The first mile: What power stations are best for audio?

[gmgraves]

At least in the UK you can't control this... in fact your power doesn't come from just one power station (unless you are off the grid with your own private generation facility).

 

 

It doesn't come from just one power station in a lot of countries. Here in the USA, every commercial power station in the country (and in Canada, as well) are tied together in the North American Power Grid. While I don't know if all of the EU is similarly connected, I do know that Europe still uses several different mains plug types including that rather flimsy 2- round prong plug as well as the overly robust British three-pronged flat bladed plug. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the entire Continent on 220 Volt/50 Hz? I've spent a lot of time in Italy, Austria, Germany, Switzerland, France and Spain, and it seems to me that they all use the same plug and have the same voltage. I wonder if those countries are all "grided" together? Anyone know for sure? Before today, I'd never given the matter much thought.

[gmgraves]

Coming to a garage near you. Tesla powerwall....yup, can even link to the solar cells.

 

 

Many pundits think that the future of electric power is very local generation (like with a fuel cell in each home). Frankly, I think it's a step backwards. Grid-sourced electric power is reliable, fairly cheap, and pretty safe. The move to de-centralize production by using a myriad of production methods should not have to result in an abandonment of the power grid system of distribution. Nuclear, coal, gas, wind, hydro, solar, ocean wave power, geothermal, water temperature gradation, even fuel cells should all be able to work together on the power grid for the foreseeable future. I must say though that I'm not a fan of current nuclear technology, but apparently there is an emerging technology for nuclear power that leaves no waste to dispose of and the reaction is self limiting (i.e. it can't do a Fukushima Daiichi meltdown). When that's ready for primetime, I'll revisit my objections to nuclear power. In the meantime, don't look for much on the fusion front (they've been working on it essentially all of my life and have not made very much progress). 50 years ago, I was sure that we would have had it long before now (but then, 50 years ago, I would have bet that we would have landed a man on Mars in the 1980s). I'm not holding my breath.

[gmgraves]

If you are considering moving, why not instead clean up the crap that comes out of your wall socket along with the electricity using a decent power cleaner?

 

I use the Monster Power HDP 1800 High Definition PowerCenter™.

 

A quote from Noel Lee:

 

"Ordinary unfiltered AC power contains electromagnetic and radio frequency noise that degrades the picture and sound quality of your home theater. Monster PowerCenters feature patented Monster Clean PowerTM filter circuitry that virtually stops the electromagnetic pollution that goes right through typical surge protectors. Clean Power circuitry filters both external AC powerline noise and also dramatically reduces noise generated by AV equipment connected to the PowerCenter."

 

---

 

Don't plug your good power cable into a raw wall socket, clean up the power first. If you clean up the electricity coming out of the wall socket first the first mile doesn't matter as much as the last 6 ft from the power conditioner to the power cable to your precious components.

 

 

And I have this: Biggest improvement to my system that I ever made!

 

[gmgraves]

I'm actually not joking. Generally the battery solutions have been limiting because of not enough reserve in transients. But a massive Tesla battery together with a massive DC->AC should be able to cope methinks. Even better would be no AC in the middle...

 

Any distribution grid will pick up electromagnetic noise. This is unavoidable. The only way around it is to filter it out (or be off grid obviously as in the Tesla case). Filtering as always is a tricky thing as it adds impedance to the distribution making it slower.

 

 

And you get the side benefit of spectacular fires as well! Have you ever seen a Tesla car melt-down? Impressive.

[LCC0256]

Any power plant that runs on solar energy, wind, or something ecological. Just to annoy the climate change deniers.

 

says the egocentric boy who believes he and other humans have more impact on the weather than solar activity...gee i should feel so important

[wgscott]

says the egocentric boy who believes he and other humans have more impact on the weather than solar activity...gee i should feel so important

 

Let me guess, you also think audiophiles can discover new physics with their power cords.

[zerung]

Living Voice's implimentation must be very cool! sonically.

6moons.com - industry features: Living Voice's Definitive Audio

[One and a half]

Many pundits think that the future of electric power is very local generation (like with a fuel cell in each home). Frankly, I think it's a step backwards. Grid-sourced electric power is reliable, fairly cheap, and pretty safe. The move to de-centralize production by using a myriad of production methods should not have to result in an abandonment of the power grid system of distribution. Nuclear, coal, gas, wind, hydro, solar, ocean wave power, geothermal, water temperature gradation, even fuel cells should all be able to work together on the power grid for the foreseeable future. I must say though that I'm not a fan of current nuclear technology, but apparently there is an emerging technology for nuclear power that leaves no waste to dispose of and the reaction is self limiting (i.e. it can't do a Fukushima Daiichi meltdown). When that's ready for primetime, I'll revisit my objections to nuclear power. In the meantime, don't look for much on the fusion front (they've been working on it essentially all of my life and have not made very much progress). 50 years ago, I was sure that we would have had it long before now (but then, 50 years ago, I would have bet that we would have landed a man on Mars in the 1980s). I'm not holding my breath.

