Design a PC/Server for ROON and HQ Player

[Forehaven]

Deleted

[orgel]

So it's hard to find a mac with appropriate capacity for going to DSD512.

I am looking and not finding an imac with i7...

 

I don't know if it will do DSD512, but I recently acquired a "27-inch iMac with Retina 5K display" that has a 4.0GHz i7.

 

I think the "cheapest" iMac you can get with an i7 is a "21.5-inch iMac with Retina 4K display" which you can order with a 3.3GHz i7. Not really cheap, but significantly cheaper than the base-model Mac Pro (3.7GHz quad-core Xeon).

 

(You can also get a Mac mini with a 3.0GHz dual-core i7; i.e., not the quad-core i7's that you get with the iMacs.)

 

--David (starting to think that Windows will be needed if he wants to do DSD512)

[jabbr]

Please check out the per-core load graphs in Resource Monitor. If any one of the cores is maxed out, then hiccups are likely to occur. Also note that for CPUs with HyperThreading, the CPU is practically fully loaded at 50% total load, because the virtual second CPU's from HT don't really help much with HQPlayer type of work loads.

 

Here are per core loads:

 

No real difference between short-mp and short-mp-2s but the former stutters and the latter works well?

[jabbr]

Here is poly-sinc-mp on left and -2s on right:

[Dev]

Dev: I do not have a DAC that does DSD512. I was just suggesting a fan less box. I have not tried graphic card off-loading yet. So far for my 2-ch HQP or IB I am using an HDPlex 300W LPS (it sees about 70W total load with i7 6700, 3.4 GHz, and I will try down clocking once things settle down).

 

 

Others can correct me but my guess is that even with hdplex 300w, it will be short of power doing DSD512. The computation is very cpu intensive for DSD512 from what I gather and the efficiency of a linear power supply is also very less, say around 50-60%.

[sig8]

Others can correct me but my guess is that even with hdplex 300w, it will be short of power doing DSD512. The computation is very cpu intensive for DSD512 from what I gather and the efficiency of a linear power supply is also very less, say around 50-60%.

 

What I understand is that if you go with a 6700K i7, it has a TDP of 95W; that is the most it will consume under full load, which is hard to get to. Next power consumption you need to consider is graphics card, see how much that can consume at the most, rest of the things will be fairly constant, unless you have lot of peripherals connected.

[firedog]

Can HQP dummy-upsample to DSD512 without being connected to a DAC just to see what load it generates?

 

I believe this hasn't been answered yet. Is there a way to do this? My DAC can't take high DSD rates, but I'd like to see if my server can do it, especially as at some point in the not to distant future I'll be replacing the DAC with one that can.

[RootsRocker]

What I understand is that if you go with a 6700K i7, it has a TDP of 95W; that is the most it will consume under full load, which is hard to get to. Next power consumption you need to consider is graphics card, see how much that can consume at the most, rest of the things will be fairly constant, unless you have lot of peripherals connected.

Is the 91 TDP for the CPU a mean or average and not necessarily the most heat it can create? under heavy load I thought the heat generated could increase, I may be wrong , but the graphics cards 160 w+ ( depends on what you use - this is a NVidia 960 w/2GB example. who knows how much power the new Pascal architecture cards need, the 1080 fpr example - which is what I will get ), vid cards are the heaviest power users , I used Ted's example and ordered the parts for a tower w/ fans as it was going to be in the bedroom and the mR & Dac would be in the listening room. Couldn't find a good fanless solution & reviews of excessive heat from Larry's 300 watt PS didn't seem to be what I needed ( My HD Plex 100 PS does run quite hot ) . Build will begin this week

[edbk]

TDP is a parameter to determine cooling requirements. The actual power consumption is higher then the tdp, usually atleast 1.5 times higher. Besides this Skylake is harder to cool then previous generations.

[edbk]

I have built with HDplex H5 case; passively cooled. i7 6700 at 65 TDP. That case can handle 95 TDP (6700K).

