Design a PC/Server for ROON and HQ Player

[jabbr]

1 hour ago, Solstice380 said:

@jabbr  I'm assembling the components for an i9-9900KS build and stumbled across this review that has some comments about the Ryzen 3900 being better at heavily loaded multi-thread operations.  The 3900 max speed is 4.6GHz vs the 5.2 they got OC'ing the KS.  Not sure how the 10900K stacks up.

 

https://www.techpowerup.com/review/intel-core-i9-9900ks/20.html

 

Have you purchased / progressed with the build yet?

I’m holding off for the moment. 
 

Im looking at doing heavy math processing in my build. Regarding HQP that means room correction and digital crossovers at high DSD rates. The same build will be used for an inferencing/AI  project. I’m toying around with an NVME external array build. PCIe lanes are important because 100Gbe needs PCIe-3 x16. The GPU (2080) needs the same. The Intel 1150 platform doesn’t have the needed lanes. AMD is out ahead with PCIe-4 — but my gear is PCIe-3 ... I’m getting ConnectX-4 100Gbe cards at $130-150 ... this stuff is magic

 

so ... yeah waiting to see the OC possibilities on the 10900k or Ryzen 4 

 

That said if you are designing a server purely for HQP, and you have a 9900ks then by all means go for it — get really fast memory! It’s the current king for high clock rate.

[Miska]

4 hours ago, jabbr said:

Im looking at doing heavy math processing in my build. Regarding HQP that means room correction and digital crossovers at high DSD rates. The same build will be used for an inferencing/AI  project. I’m toying around with an NVME external array build. PCIe lanes are important because 100Gbe needs PCIe-3 x16. The GPU (2080) needs the same. The Intel 1150 platform doesn’t have the needed lanes. AMD is out ahead with PCIe-4 — but my gear is PCIe-3 ... I’m getting ConnectX-4 100Gbe cards at $130-150 ... this stuff is magic

 

I'm looking to upgrade my old Xeon E5 workstation with a new Xeon W2245 one. It has 48 PCIe v3 lanes. It also has AVX-512 instructions.

 

[luisma]

18 hours ago, Miska said:

Xeon E5 workstation with a new Xeon W2245 one

Do you forecast Jussi this xeon will perform better than the 9900K and Ryzen 3900?

[luisma]

On 3/15/2020 at 2:33 PM, Miska said:

new Xeon W2245

how about the 2255? only a few bucks more but 2 more cores and price per core will be less.....

I believe I misunderstood, this CPU you are considering is for your development workstation, not exactly for HQP upsampling .... I might have confused the meaning

[Energy]

I have a question that is hard for me to answer.

 

If using one graphic card runs the PCI-E slot at x16, but using two graphic cards is x8/x8... Would one graphic card still be operating at x8 even if the second card is a JCAT Net Card operating at x1?

 

Now if it does do x8 and x1, does that mean I would have x7 additional PCI-E lanes that directly connects to the CPU? Outside of the x4 that I'm already given for NVMe drives that is.. This is for the AMD X470/X570 chipset by the way.

[Marcin_gps]

1 hour ago, Energy said:

I have a question that is hard for me to answer.

 

If using one graphic card runs the PCI-E slot at x16, but using two graphic cards is x8/x8... Would one graphic card still be operating at x8 even if the second card is a JCAT Net Card operating at x1?

 

Now if it does do x8 and x1, does that mean I would have x7 additional PCI-E lanes that directly connects to the CPU? Outside of the x4 that I'm already given for NVMe drives that is.. This is for the AMD X470/X570 chipset by the way.

 

I'd check a block diagram of  your motherboard and it will be 100% clear which PCIe slots connect to CPU directly. 

 

Regards, 

Marcin

[Miska]

6 hours ago, luisma said:

how about the 2255? only a few bucks more but 2 more cores and price per core will be less.....

I believe I misunderstood, this CPU you are considering is for your development workstation, not exactly for HQP upsampling .... I might have confused the meaning

 

It shaves off 200 MHz from the base clock. My development workstation is supposed to be able to run HQPlayer upsampling properly. Currently it cannot do ASDM7EC to DSD256 which is a problem because I need to copy the binaries to another machine for testing which makes work slower.

