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Low performance PC VS. High performance PC + BIOS Mod (Paul Pang concept) What do you think?

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i'm so curios about this thing.

Low Performance PC generate noise less than High Performance PC and also cheaper, less power.

 

I need some advice before i buy PPA kit.

Do i need to sacrifice for its cost?

How much different in SQ?

If it can go far better than Low Performance PC, ok then i'm willing to pay for it.

 

Thanks so much... ^_^


DAC - Mytek Brooklyn, Intona High Speed Isolator.Int.Amp - ATC SIA2 150,SP - ATC SCM19, Sub - Paradigm SW2200

Source - Audio PC, Core i7 4785T 2.2Ghz, 8G PPA RAM, Samsung 850pro , WD Black HDD, JCAT USB card, PPA BLACK SATA Cable, HDPLEX H5 gen2 case, LPSu - Uptone JS-2 for DAC and USB Card - TeraDak ATX350W for PC, OS wins2012R2, Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, ASIO JPLAY, Foobar2000+Ramdisk, Hq player, SP cable - JPS superconductor2, Analog interconnect - Harmornic Tech Magic link III, USB cable - JCAT twin cable, Power cable - JPS kaptivator for Uptone JS-2 forDAC and USB card, Wireworld electra7 for PC, Wireworld electra7 silver for Amp, Magnet 2000 power line stabilzer and conditioner for DAC,PC

12932837_1700967073514123_7525078827891555851_n.jpg

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How much is the Paul Pang computer and what are its specs and what is included?

 

depending on how customized it is, you may be able to save a ton of money. Check out my thread on my Customized $500 music server in this forum.

 

Best Regards,

 

Ron


Custom Linux Server -> M2TECH HiFACE TWO BNC -> Bryston BDA-1 DAC -> Creek Evolution 50A -> Epos Epic 2 & Bowers & Wilkins ASW10CM Sub

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I would think you first want to work with what you got. Work towards your DAC's strengths. Is multi media capabilities important too you? That will determine your PC focus. You don't have to over spend on someone else's audiophile PC, but nothing wrong with it.


(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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How much is the Paul Pang computer and what are its specs and what is included?

 

depending on how customized it is, you may be able to save a ton of money. Check out my thread on my Customized $500 music server in this forum.

 

Best Regards,

 

Ron

 

I mean piece by piece, MB for example. Its cost 4 times of regular MB. but i don't know how much it can improve SQ?

Did you ever tried testing them (Reg MB VS. PPA MB)

 

I often see threads like yours ( Customized $500 music server, something like that)

I've never seen they compare it to the others or to CD or SACD player at the same price.

so i can't figure it out how far it go from those player.

If it come out as the same or equal to, i think i just walk to audio shop and buy it,is better.


DAC - Mytek Brooklyn, Intona High Speed Isolator.Int.Amp - ATC SIA2 150,SP - ATC SCM19, Sub - Paradigm SW2200

Source - Audio PC, Core i7 4785T 2.2Ghz, 8G PPA RAM, Samsung 850pro , WD Black HDD, JCAT USB card, PPA BLACK SATA Cable, HDPLEX H5 gen2 case, LPSu - Uptone JS-2 for DAC and USB Card - TeraDak ATX350W for PC, OS wins2012R2, Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, ASIO JPLAY, Foobar2000+Ramdisk, Hq player, SP cable - JPS superconductor2, Analog interconnect - Harmornic Tech Magic link III, USB cable - JCAT twin cable, Power cable - JPS kaptivator for Uptone JS-2 forDAC and USB card, Wireworld electra7 for PC, Wireworld electra7 silver for Amp, Magnet 2000 power line stabilzer and conditioner for DAC,PC

12932837_1700967073514123_7525078827891555851_n.jpg

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Tried high and low plus some in between. Honestly there is nothing cut and dry.... That is to say any set up can be tuned and tweaked to perform just about on par with any other.

 

Actually i prefer low performance PC but all PPA upgrade kits are for high performance DIY.

so i just wanna know why?

 

Actually i've already asked Paul, but his answer was too brief. He seem not like to reply something like this.