 

In some countries electricity is not cheap at some USD0.22/kwhr mainly brought on by zealous governments looking for easy cash. The problem is then, the demand for electricity drops, since everyone saves and doesn't use the stuff as much. Hello, the government still demands their cut, so the price goes up again to compensate in a never ending upward price spiral.

 

This is a classic accounting/marketing/visionless bungle. Affordability of solar panels adds salt in the wounds in the reduction of demand (and revenue), since there are less houses using grid power than ever before. Generating your own power means you have to deal with non linear loads and the impact that has on the reduction of real power for your appliances as a downside. Audio is then better on the grid, since the harmonic distortion is lower, albeit at a higher price.

Unless your generation takes into account non linear loads (that includes linear power supplies ) so you don't have to worry too much. Pedal power sounds good a lot of it, or some water/turbine circuit for generation.

[audio6]

Stalking posts where direct threats are made against participants

 

guy that was stalking me and a few other people

 

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." -Joseph Goebbels

 

You've accused others of this tactic of repeating a lie. Apparently, you're quite familiar with the tactic and rather fond of using it yourself.

[Boris75]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the entire Continent on 220 Volt/50 Hz? I've spent a lot of time in Italy, Austria, Germany, Switzerland, France and Spain, and it seems to me that they all use the same plug and have the same voltage. I wonder if those countries are all "grided" together? Anyone know for sure? Before today, I'd never given the matter much thought.

 

Yes, European power networks are integrated, though not perfectly as there are some bottlenecks, which are becoming more severe with the ramping up of renewable capacity (because renewable sources are not located in the same places as conventional plant and investment in transmission lines is lagging behind).

[gmgraves]

Yes, European power networks are integrated, though not perfectly as there are some bottlenecks, which are becoming more severe with the ramping up of renewable capacity (because renewable sources are not located in the same places as conventional plant and investment in transmission lines is lagging behind).

 

 

Thank you for your answer. Much appreciated.

[Allan F]

Avoid Three Mile Island unless you want a complete meltdown of your system.

[Boris75]

Avoid Three Mile Island unless you want a complete meltdown of your system.

 

 

That's a good one - but there my system could really make my music glow.

[wgscott]

"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." -Joseph Goebbels

 

You've accused others of this tactic of repeating a lie. Apparently, you're quite familiar with the tactic and rather fond of using it yourself.

 

Yet you just proved my point. It is amazing what you can observe just by watching.

[crenca]

I acutally appreciate Boris75's take on this subject. Those very high dollar power cords are a strange thing for me to grasp. Sort of like take a long chain, and then removing a single link and replacing it with a link that is overengineered by a 1000% compared to all the rest - what is the point?

 

Those "audiophile" big buck USB cables are closer to my wheelhouse. They seem to rely on the ignorance of their purchaser as to what exactly a signal that transports a digital layer (yes, the physical layer is always "analog") is, and how the whole chain works. Yes, the cable can be a problem - up to a point, and then it is a transport.

 

When reviews of these cables say things like "this cable really nails the midrange" it is clear they don't understand what a digital signal is and how the degradation of that signal would occur, and how that degradation would affect the data...

[sandyk]

forgotten technology from the past What is a Constant Voltage Transformer - an introduction to the perfect sine wave

constant voltage transformer

 

Interesting.

It probably isn't used too much due to the need to have a different value of capacitance for every output voltage version of the transformer, and centre tapped windings as well as single secondary windings .

[One and a half]

Interesting.

It probably isn't used too much due to the need to have a different value of capacitance for every output voltage version of the transformer, and centre tapped windings as well as single secondary windings .

 

The CVT are used for mainly for commercial line voltages, 400V, 230V, 120V rather than 40-0-40 if that's what you're thinking about.

 

CVTs do a great job, and reliability is very high, at the expense of mass, a 2kVA single phase unit is some 63kg, wow, heavier than my wife in a 50th of the size

[sandyk]

The CVT are used for mainly for commercial line voltages, 400V, 230V, 120V rather than 40-0-40 if that's what you're thinking about.