 

That wont do, the cooling surface area of the heatsinks is simply no way near sufficient to run dsd512 on a 6700K at high quality settings at a normal roomtemperature. May just about run on a regular 6700 with the windows powerprofile set for low power consumption.

[ismewor]

Others can correct me but my guess is that even with hdplex 300w, it will be short of power doing DSD512. The computation is very cpu intensive for DSD512 from what I gather and the efficiency of a linear power supply is also very less, say around 50-60%.

 

It's all depend on your linear power supply quality and regulators. Your bottleneck is that DC-DC power supply. Which will bought down your overall performance.

[Dev]

It's all depend on your linear power supply quality and regulators. Your bottleneck is that DC-DC power supply. Which will bought down your overall performance.

 

 

Hdplex 300w is an ATX linear power supply and don’t need a DC-DC converter in between.

[edbk]

The 6700k draws 8.5A on 12V2 during filter setup which is 102 watts. The hdplex looks like it should cope powerwise. The LT1083 used isnt very wide bandwidth though, there are plenty switching regulators which will likely perform better in this location.

[tsaett]

I'm in the process of upgrading my cpu to a quad xeon e3 1271v3 with 3,6ghz and 3,8 turbo which is the max I could accommodate without changing anything other than the chip. The specs are just a tad below the 6700k which does not fit my board.

 

My question to the guys who already got DSD512 working: are you able to upsample to 512 and use matrix room correction at the same time without CUDA offload?

Miska suggested that for this kind of load CUDA would help but I'm hoping to build a system that is just enough capable without going crazy on expenses.

Could somebody with say a 6700k please check this?

 

In my current dsd128 rig, room correction does not add that much load on the cpu monitor, but if a 6700k struggles with that, I can discard my plan right away.

 

Thanks, Christoph

[edbk]

Dsd512 upsampling and room correction (acourate generated filter) works on a 6700k here

[tsaett]

Thanks Emile, very helpful!

As you have extensive knowledge in this field: would you consider this chip capable of the job by looking at the raw specs?

haswell 22nm architecture, 3,8ghz turbo on 4 cores, 8mb cache, 80W TDP.

 

I know you prefer skylake soundwise, but i just want a working machine to evaluate first.

 

Christoph

[edbk]

I havent tried, would guess yes but no guarantuees. Am sure itll work using the -2s filters. It does work on a 5960x running at 3.5GHz but it has 8 cores very long filter setup time on haswell though.

[Miska]

My question to the guys who already got DSD512 working: are you able to upsample to 512 and use matrix room correction at the same time without CUDA offload?

 

Depends on your filter lengths and source sampling rate. With RedBook content the extra load of room correction is small, but doing it for DSD sources can get pretty heavy...

[tsaett]

Thank you both, I think I go for it.

Is there a way to tell HQPlayer to upsample PCM content to 512 and dsd content to 128 or 256 without changing the frequency manually every time? This would seem like a good compromise in this context.

[shahed99]

I believe this hasn't been answered yet. Is there a way to do this? My DAC can't take high DSD rates, but I'd like to see if my server can do it, especially as at some point in the not to distant future I'll be replacing the DAC with one that can.

 

I like to know the answer to this question as well.

[Solstice380]

Awesome Server PC Available in (mostly Midwest/Eastern) US

 

If you have a MicroCenter store near you check out this awesome deal! Available for in-store purchase only. Limit 1. It is built and backed by MicroCenter. It's got everything you need to be an excellent server machine for Roon/HQP/DSD512 upsampling. I can't believe the price on this is only US$1199. Quick specs:

 

i7-6700K

16 GB G-skill DDR4-3000 RAM

nVidia GeForce 970 GPU

Hyper CPU cooler

ASRock Z170 gaming mobo

500W PSU

 

PowerSpec G416 Desktop Computer 915314 - Micro Center

 

For a modest fee I'd go get one for somebody and send it to them. This is a steal!!

[hifial]

I have also posted this build on the T+A DAC 8 DSD thread and the HQ Player thread.