 

Optimally the CPU would be a Xeon W, but otherwise have specs like i9-9900KS - there just isn't one such.

 

[Energy]

5 hours ago, Marcin_gps said:

 

I'd check a block diagram of  your motherboard and it will be 100% clear which PCIe slots connect to CPU directly. 

 

I know what slot connects to the CPU directly and am using it. It's just unclear if the JCAT using a x1 from the x8 slot would make the graphic card switch into x8 from x16 mode of not.

[mikicasellas]

Is anyone here trying powering a server with some different choices ?

 

Im powering my AMD RYZEN 7 3700X CPU direct from the HDPLEX 200W with its 12V output

and the ASUS ROG Strix X470-I MoBo thru the HDPLEX 800w DCATX converter, ( all cables are Ghent JSSG360 inside this server ).

Has anyone here tried different approach with good results ?

 

I think i will try connecting the CPU thru the HDPLEX 800w DCATX with the INPUT 2, whereas the Mobo is in its INPUT 1, thing is i will try it with the stock EPS cable that came with the HDPLEX H5 fanless case...

 

Suggestions ?

 

 

[elan120]

15 minutes ago, mikicasellas said:

I think i will try connecting the CPU thru the HDPLEX 800w DCATX with the INPUT 2

Just curious, what would you be powering group-2 of the HDPlex 800W DC-ATX with?

[mikicasellas]

54 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Just curious, what would you be powering group-2 of the HDPlex 800W DC-ATX with?

I never thought about that, so i could not 😬

 

Even though i connected to the same INPUT 1 where the MOBO is connected and even with the stock Eps cable, i feel so far, that the job that the 800W DCATX does is better than connecting the HDPLEX 200w direct from its 12v output to the CPU even with the Ghent cable...

[elan120]

2 minutes ago, mikicasellas said:

I never thought about that, so i could not 😬

 

Even though i connected to the same INPUT 1 where the MOBO is connected and even with the stock Eps cable, i feel so far, that the job that the 800W DCATX does is better than connecting the HDPLEX 200w direct from its 12v output to the CPU even with the Ghent cable...

I recently done some experiments by first using one Keces P8 to power HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter, and power the EPS on the motherboard, but still using the original Seasonic power supply for ATX with better result.  Later I added a second Keces P8 to power both group1 and group2 on HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter, where group1 is powering ATX and group2 is powering EPS, and this brought even better result.  I could stop here, but decided to push the experiment a bit further, so I am now in a process to build a pair of power supplies to power both ATX and EPS directly without going through HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter to see how well this is going work.  So far, based on what I have done, good quality power to EPS make more improvement than ATX, and this seems to be consistent with few other people I talked to.  If you can have top quality power supplies on both ATX and EPS, then this is a non-issue, but if you can only have one top quality power supply, then put that on EPS.

[mikicasellas]

1 hour ago, elan120 said:

I recently done some experiments by first using one Keces P8 to power HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter, and power the EPS on the motherboard, but still using the original Seasonic power supply for ATX with better result.  Later I added a second Keces P8 to power both group1 and group2 on HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter, where group1 is powering ATX and group2 is powering EPS, and this brought even better result.  I could stop here, but decided to push the experiment a bit further, so I am now in a process to build a pair of power supplies to power both ATX and EPS directly without going through HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter to see how well this is going work.  So far, based on what I have done, good quality power to EPS make more improvement than ATX, and this seems to be consistent with few other people I talked to.  If you can have top quality power supplies on both ATX and EPS, then this is a non-issue, but if you can only have one top quality power supply, then put that on EPS.

Thanks for the suggestions

[StreamFidelity]

7 hours ago, elan120 said:

Later I added a second Keces P8 to power both group1 and group2 on HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter, where group1 is powering ATX and group2 is powering EPS, and this brought even better result. 

 

It is an interesting option. I am currently using a double CPU EPS supply like this:

 

 

I am pursuing another idea with the project DIY Project High Performance Audio PC with high quality wiring. The second Keces P8 should supply the second CPU EPS rail (EATX12V_2) with power. Again, the idea is to supply the CPU with a lot of power. However, I still don't know if it works technically.

