.

[mourip]

I wish it had a digital volume control, with a handheld remote. I'd be tempted if I didn't have to add a preamp and another pair of interconnects, or replace my power amp with an integrated. I suppose I could use Audirvana's software volume dithering with the Apple remote, but that seems like a compromise, at best.

 

I replaced my two DACs a couple of weeks ago. I had a W4S DAC2 DSDse and a TEAC 501 DSD.

 

I bought a used Vega for my main system as it had very good reviews and a remote. I bought the Yggy for my headphone system because I wanted to see what the multi-bit sound was like. My headphone amp has a volume pot and sits next to my desk so that worked.

 

All I can say is that now I want to put the Yggy into my main system and am looking for a remote controlled passive preamp to slip in after it. I am seriously considering the Tortuga LDRv3.2k which is a kit. It uses an Apple remote and has mute and balance also.

[mourip]

In the very first paragraph you state that $2,300 is inexpensive for a stand alone DAC? In a world where reasonably good sounding DAC's are on chips costing peanuts and included inside any number of well reviewed components I find it hard to call $2,300 an inexpensive DAC.

 

I think that he is saying that it is relatively inexpensive for what approaches state of the art.

 

Please send us a list of SOTA DACs that can be bought for peanuts. I would rather use the extra money for Cote du Rhone :-)

[ChrisG]

I have the Ayre QB-9 DSD and am interested in the comparison with the Yggy as that's the other Dac I've contemplated. Please share.

Does the lack of 'glare' mean it has less treble or treble detail??

 

Yggy is cool in that it has great resolution yet it isn't fatiguing to listen to; it has lots of treble detail. When I compared it to the ARC REF DAC, it sounded like someone put a piece of cloth over the speakers with the ARC.

 

On the other hand, some dacs that are highly resolving sound great at first, but I've found that after a while, I can't listen to them for long periods of time. To some degree, system synergy plays a part -- for instance, I really loved the KDS/1 with Parasound JC1 amps (modified by Steve Nugent) and a JC2 BP preamp, but when I went all Klimax, it was too much of a good thing combined with the Vivid speakers (which I love BTW).

 

to be fair to the QB-9, my friend was over and we were just going through some tracks on Roon (both from my collection and Tidal) so I haven't spent a great deal of time with the QB-9, but both of us could hear what I refer to as "glare" -- it is like the tracks are recorded too hot. Vivid speakers are also pretty resolving, so like I said, system synergy plays a part.

 

But I was really surprised by the difference I heard yesterday with just a few songs through the QB-9 DSD. Same amp, preamp, etc., and I'm anticipating that I won't be able to listen for long without becoming fatigued.

 

However, in my office desktop set up, I have Focal CMS 50 speakers and I moved the Linn Klimax Kontrol/2 preamp into this rig and I don't find the QB-9 DSD fatiguing at all, so maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

Since this is a Yggy thread, I don't want to hijack it with too much comparisons to the Ayre. I'll drop you a PM after I listen to it some more.

[Sal1950]

I think that he is saying that it is relatively inexpensive for what approaches state of the art.

 

Please send us a list of SOTA DACs that can be bought for peanuts. I would rather use the extra money for Cote du Rhone :-)

 

There's a free one already in your computer, just plug into the line out.

[ChrisG]

Haters gonna hate

[wgscott]

I wish it had a digital volume control, with a handheld remote. I'd be tempted if I didn't have to add a preamp and another pair of interconnects, or replace my power amp with an integrated. I suppose I could use Audirvana's software volume dithering with the Apple remote, but that seems like a compromise, at best.

 

Exactly my thoughts.

[Sal1950]

Haters gonna hate

I hope that wasn't directed at me.

[Gary]

Really great review. I enjoyed reading it. Did you happen to get a sense of the USB implementation?

[firedog]

Not fair, Lampi is much more expensive.

It's fair when Schiit claims the Yggy sounds as good as anything on the market and invites such comparisons.