Another day, another iTunes problem.

[wgscott]

I just cloned my iTunes filesystem (i.e., /Volumes/Media/iTunes/iTunes\ Media ) to a new hard drive. It is now called /Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes/iTunes\ Media. Everything else is the same. I made the required change in the file path name, so iTunes finds all the music.

 

Now when I play something, iTunes will move a directory from /Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes/iTunes\ Media/Music to /Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes ). Without warning. Just out of spite. I've made sure file ownership, etc is all the same. Then to prevent the tracks themselves from being molested, I removed all write-permission. iTunes can no longer move the actual music files, but persists in copying the subdirectories. I now have this empty directory, for example.

 

/Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes/iTunes Media/Beethoven_ Haitink/Symphony No. 6 (24_48)

 

I know I can prevent this by turning off "Keep iTunes Media folder organized", but it worked fine with it on until I cloned the disk.

 

I'm really getting to despise iTunes.

[Jud]

It's because iTunes is fundamentally not controllable that I long ago lost patience with it.

[REShaman]

I just cloned my iTunes filesystem (i.e., /Volumes/Media/iTunes/iTunes\ Media ) to a new hard drive. It is now called /Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes/iTunes\ Media. Everything else is the same. I made the required change in the file path name, so iTunes finds all the music.

 

Now when I play something, iTunes will move a directory from /Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes/iTunes\ Media/Music to /Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes ). Without warning. Just out of spite. I've made sure file ownership, etc is all the same. Then to prevent the tracks themselves from being molested, I removed all write-permission. iTunes can no longer move the actual music files, but persists in copying the subdirectories. I now have this empty directory, for example.

 

/Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes/iTunes Media/Beethoven_ Haitink/Symphony No. 6 (24_48)

 

I know I can prevent this by turning off "Keep iTunes Media folder organized", but it worked fine with it on until I cloned the disk.

 

I'm really getting to despise iTunes.

 

Hello Bill,

 

That's curious. Long ago in a galaxy far away, as a tyro with iTunes I organized iTunes as I would want it; and then as an after thought checked "Keep iTunes Media folder organized". Oy Vay! iTunes decided my organization was different from what checking resulted in. Fortunately, I discovered this in time to spend a considerable amount of personal time, undoing what iTunes organization wrought. Since then have left that feature unchecked.

 

I have also left the location for my music library where I first moved it to, to wit: Promise Pegasus 12TB R6 Raid 5 Thunderbolt, backed up three deep. (Thank the Lord). With roon as one of my players, I allow roon to "Watch" my music library on the Raid Drives. Somehow, when I make metadata changes to iTunes (the program), they are reflected in roon. That's a desirable outcome. Or if I change a folder in my music library on the Raid Drive, roon scans and mirrors the change. This works for me.

 

iTunes burned me once and almost destroyed my library. It required AppleCare second tier to help me. I have learned to trust iTunes (on a short rope) and I keep that camel tied up nevertheless (smile).

 

Hope you resolve these issues to your satisfaction.

 

Best,

Richard

[Bikutoru]

...Now when I play something, iTunes will move a directory from /Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes/iTunes\ Media/Music to /Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes ). Without warning....

 

Just curious, in Advanced Preferences, what do you have for "iTunes Media folder location?

/Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes/iTunes Media

or

/Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes

 

I think it should be the former, that's what I have.

Unlike every one on this thread, I lost patience with every other program I tried. Just cannot imagine my life with iTunes. I still use them occasionally, but iTunes saves the day when it comes to meta data and organisation. I still have two backups of it, just in case.

[wgscott]

Oh, that's interesting. I have

 

/Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes/iTunes Media

 

I'll try changing it.

 

(Everything is backed up, twice, at least.)

 

When I did this, it processed a bunch of files really fast, so I assume it was doing some sort of database update. None of the real files have moved. So far.

 

It has also retained the path

 

/Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes

 

now, so hopefully changing it forced it to behave nonpathologically. Thanks!

[Bikutoru]

I'd create another library in a different location loaded one album and try to see how it does it.