DAC - Mytek Brooklyn, Intona High Speed Isolator.Int.Amp - ATC SIA2 150,SP - ATC SCM19, Sub - Paradigm SW2200

Source - Audio PC, Core i7 4785T 2.2Ghz, 8G PPA RAM, Samsung 850pro , WD Black HDD, JCAT USB card, PPA BLACK SATA Cable, HDPLEX H5 gen2 case, LPSu - Uptone JS-2 for DAC and USB Card - TeraDak ATX350W for PC, OS wins2012R2, Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, ASIO JPLAY, Foobar2000+Ramdisk, Hq player, SP cable - JPS superconductor2, Analog interconnect - Harmornic Tech Magic link III, USB cable - JCAT twin cable, Power cable - JPS kaptivator for Uptone JS-2 forDAC and USB card, Wireworld electra7 for PC, Wireworld electra7 silver for Amp, Magnet 2000 power line stabilzer and conditioner for DAC,PC

12932837_1700967073514123_7525078827891555851_n.jpg

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Actually i want a kind of Audio pc which approach to Hi-end Audio player.

One thing i wanna know is Can it reach my goal?

If it doesn't work, so i pay for nothing.

 

That's is a reason that why i need your comment and the others as much as possible. ^_^


DAC - Mytek Brooklyn, Intona High Speed Isolator.Int.Amp - ATC SIA2 150,SP - ATC SCM19, Sub - Paradigm SW2200

Source - Audio PC, Core i7 4785T 2.2Ghz, 8G PPA RAM, Samsung 850pro , WD Black HDD, JCAT USB card, PPA BLACK SATA Cable, HDPLEX H5 gen2 case, LPSu - Uptone JS-2 for DAC and USB Card - TeraDak ATX350W for PC, OS wins2012R2, Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, ASIO JPLAY, Foobar2000+Ramdisk, Hq player, SP cable - JPS superconductor2, Analog interconnect - Harmornic Tech Magic link III, USB cable - JCAT twin cable, Power cable - JPS kaptivator for Uptone JS-2 forDAC and USB card, Wireworld electra7 for PC, Wireworld electra7 silver for Amp, Magnet 2000 power line stabilzer and conditioner for DAC,PC

12932837_1700967073514123_7525078827891555851_n.jpg

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Actually i want a kind of Audio pc which approach to Hi-end Audio player.

One thing i wanna know is Can it reach my goal?

If it doesn't work, so i pay for nothing.

 

That's is a reason that why i need your comment and the others as much as possible. ^_^

Of course you can reach your goal but always the budget will be caught your goal, you may have versatile choices which was not mentioned above. take your time fully and decide what you exactly want.

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Of course you can reach your goal but always the budget will be caught your goal, you may have versatile choices which was not mentioned above. take your time fully and decide what you exactly want.
nks

 

Thanks FakeM

 

I set my budget ceiling at $2000. If it can beat $3000 disk player,that will be great! ^_^

 

As my experience trying low performance PC and high performance PC + PPA V4 card + Bios setting according to Paul's recommend.

I tihnk low performance pc is ok, not too bad but it doesn't even reach hi-end. it sounds clear smooth but dry. It can't produce rich harmonic.

 

High performance pc is much better in term of hi-end approaching, I can hear some micro detail and rich harmonic.

It makes me think that High performance pc is possible to serve my need and for the comment from PPA user who said he sold his $5000 disk player and use PPA music server instead, is probably true.

 

I just want some various, versatile both negative and positive comments, to make sure that what i'm doing is not going to the wrong way.

it's a big money which i can't just like and buy it, then if it's not, just throw it away. ^_^


DAC - Mytek Brooklyn, Intona High Speed Isolator.Int.Amp - ATC SIA2 150,SP - ATC SCM19, Sub - Paradigm SW2200

Source - Audio PC, Core i7 4785T 2.2Ghz, 8G PPA RAM, Samsung 850pro , WD Black HDD, JCAT USB card, PPA BLACK SATA Cable, HDPLEX H5 gen2 case, LPSu - Uptone JS-2 for DAC and USB Card - TeraDak ATX350W for PC, OS wins2012R2, Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, ASIO JPLAY, Foobar2000+Ramdisk, Hq player, SP cable - JPS superconductor2, Analog interconnect - Harmornic Tech Magic link III, USB cable - JCAT twin cable, Power cable - JPS kaptivator for Uptone JS-2 forDAC and USB card, Wireworld electra7 for PC, Wireworld electra7 silver for Amp, Magnet 2000 power line stabilzer and conditioner for DAC,PC

12932837_1700967073514123_7525078827891555851_n.jpg

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have you contacted Andrew from Small green computer? he may suggest a good solution concerning your demands.