 

First please keep in mind that I am going as simple and as cost effective but with sound quality in mind. I plan on using this PC till I can use a much better replacement, hopefully sooner then later. But for most people this will work very well. If one wants to spend about two to three times as much then you could get better sound and options. I am using external storage, in my case a NAS. I am not using a separate Graphics Card with Cuda as I am looking for less noise. I am not using separate power supply for the SSD but might later (and for the NAS). This is in context with using the T+A DAC 8 DSD and HQ Player up-sampling all rates to 512DSD.

 

Also I must thank Larry and a few others for their help and guidance in this matter. All prices are approximate street.

 

CPU-Intel 17 6700K (a must) $350+/-

 

MB - Asus Z170M-Plus Micro ATX LGA 1151 (this is one choice) $125+/-

 

PS - Seasonic Platinum SS-400 FL2 400w Fanless (this is one choice) $100+/-

 

CPU Cooler - Noctua NH-C14S (use fan in lower position - one choice) $80+/-

 

SSD - Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SATA III (no need for Pro - one choice) $90+/-

 

RAM - ADATA XPG Z1 DDR 2400 8GB (2x4GB) (one choice and 8GB is fine here but if one wants go to 16GB) this one is as high as $75+ to as low as $35

 

Case - Silverstone GD09B ATX Media Center (this case has a lot of ventilation and is inexpensive - one choice) $75+/-

 

OS - W10 Pro 64 Bit (Pro 64Bit a must) $140+/-

 

Added Software - HQ Player + ROON + AO IMHO all THREE are required.

 

Hope this helps.

[Forehaven]

I have also posted this build on the T+A DAC 8 DSD thread and the HQ Player thread.

 

First please keep in mind that I am going as simple and as cost effective but with sound quality in mind. I plan on using this PC till I can use a much better replacement, hopefully sooner then later. But for most people this will work very well. If one wants to spend about two to three times as much then you could get better sound and options. I am using external storage, in my case a NAS. I am not using a separate Graphics Card with Cuda as I am looking for less noise. I am not using separate power supply for the SSD but might later (and for the NAS). This is in context with using the T+A DAC 8 DSD and HQ Player up-sampling all rates to 512DSD.

 

Also I must thank Larry and a few others for their help and guidance in this matter. All prices are approximate street.

 

CPU-Intel 17 6700K (a must) $350+/-

 

MB - Asus Z170M-Plus Micro ATX LGA 1151 (this is one choice) $125+/-

 

PS - Seasonic Platinum SS-400 FL2 400w Fanless (this is one choice) $100+/-

 

CPU Cooler - Noctua NH-C14S (use fan in lower position - one choice) $80+/-

 

SSD - Samsung 850 EVO 250GB SATA III (no need for Pro - one choice) $90+/-

 

RAM - ADATA XPG Z1 DDR 2400 8GB (2x4GB) (one choice and 8GB is fine here but if one wants go to 16GB) this one is as high as $75+ to as low as $35

 

Case - Silverstone GD09B ATX Media Center (this case has a lot of ventilation and is inexpensive - one choice) $75+/-

 

OS - W10 Pro 64 Bit (Pro 64Bit a must) $140+/-

 

Added Software - HQ Player + ROON + AO IMHO all THREE are required.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks hifial! Actually Ted gave me his specs and I basically bought the same, and very similar to yours.

 

6700k Skylake, a Seasonic ps, a Noctua, Fractal Design case, Kingston ram, and this ssd: SAMSUNG 850 EVO M.2 250GB SATA III 3-D Vertical Internal SSD Single Unit Version MZ-N5E250BW - Newegg.com I hope/pretty sure it's the M.2 version lol

Appreciate all the help and support everyone,

Chris

[ted_b]

Chris, I use a standard 2.5" SSD and power it separately (SOtM battery pack or iFi iUSB power supply). An m-sata ought to be good, though, too.

[hifial]

Chris, I use a standard 2.5" SSD and power it separately (SOtM battery pack or iFi iUSB power supply). An m-sata ought to be good, though, too.

 

 

Ted, can you compare the two power supplies as to sound vs price? TIA