If you on a mac you can create/open a different library with Option key down at starting iTunes, on a PC it is probably Alt key.

 

That what I had done long time ago, just to understand what "Keep iTunes Media folder organized" checkmark does. After I got it, I was a happy camper ever since.

[miguelito]

Oh, that's interesting. I have

 

/Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes/iTunes Media

 

I'll try changing it.

 

(Everything is backed up, twice, at least.)

 

This should be fine. I wonder if the space is resulting in an issue. Did you try to put the path in quotes?

 

If you have a particular file organization of the iTunes files, you must uncheck "Keep files organized" (as Richard pointed out). iTunes concept of organized is it's own...

[wgscott]

No, you set it by navigating to it. It all worked, and iTunes found all the music. I think there is something invisible that wasn't getting updated before until I made the change. I still haven't had time to prove to myself that is is working right.

 

(If you give the proper unix path with the escape before the space, it does not work. iTunes makes the stupid directory with the space by the way. It would never occur to me to do that.)

[REShaman]

This should be fine. I wonder if the space is resulting in an issue. Did you try to put the path in quotes?

 

If you have a particular file organization of the iTunes files, you must uncheck "Keep files organized" (as Richard pointed out). iTunes concept of organized is it's own...

 

Hello Miguel,

 

Precisely. That was my experience, hence the reason unchecking organization by iTunes which made a mess of the synergy I created that works for me. So many albums ended up in compilations etc. that I had to search for where iTunes put them. Once I unchecked keep organized and returned those albums to where I wanted them, the writing was on the wall: iTunes keep your mits of my tunes (smile).

 

Best,

Richard

[wgscott]

I guess I didn't manage to realize at the time that the progress bar corresponded to making 305 directories in the wrong place. Presumably it would have moved my files, too, had I not write-protected them. iTunes really is a festering piece of green spew.

[Musicophile]

I guess I didn't manage to realize at the time that the progress bar corresponded to making 305 directories in the wrong place. Presumably it would have moved my files, too, had I not write-protected them. iTunes really is a festering piece of green spew.

I don't share your opinion here.

 

The thing is just with iTunes, like with most Apple software, you have two choices: either leave it manage stuff 100%, in which case it really works fine, and live with the resulting folder structure and other consequence (which I've been doing happily for the last 5 years) or manage everything yourself.

 

Any form of compromise usually ends up in the way you've described it.

[wgscott]

Well, for the last 12 years or so I have let iTunes do what it wanted, and have never had a problem. I copy my collection to other drives with different names and take them to work or other places in the house with other computers, and I've never had this problem. In this case the only thing I did was copy my collection to a new drive. Now it wants to move and reorganize what iTunes itself previously organized. That's what I find perplexing. It isn't that I am trying deliberately to do something contrary to what iTunes previously arranged.

 

Since you let iTunes organize things as it wants, what directory does your music wind up in?

[wgscott]

I think I figured out why this is happening. I created symbolic links to all the movies and TV shows and all the other non-music stuff, which I kept on the old drive. iTunes really hates symbolic links. I found that out the hard way many years ago, before the Cocoa/Obj C re-write, but I think this persisted. In any case, it wants to create a new library consisting of only what is on the local disk. The amusing thing is I have about 35 GB of crap (thanks B&W Society of Sound) that I decided I hate and unloaded from the iTunes database, but never deleted from the disk.

 

I decided to use this new irritating behavior to my advantage. I turned off write protection, and then I repeated the above steps, resulting in iTunes moving all my music that it has in its database, and leaving the orphaned junk behind. So I renamed the Music file containing the orphaned junk, re-created the original music file, moved the other music back into it, and turned off iTunes automatic organization and re-write-protected the files. So i turned the annoying behavior into a mechanism for easily accomplishing a house-cleaning task I was dreading. I also suspect that iTunes can still be coerced into organizing my music if in the Advanced preferences I point it to the directory /Volumes/MediaSSD/iTunes/iTunes Media/Music, which is where the music I want is once again located. I'll save that experiment for another day.