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have you contacted Andrew from Small green computer? he may suggest a good solution concerning your demands.

 

I've never heard of that. Could you give me his link?


DAC - Mytek Brooklyn, Intona High Speed Isolator.Int.Amp - ATC SIA2 150,SP - ATC SCM19, Sub - Paradigm SW2200

Source - Audio PC, Core i7 4785T 2.2Ghz, 8G PPA RAM, Samsung 850pro , WD Black HDD, JCAT USB card, PPA BLACK SATA Cable, HDPLEX H5 gen2 case, LPSu - Uptone JS-2 for DAC and USB Card - TeraDak ATX350W for PC, OS wins2012R2, Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, ASIO JPLAY, Foobar2000+Ramdisk, Hq player, SP cable - JPS superconductor2, Analog interconnect - Harmornic Tech Magic link III, USB cable - JCAT twin cable, Power cable - JPS kaptivator for Uptone JS-2 forDAC and USB card, Wireworld electra7 for PC, Wireworld electra7 silver for Amp, Magnet 2000 power line stabilzer and conditioner for DAC,PC

12932837_1700967073514123_7525078827891555851_n.jpg

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One of the many issues about which there is no agreement in audio, including "experts" on both sides of the issue.

 

I 'd think the determining factor would be if you want to use the PC for DSP or upsampling on the fly. If not go low power; if yes, go high power.


Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi  AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>RPi4 (dietpi)>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Listening: Server>Matrix Element i Streamer/DAC (XLR)>Schiit Freya>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: RPi 3B+ running RoPieee to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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What do you think?

 

First the disclaimer: I have no experience with Paul Pang's components, so I cannot advise you on their merits. I have some experience building audio servers, using laptops, embedded computers and currently a standard ITX (SoC) main board. You might consider me as a proponent of low power solutions.

 

Low performance vs. High performance PC

As firedog mentioned, define your use case. Low power PCs are absolutely sufficient for playback, but if you want to try resampling, room correction or DSD decoding, you need something with more performance.

 

BIOS Mod (e.g. Paul Pang)

I think you expect too much from this single modification. There are other hardware optimizations which will give you a better return for money spent. Consider a better power supply, an optimized operating system, diskless operation and signal reconstitution on the output of the server (I prefer S/PDIF, but USB is also possible - it's discussed extensively on this forum) - probably in this order. While I could not detect changes in audio performance when modifying BIOS settings (even if some of them had measurable impact on system performance), I did hear differences between main board brands. (*)

 

Actually i want a kind of Audio pc which approach to Hi-end Audio player

You should consider the whole system, consisting of playback hardware and DAC. The CD player has an unfair advantage over multiple box solutions, because it can use a more efficient internal signal path between it's components. I have a Linn CD player for comparison, and computer playback needed a lot of effort to make it perform better. The major part of playback performance comes from the DAC, put at least 2/3 of the budget in this component, the difference in sound is more noticeable than investing in computer hardware (exceptions: see above).

 

Budget 2000$

With this budget in mind, you could also look at commercial options, e.g. Aries or SotM/Sonore.

 

(*) I mostly listen for changes in sound stage and transients in acoustic guitars or drum kits, because I find them most easily recognized.


Primary ::= Nabla music server | Mutec MC-3+USB w/ Temex LPFRS-01 RB clock | WLM Gamma Reference DAC; Secondary ::= Nabla music server | WaveIO | PrismSound Lyra

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I am into computer audio for quit some time now, and was able to improve the SQ tremendously with the help of optimized software (JPlay, AO) and modified parts like the ones from PPA. I started out with a normal pc and now have a dual streamer setup with all these mods. When you use a decent DAC and DDC you can reach the level of high-end disc players. I am totally happy with the performance/money spend ratio but it is a little difficult for me to determine that for an other person.

