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Pro vs Audiophile Obssession

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My question is do professionals obsess over sound as audiophiles do?

i know how we audiophiles obsess about speaker - amps - sources - cables etc. I see how we spend thousands of dollars in equipment.

Do recording studios obsess over what mic- monitor speakers - consoles- cables - power? do they have a review industry that tells them about 100k microphones that would extract all the datails of sound? or six figure monitor speakers and expensive cables.

Seems to me if somebody needs to obsess over details are the pros.

i wonder if somebody had surveyed what type of equipment the major recordings studios use? How about independent recording studios?

for example one of the reasons i buy "hifi" equipment is to listen to music as close as what the engeneers hears in that recording studio. But what happens when the recording studio just have basic equipment or even crappy one? I am sure people here have better systems than a lot of studios.

i am just curious!!

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From Jonathan Scull's 1998 Stereophile interview with Jack Renner (Telarc engineer)

 

Scull: Is the mixer tweaked in any way?

 

Renner: We have used hot-rodded consoles. We had one that was internally wired with Monster Cable that we used for a long time. In fact, a number of years ago we were recording the Cincinnati Pops and the Monster Cable console went down—nothing to do with the fact that it was wired with Monster Cable, of course.

 

Scull: Of course...

 

Renner: We actually use a combination of Monster Cables and MIT. We're good friends with both Noel Lee and Bruce Brisson.

 

Scull: Imagine...

 

Renner: So a component failed in the middle of a session. We had a backup console from the same manufacturer, Neotek, and it took us only 10 minutes to set it up. Now understand, we've got a signal that's spent its whole life from the microphone output to the A/D going through Monster Cable. Then we switched to the console with the standard cable in it. And the minute I brought up the fader, everybody in the control room—not just my technical assistants and the producer, but the orchestra manager, the musicians who weren't in that particular number—they all said, "What did you do, what happened to the sound?" Everyone could hear that the soundstage got smaller. Everything just got a little more narrow and not quite as bloomy. If you ever needed a demonstration of the effects of high-performance cable, that was it.

 

So my guess is that the great recording engineers obsess over sound even more than audiophiles. Problem is nowadays most recordings (other than audiophile ones) are not so good but I think that has more to do with the loudness wars rather than lack of talent.


I have dementia. I save all my posts in a text file I call Forums.  I do a search in that file to find out what I said or did in the past.

 

I still love music.

 

Teresa

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Based ONLY on what I can stereotype from TapeOp and Sound on Sound, they want the gear to serve them, not the other way around.

 

A little less concerned about equipment jewelry.

 

Others in the pro side please weigh in...

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Of course we do. I own and operate a small studio and can safely say if the pros did not obsesses over quality, audiophiles would not exist.

Very few exceptions. Id say pros get into the industry for their love of sound and the relentless pursuit of perfection in it. They wouldnt last a minute otherwise in a very competitive industry. Tastes may vary but the end game is the same.

The Pro equipment industry is a lot bigger and more established than its Audiophile counterpart we have much to be thankful for that.

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Clocking for instance, is a big deal, and seldom even used in homes.


Forrest:

Win10 i7 3770k HQPlayer>Win10 NAA

DSD512>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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I'm sure some pros may obsess over it. But the fact that the music so often ends up being casualties of the 'loudness war', what's the point if the end product ends up clipped and distorted!?

 

Assure that we can get a good final mastering first, then obsessing over the best recording gear would make sense!


Archimago's Musings... A "more objective" audiophile blog.

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Agree, Thats one of my concerns, if we dont get a good end product then whats the point!! especially when some people have such good systems that those recordings sounds horrible. thats why i guess we have to be carefull of too much of a good thing.

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Occasionally I will go over to GearSlutz to see what is new. Reading through those posts you would definitely get the feeling that many pro audio folks look down on audiophiles.

 

Seems sorta sad since we could both learn from each other.



"Don't Believe Everything You Think"

System

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Occasionally I will go over to GearSlutz to see what is new. Reading through those posts you would definitely get the feeling that many pro audio folks look down on audiophiles.

 

Seems sorta sad since we could both learn from each other.

 

Go with the feeling. Have a look at https://www.hydrogenaud.io/forums/

Thats a group with very little sense of humor, and perhaps, joy.

 

90% or more of the posts on CA would be considered illegal there.