[jumpsturdy]

one thing to remember is that you can't have the original music HD with "organize' checked and a clone of it with the same 'organize ' checed as well or they will alternate redoing everything to correct file path issues. When you had it working I suspect that the organization option was only checked for one of the drives. Which should allow it to work as you want it too.

At least to to extent I understood your issues.

[Musicophile]

 

Since you let iTunes organize things as it wants, what directory does your music wind up in?

Volumes/Media Library 4TB/Itunes Files/Music

[wgscott]

/Volumes/Media Library 4TB/Itunes Files/Music

 

Mine was behaving the same as yours, previously.

 

As noted above, I think the issue is iTunes and sym links.

[miguelito]

The thing is just with iTunes, like with most Apple software, you have two choices: either leave it manage stuff 100%, in which case it really works fine, and live with the resulting folder structure and other consequence (which I've been doing happily for the last 5 years) or manage everything yourself.

Changing the location of the iTunes folder has always worked fine for me, but if you want you change the directory structure to have your own file organization within this location, then you're on your own. If you do the latter and uncheck "Keep files organized" and "Copy files to iTunes folder", then you will be fine. If you don't uncheck the copy, the files you drag n drop or add in iTunes will be copied to the iTunes folder with whatever organization iTunes decides is best.

 

But in all honesty, lets be clear: most library management software will behave as if you had unchecked both those "features". JRMC is a bit more sophisticated here, but on the flipside it is not as stable as iTunes on the mac.

[miguelito]

Mine was behaving the same as yours, previously.

 

As noted above, I think the issue is iTunes and sym links.

If you create your symlinks within the terminal prompt then I think you're fine. If you create one with the finder right-click or what have you then I think you will have issues. I don't quite recall what issues I had in the past. If you're deleting folders such as "~/Music" to put a symlink in place, you will need to su to do that IIRC.

[Jud]

Changing the location of the iTunes folder has always worked fine for me, but if you want you change the directory structure to have your own file organization within this location, then you're on your own. If you do the latter and uncheck "Keep files organized" and "Copy files to iTunes folder", then you will be fine. If you don't uncheck the copy, the files you drag n drop or add in iTunes will be copied to the iTunes folder with whatever organization iTunes decides is best.

 

But in all honesty, lets be clear: most library management software will behave as if you had unchecked both those "features". JRMC is a bit more sophisticated here, but on the flipside it is not as stable as iTunes on the mac.

 

This is where I prefer library management the way A+ does it - it follows standards as far as they go, and leaves the rest for you to fill in. It's very easy to see in A+ what isn't showing up where I want it to, whereupon I use Yate to add the missing metadata (thanks, miguelito, for recommending Yate).

 

I stopped using iTunes for organization when I didn't have a huge amount of stuff to re-do; I recognize that for those who do have a mountain of iTunes-organized music, changing that would not be very quick or practical.

[wgscott]

If you create your symlinks within the terminal prompt then I think you're fine.

 

I did. It might be a red herring. All i did was replace TV and movie video files with symlinks, without changing the directory hierarchy. In the old pre-unix days, Apple had "aliases" which supposedly would do the same as symlinks, but behave differently. Those persisted for awhile.

 

If you create one with the finder right-click or what have you then I think you will have issues. I don't quite recall what issues I had in the past. If you're deleting folders such as "~/Music" to put a symlink in place, you will need to su to do that IIRC.

 

Those are the Apple aliases.

 

Again, it might be a red herring. At this point I really don't care, since everything is organized the way I want it. If I import something, it is easier to do it in iTunes on my iMac, and then curate the metadata and then manually add it to the iTunes collection and the database by hand. It just bugs me that it has this undocumented, unpredictable behavior. I used to think it was simply naive user error when other people reported this kind of phenomenon, so I guess it is a bit of a lesson to me as well.