 

I agree with Iago, put atleast 2/3 of your budget in a DAC. If your streamer setup is cutting edge but you use "a shitty dac" you won't be able to hear the benefits of these modified components.


Mobile: iPhone 6s 128Gb > Chord Hugo > Shure 846

Stereo: PPA dual streamer setup with JPlay and AO > Lampizator Golden Gate SE > Classe Omega Preamp MKII > 2xNord On UP NC500DM > Linkwitz LX521

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I've never heard of that. Could you give me his link?

 

i found it. Mr.Google know everything!!!!


DAC - Mytek Brooklyn, Intona High Speed Isolator.Int.Amp - ATC SIA2 150,SP - ATC SCM19, Sub - Paradigm SW2200

Source - Audio PC, Core i7 4785T 2.2Ghz, 8G PPA RAM, Samsung 850pro , WD Black HDD, JCAT USB card, PPA BLACK SATA Cable, HDPLEX H5 gen2 case, LPSu - Uptone JS-2 for DAC and USB Card - TeraDak ATX350W for PC, OS wins2012R2, Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, ASIO JPLAY, Foobar2000+Ramdisk, Hq player, SP cable - JPS superconductor2, Analog interconnect - Harmornic Tech Magic link III, USB cable - JCAT twin cable, Power cable - JPS kaptivator for Uptone JS-2 forDAC and USB card, Wireworld electra7 for PC, Wireworld electra7 silver for Amp, Magnet 2000 power line stabilzer and conditioner for DAC,PC

12932837_1700967073514123_7525078827891555851_n.jpg

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I did hear differences between main board brands. (*)

I have choices. Have you ever tried them?

Which one sounds the best?

Asus H170M-E D3

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/H170M-E-D3/

Asus H170M-Plus

H170M-PLUS/CSM | Motherboards | ASUS USA

Asus B85M-G

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/B85MG/

MSI H97M-E35

Motherboard - The world leader in motherboard design


DAC - Mytek Brooklyn, Intona High Speed Isolator.Int.Amp - ATC SIA2 150,SP - ATC SCM19, Sub - Paradigm SW2200

Source - Audio PC, Core i7 4785T 2.2Ghz, 8G PPA RAM, Samsung 850pro , WD Black HDD, JCAT USB card, PPA BLACK SATA Cable, HDPLEX H5 gen2 case, LPSu - Uptone JS-2 for DAC and USB Card - TeraDak ATX350W for PC, OS wins2012R2, Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, ASIO JPLAY, Foobar2000+Ramdisk, Hq player, SP cable - JPS superconductor2, Analog interconnect - Harmornic Tech Magic link III, USB cable - JCAT twin cable, Power cable - JPS kaptivator for Uptone JS-2 forDAC and USB card, Wireworld electra7 for PC, Wireworld electra7 silver for Amp, Magnet 2000 power line stabilzer and conditioner for DAC,PC

12932837_1700967073514123_7525078827891555851_n.jpg

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You should consider the whole system, consisting of playback hardware and DAC.

The major part of playback performance comes from the DAC, put at least 2/3 of the budget in this component, the difference in sound is more noticeable than investing in computer hardware (exceptions: see above).

 

Yes. DAC is the next step. Now i use NAD M51 for a long time. I just wait for the right situation. Now almost commercial music are still available only on pcm.

 

I think i go to a half way in Audio pc. Should i go back to Commercial product or keep going?


DAC - Mytek Brooklyn, Intona High Speed Isolator.Int.Amp - ATC SIA2 150,SP - ATC SCM19, Sub - Paradigm SW2200

Source - Audio PC, Core i7 4785T 2.2Ghz, 8G PPA RAM, Samsung 850pro , WD Black HDD, JCAT USB card, PPA BLACK SATA Cable, HDPLEX H5 gen2 case, LPSu - Uptone JS-2 for DAC and USB Card - TeraDak ATX350W for PC, OS wins2012R2, Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, ASIO JPLAY, Foobar2000+Ramdisk, Hq player, SP cable - JPS superconductor2, Analog interconnect - Harmornic Tech Magic link III, USB cable - JCAT twin cable, Power cable - JPS kaptivator for Uptone JS-2 forDAC and USB card, Wireworld electra7 for PC, Wireworld electra7 silver for Amp, Magnet 2000 power line stabilzer and conditioner for DAC,PC