 

CVTs do a great job, and reliability is very high, at the expense of mass, a 2kVA single phase unit is some 63kg, wow, heavier than my wife in a 50th of the size

 

Anyone for a Hernia ?

Have you tried using one for isolation purposes ?

[4est]

The problem with analogies is often that one attempts to extrapolate way beyond the original situation in an attempt to prove/disprove. Here, it is obviously some sort of bash. If indeed there were to be differences in power generation, it is likely the type of turbine, not the heat source.

I acutally appreciate Boris75's take on this subject. Those very high dollar power cords are a strange thing for me to grasp. Sort of like take a long chain, and then removing a single link and replacing it with a link that is overengineered by a 1000% compared to all the rest - what is the point?

 

Those "audiophile" big buck USB cables are closer to my wheelhouse. They seem to rely on the ignorance of their purchaser as to what exactly a signal that transports a digital layer (yes, the physical layer is always "analog") is, and how the whole chain works. Yes, the cable can be a problem - up to a point, and then it is a transport.

 

When reviews of these cables say things like "this cable really nails the midrange" it is clear they don't understand what a digital signal is and how the degradation of that signal would occur, and how that degradation would affect the data...

[LCC0256]

Let me guess, you also think audiophiles can discover new physics with their power cords.

Not sure of how you made that leap in reasoning WG but...As far as that particular subject is concerned i do know there are people on this forum WHO DO BELIEVE that those power cords make a difference in their listening enjoyment..just because i can't doesn't mean it is not so. i do NOT qualify as an "audiophile" BTW.. The one thing i do know for a fact is that i find the original posting extremely amusing. i laughed out loud and that something i do far to infrequently....

[One and a half]

Anyone for a Hernia ?

Have you tried using one for isolation purposes ?

 

CVTs would be a useful isolation tool, by looks of the devices, I think that's what George Graves has. I don't have one, but feasible for use with a square wave solar inverter. The smaller VA models are manageable, great for source components.

[One and a half]

While I don't know if all of the EU is similarly connected, I do know that Europe still uses several different mains plug types including that rather flimsy 2- round prong plug as well as the overly robust British three-pronged flat bladed plug.

 

I wouldn't label the Schuko as flimsy at all. Oyaide and Furutech for example make a very good Schuko suitable for cable diameter of about 15mm, nothing flimsy about them. The Nema 5-15P has one plus, in that it's smaller than the Schuko (or any 230V plug), mainly due to the lower voltage and creep distances.

[LCC0256]

One and a half...i liked your previous avatar. That face/expression looked to me as someone who understood the math behind computers/EE/sound reproduction (as you obviously do) - coupled with a discerning ear (which you obviously have) and was going mind numb over all the challenges and changes one can make to a system in pursuit of the "perfect sound" Plus since i greatly enjoy reading your posts (whether i completely understand the content or not) it was easy for me to pick them out!

[mansr]

It doesn't come from just one power station in a lot of countries. Here in the USA, every commercial power station in the country (and in Canada, as well) are tied together in the North American Power Grid. While I don't know if all of the EU is similarly connected, I do know that Europe still uses several different mains plug types including that rather flimsy 2- round prong plug as well as the overly robust British three-pronged flat bladed plug.

 

Oh the irony, an American calling a European power plug flimsy.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't the entire Continent on 220 Volt/50 Hz?

 

More or less. 230 V is nominal for most of continental Europe while Britain has 240 V. The voltage can obviously vary depending on load conditions and distance from the transformer. At home (in Britain) I usually have 245-249 V. Voltages as low as 215 V are also considered acceptable.

 

I've spent a lot of time in Italy, Austria, Germany, Switzerland, France and Spain, and it seems to me that they all use the same plug and have the same voltage. I wonder if those countries are all "grided" together? Anyone know for sure? Before today, I'd never given the matter much thought.

 

The plugs are actually not as similar as they appear at first glance. Especially the ground connection varies considerably, and Italy even has two different types (high and low current). The Europlug is a flat two-pronged connector (no ground) compatible with the sockets in most of continental Europe, and most grounded plugs work everywhere except Italy. And then there's Britain.

[gmgraves]

Avoid Three Mile Island unless you want a complete meltdown of your system.

 

 

Actually, nothing very bad happened at Three Mile Island, but it could have. That should have been a wake-up call for the entire nuclear power industry. If it had been, maybe we could have avoided Chernobyl and Fukushimi Daiichi. Now those are real disasters. Nuclear power is simply too dangerous to fool with in it's present form!