[wgscott]

This is where I prefer library management the way A+ does it - it follows standards as far as they go, and leaves the rest for you to fill in. It's very easy to see in A+ what isn't showing up where I want it to, whereupon I use Yate to add the missing metadata (thanks, miguelito, for recommending Yate).

 

I stopped using iTunes for organization when I didn't have a huge amount of stuff to re-do; I recognize that for those who do have a mountain of iTunes-organized music, changing that would not be very quick or practical.

 

 

Does Audirvana Plus actually allow you to move files around? I missed that completely. (Part of the confusion is the term library, which can be used in the context of database or actual music collection. AFAIK, Audirvana doesn't touch the actual filesystem, but I may just have missed it, since i use it mostly in iTunes parasite mode. As of last night, I finally have my album artist tagging complete for everything I own, and have moved all the crap I hate out of my main music file collection, so Audirvana is now usable to me in stand-alone mode. I still find its interface a wee bit clunky and inflexible compared to that of iTunes, but the ability to separate stuff according to album artist (or whatever your first sorting criteria are) is definitely a major advantage of iTunes).

[wgscott]

As a positive control/counter-example, I have the same iTunes music collection on an external hard-drive at work.

 

My iTunes Media folder location is this:

 

/Volumes/MasterBackup/Media/iTunes/iTunes Media

 

The keep iTunes Media folder organized box is checked.

 

Nothing gets moved by iTunes from where it was put in /Volumes/MasterBackup/Media/iTunes . Ever.

 

The ONLY substantive difference is the lack of sym links for the movie files in /Volumes/MasterBackup/Media/iTunes/iTunes Media/Movies (and for TV Shows).

 

iTunes in this case behaves exactly the way we all agree we should expect it to.

[Musicophile]

AFAIK, Audirvana doesn't touch the actual filesystem, but I may just have missed it, since i use it mostly in iTunes parasite mode. .

This is also my understanding.

 

And as I'm too lazy and not bothered enough to invent my own file system, I just let iTunes handle everything. A+ doesn't seem to mind.

[Jud]

Does Audirvana Plus actually allow you to move files around? I missed that completely. (Part of the confusion is the term library, which can be used in the context of database or actual music collection. AFAIK, Audirvana doesn't touch the actual filesystem, but I may just have missed it, since i use it mostly in iTunes parasite mode. As of last night, I finally have my album artist tagging complete for everything I own, and have moved all the crap I hate out of my main music file collection, so Audirvana is now usable to me in stand-alone mode. I still find its interface a wee bit clunky and inflexible compared to that of iTunes, but the ability to separate stuff according to album artist (or whatever your first sorting criteria are) is definitely a major advantage of iTunes).

 

A+ allows you to sort by various combinations of many criteria (mine, from memory, in the list view, are Artist -> Album -> Disc # -> Track # -> Track Name -> Composer; these and/or a dozen or so other criteria can be employed in any order desired). I don't recall offhand whether File Location is one of the sorting criteria for the library list view, or whether it is only a criterion for creation of smart playlists. In either case, this means that by either or both list sorting and creation of smart playlists, you can choose whether or not you want A+ to change where/whether an album or track appears depending on file location. For example, I have a smart playlist in A+ that will present for playback all tracks I've moved to a RAMdisk.

 

So A+ won't move the files themselves (which I like); it will change what it displays to you depending on where you have moved the files, if you tell it you want that.

[Cycleman]

This is also my understanding.

 

And as I'm too lazy and not bothered enough to invent my own file system, I just let iTunes handle everything. A+ doesn't seem to mind.

 

Pretty much the same for me. Personally, wouldn't call it lazy. Instead, for me it's just practical.

That is, I use iTunes for all ripping, importing, file organization, and metadata inserting and editing.

 

With Audirvana Plus, then, I just point it at the all-inclusive folder that iTunes creates on an external drive (red box below).

However, I do NOT synchronize it with the iTunes library (blue box below).

 

Dave, who says this method has worked perfectly on five different computers all running A+ simply by copying the music files in their iTunes designated folders