Andrew Bacon

'if it aint broke take it apart and find out why'

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From Jonathan Scull's 1998 Stereophile interview with Jack Renner (Telarc engineer)

Scull: Is the mixer tweaked in any way?

 

Renner: We have used hot-rodded consoles. We had one that was internally wired with Monster Cable that we used for a long time. In fact, a number of years ago we were recording the Cincinnati Pops and the Monster Cable console went down—nothing to do with the fact that it was wired with Monster Cable, of course.

 

Scull: Of course...

 

Renner: We actually use a combination of Monster Cables and MIT. We're good friends with both Noel Lee and Bruce Brisson.

 

Scull: Imagine...

 

Renner: So a component failed in the middle of a session. We had a backup console from the same manufacturer, Neotek, and it took us only 10 minutes to set it up. Now understand, we've got a signal that's spent its whole life from the microphone output to the A/D going through Monster Cable. Then we switched to the console with the standard cable in it. And the minute I brought up the fader, everybody in the control room—not just my technical assistants and the producer, but the orchestra manager, the musicians who weren't in that particular number—they all said, "What did you do, what happened to the sound?" Everyone could hear that the soundstage got smaller. Everything just got a little more narrow and not quite as bloomy. If you ever needed a demonstration of the effects of high-performance cable, that was it.

 

All this talk about montruous cables sounds a bit like "cloacked" advertising...or am I being unfairly suspicious?

 

R


"Science draws the wave, poetry fills it with water" Teixeira Pascoaes

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Not a fan of Monster cable at all. Mogami or Canare only in my studio. Cabling was the single most expensive cost for me and I've got some pretty hi-end gear. Sad but it does make a difference especially with the usual long runs found in studios.

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I doubt Monster Cable needs Teresa to advertise for them.

[/indent]

 

All this talk about montruous cables sounds a bit like "cloacked" advertising...or am I being unfairly suspicious?

 

R


Forrest:

Win10 i7 3770k HQPlayer>Win10 NAA

DSD512>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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Are you really saying that a quote from nearly 20 yrs ago should be seen as a cloaked advertorial today? If so, unfairly suspicious would be putting it mildly.

Teresa?

The quote text was


Forrest:

Win10 i7 3770k HQPlayer>Win10 NAA

DSD512>Pavel's DSC2.6>Bent Audio TAP>

Parasound JC1>Quad ESL63/Tannoy PS350B subs<100Hz

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My standard for all things in life is that 95% of anything in life is crap. Holds true pretty much for anything.

 

Same applies to pro recording engineers. I know several for local bands and the studios they use for recording and also, of course, I am observing the recording industry in general.

 

About 5% of the recording community understands high-end principles of audio recording. This is all about using good recording equipment which bypasses as many board controls as possible, using good quality ADC, mikes, cables. Placing mikes carefully so as to remove the need for mixing board controls. The more useless gizmos on the board (pots, pans, whatever) to reduce the need for good mike placement the worse the sound. Very few recording engineers are purists avoiding useless gizmos as much as possible.

 

Recording for most current music "stars" are as abysmal as their “music”.

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Good for you! Monster cable, which has some creds for starting the cable revolution in the late 70's early 80's, turned into crap in the late 80's after being bought out by the usual elite folks who understand nothing except how to drive a good product into the ground while using their name for marketing. Anyone who buys monster cable now knows nothing about sound and is just pursing/victimized by marketing.

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Not a fan of Monster cable at all. Mogami or Canare only in my studio. Cabling was the single most expensive cost for me and I've got some pretty hi-end gear. Sad but it does make a difference especially with the usual long runs found in studios.

 

Good for you! Monster cable, which has some creds for starting the cable revolution in the late 70's early 80's, turned into crap in the late 80's after being bought out by the usual elite folks who understand nothing except how to drive a good product into the ground while using their name for marketing. Anyone who buys monster cable now knows nothing about sound and is just pursing/victimized by marketing

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I prefer a producer who's a gear slut an only uses solid top of the line gear and cables. I don't like to hear any in a studio tell me, "none of that really matters".

 

However, most self proclaimed audiophiles are looked down on in the recording scene due to the stereotypes. They're like the very nerdy guy who knows Boba Fet's family lineage in Star Wars and are always in a hurry to let anyone know their opinion on gear, cables, and recordings. And of course they belong to that guy who lowers the volume on all his mastering projects and now seems to have Golden Ears. When anyone in the industry needs a laugh they read posts at his forum. There's even an anti-forum dedicated to this "Golden Eared" mastering guru that pops most of his holier than thou posts.