12932837_1700967073514123_7525078827891555851_n.jpg

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I am into computer audio for quit some time now, and was able to improve the SQ tremendously with the help of optimized software (JPlay, AO) and modified parts like the ones from PPA. I started out with a normal pc and now have a dual streamer setup with all these mods. When you use a decent DAC and DDC you can reach the level of high-end disc players. I am totally happy with the performance/money spend ratio but it is a little difficult for me to determine that for an other person.

 

I agree with Iago, put atleast 2/3 of your budget in a DAC. If your streamer setup is cutting edge but you use "a shitty dac" you won't be able to hear the benefits of these modified components.

 

That's a very nice comment. DAC may be my next step.


DAC - Mytek Brooklyn, Intona High Speed Isolator.Int.Amp - ATC SIA2 150,SP - ATC SCM19, Sub - Paradigm SW2200

Source - Audio PC, Core i7 4785T 2.2Ghz, 8G PPA RAM, Samsung 850pro , WD Black HDD, JCAT USB card, PPA BLACK SATA Cable, HDPLEX H5 gen2 case, LPSu - Uptone JS-2 for DAC and USB Card - TeraDak ATX350W for PC, OS wins2012R2, Audio Optimizer, Fidelizer Pro, ASIO JPLAY, Foobar2000+Ramdisk, Hq player, SP cable - JPS superconductor2, Analog interconnect - Harmornic Tech Magic link III, USB cable - JCAT twin cable, Power cable - JPS kaptivator for Uptone JS-2 forDAC and USB card, Wireworld electra7 for PC, Wireworld electra7 silver for Amp, Magnet 2000 power line stabilzer and conditioner for DAC,PC

12932837_1700967073514123_7525078827891555851_n.jpg

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I have choices. Have you ever tried them?

Which one sounds the best?

Asus H170M-E D3

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/H170M-E-D3/

Asus H170M-Plus

H170M-PLUS/CSM | Motherboards | ASUS USA

Asus B85M-G

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/B85MG/

MSI H97M-E35

Motherboard - The world leader in motherboard design

 

or even Supermicro MBD-X11SSQ - new, and available I am told very shortly in the UK - just finding out from them right now...

Supermicro | Products | Motherboards | Xeon® Boards | X11SSQ

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delete


(JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14)  (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i  (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer)

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I have choices. Have you ever tried them?

Which one sounds the best?

Asus H170M-E D3

https://www.asus.com/us/Motherboards/H170M-E-D3/

Asus H170M-Plus

H170M-PLUS/CSM | Motherboards | ASUS USA

Asus B85M-G

https://www.asus.com/Motherboards/B85MG/

MSI H97M-E35

Motherboard - The world leader in motherboard design

 

You are missing the Gigabyte durable series of motherboards. Paul Pang seems to prefer these boards for audio. He's in Taiwan the motherboard capital of the world, so he may know something.


nuckleheadaudio.com

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I have choices. Have you ever tried them?

Which one sounds the best?

 

Sorry, I have not tried any of them; my last experiments were exclusively with J1800 boards.

 

The current incarnation of my audio server uses a Gigabyte GA-J1800N-D2P board, obviously made for the embedded market. Since my operating system would not boot reliably and the Gigabyte support was not really helpful, I also acquired similar boards from Asus (ASUS J1800I-C (the A was not available then)) and Asrock (ASRock D1800B-ITX) to see if it was a problem with the main board or a software problem. After fixing an embarrassing design bug, I tried all of them and found the Gigabyte board to have the most preferable sound. Since it also had the best real-time performance [1], I presume this might account for the difference.

 

[1] Essentially, I use a tool to measure and display the interval between the time a process is scheduled for execution and the time it actually starts. The output gives an overview of scheduling latency & jitter.


Primary ::= Nabla music server | Mutec MC-3+USB w/ Temex LPFRS-01 RB clock | WLM Gamma Reference DAC; Secondary ::= Nabla music server | WaveIO | PrismSound Lyra

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