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I think you have to remember the Pros are pros. As in they make their living that way. They might with all their heart not want to take part in the loudness war. However, if a paying client wants it squashed, then they are hired guns and will squash it. Their customers are paying for their services and if you don't make the customer happy you won't be in business long.

 

Don't judge them too harshly. I would imagine many who are employed by others operate the same. You might get paid to do a job which isn't exactly to your liking altogether, but you do what you are paid to do.


To paraphrase Rick James, "sighted listening is a helluva drug".

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I think Pros tend to look down for the obvious reasons. Voodoo doesn't cut it in the studio. Solid equipment and knowledge does.

 

I've been through the videos / links and for the life of me I've kept an eye out for all the esoteric bullshit that I keep seeing from audiophiles and have yet to see it.

 

I don't see USB dongles, cable lifters, $200 / ft interconnects or speaker cables. No spatial sticks etc.... Watch the videos. When you see the equipment racks pause the videos and take a look.

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I think Pros tend to look down for the obvious reasons. Voodoo doesn't cut it in the studio. Solid equipment and knowledge does.

 

I've been through the videos / links and for the life of me I've kept an eye out for all the esoteric bullshit that I keep seeing from audiophiles and have yet to see it.

 

I don't see USB dongles, cable lifters, $200 / ft interconnects or speaker cables. No spatial sticks etc.... Watch the videos. When you see the equipment racks pause the videos and take a look.

 

Well, that just shows to go you that professional audio producers really have a lot they can learn from audiophiles, just like physicists have a lot of new unexplored realms of physical phenomena that could be theirs to populate their shelves with Nobel prizes, if only they would take the observations of audiophiles more seriously.


--

Do facts matter?

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I prefer a producer who's a gear slut an only uses solid top of the line gear and cables. I don't like to hear any in a studio tell me, "none of that really matters".

 

However, most self proclaimed audiophiles are looked down on in the recording scene due to the stereotypes. They're like the very nerdy guy who knows Boba Fet's family lineage in Star Wars and are always in a hurry to let anyone know their opinion on gear, cables, and recordings. And of course they belong to that guy who lowers the volume on all his mastering projects and now seems to have Golden Ears. When anyone in the industry needs a laugh they read posts at his forum. There's even an anti-forum dedicated to this "Golden Eared" mastering guru that pops most of his holier than thou posts.

 

And just honwoulf this so despised engineer be? And who might you be in your real life? Sure looks a bit like anonymous aniping to me...


Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC.

Robert A. Heinlein

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I think Pros tend to look down for the obvious reasons. Voodoo doesn't cut it in the studio. Solid equipment and knowledge does.

 

I've been through the videos / links and for the life of me I've kept an eye out for all the esoteric bullshit that I keep seeing from audiophiles and have yet to see it.

 

I don't see USB dongles, cable lifters, $200 / ft interconnects or speaker cables. No spatial sticks etc.... Watch the videos. When you see the equipment racks pause the videos and take a look.

 

Don't know what Cookie Marenco's cables (which I believe she makes herself) cost, but she does pay attention to cables at least. I've got no idea if she uses any of the rest of what you've listed. Pierre Sprey of Mapleshade uses his own stuff in making his recordings, and yes, there are cable lifts along with his own esoteric cables.

 

Regardless of the believability or otherwise of anything they say, the recordings coming from these two producers sound really, really good. There are certainly other producers who don't use this sort of stuff who get good sound as well. More than one way to do it, I suppose.


One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> microRendu -> USPCB -> ISO Regen (powered by LPS-1) -> Ghent JSSG360 USB cable -> Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 DAC ->

Spectral DMC-12 & DMA-150 -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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So my guess is that the great recording engineers obsess over sound even more than audiophiles.

 

 

Having been on both sides, audiophiles are vastly more obsessive about sound quality than the pros.


Dedicated Line DSD/DXD | Audirvana+ | iFi iDSD Nano | SET Tube Amp | Totem Mites

Surround: VLC | M-Audio FastTrack Pro | Mac Opt | Panasonic SA-HE100 | Logitech Z623

DIY: SET Tube Amp | Low-Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply | USB, Power, Speaker Cables | Speaker Stands | Acoustic Panels

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