 

 

 

I have the following questions:
1. Is it better for CPU Power to bypass the HDPLEX DC / ATX converter to avoid ripple noise (10mV) or
2. Is it better to give the CPU as much power as possible, for example to improve support the computing-intensive EC modulators of the HQPlayer?

[Marcin_gps]

16 hours ago, Energy said:

 

I know what slot connects to the CPU directly and am using it. It's just unclear if the JCAT using a x1 from the x8 slot would make the graphic card switch into x8 from x16 mode of not.

 

that's unlikely to change other slot's behaviour. You should be able to see it in BIOS

 

regards, 

Marcin

[mikicasellas]

14 hours ago, mikicasellas said:

I never thought about that, so i could not 😬

 

Even though i connected to the same INPUT 1 where the MOBO is connected and even with the stock Eps cable, i feel so far, that the job that the 800W DCATX does is better than connecting the HDPLEX 200w direct from its 12v output to the CPU even with the Ghent cable...

My impressions were wrong, i re-connected the Ghent JSSG360 to the HDPLEX 200W 12V output to connect the EPS direct and WOW the change is very very significant... i don't know maybe after a week of letting the cable to settle from new and being disconnected and reconnected again made it finally to open more, cause the sound was "dirt" with some glare in voices even yesterday before i made the change that i was believing was better or maybe because i changed the USB input of the MOBO, i dunno but now the sound is amazing, hoping it won't change...so far im satisfied and a JCAT USB card is still on the build soon

 

Hope this helps !!

[elan120]

6 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

1. Is it better for CPU Power to bypass the HDPLEX DC / ATX converter to avoid ripple noise (10mV) or
2. Is it better to give the CPU as much power as possible, for example to improve support the computing-intensive EC modulators of the HQPlayer?

Regarding 1., Assuming power supply quality is better than what HDPlex DC/ATX converter can provide, yes, it would be more beneficial to go direct.  This is the direction I am heading with the power supply build project.

 

2.  I would use just one best quality power supply with enough headroom on EPS.  My average EPS consumption for 44.1 to DSD256/EC7 is around 50W with i9-9900KS, around 15W higher from hi-res PCM to DSD256/EC7, and will spike up close to a bit shy of 100W (using tools I have).  The EPS supply I am working on is capable up to 14A of current, but will be derated to a 12.5A of output fuse, so by calculation, headroom should be sufficient.  Using two supplies does have other benefits such as redundancy and extra headroom, but as long as the single supply has enough headroom, and no concern over power redundancy, it will be far simpler to go with single supply.

[Solstice380]

My HQPlayer Server Build

 

I had my fun this weekend!  So far it is stock (high end) standard, but I went with the Fractal Design Define 7XL case to allow future fun - room for power supplies and all kinds of stuff.

 

The parts, assembly and a "first-time" POST.   Lot's of updates and a few BIOS adjustments and the i9-9900KS sits at 5 GHz and 27 deg. C at idle.  😍

 

 

[Solstice380]

On 3/15/2020 at 9:41 AM, jabbr said:

That said if you are designing a server purely for HQP, and you have a 9900ks then by all means go for it — get really fast memory! It’s the current king for high clock rate.

 

I went with the HyperX Predator 2666 MHz for the CAS 13 performance.  The faster RAMs are all 16+ CAS latency.  I doubt I'll have to OC it! 

[lmitche]

17 minutes ago, Solstice380 said:

 

I went with the HyperX Predator 2666 MHz for the CAS 13 performance.  The faster RAMs are all 16+ CAS latency.  I doubt I'll have to OC it! 

According to your screen shot you are running your memory below 2666MHz. You should enable the DOCP choice to pull the memory timings from the SPD. In a modern Asus bios it is usually on the first pulldown on the "Tweaker" page.

[Solstice380]

@lmitche  That was a shot of the "first time" post before any setup.  The A9 indicator is the code for Start of Setup.  🙂  All good now!

[Miska]

38 minutes ago, Solstice380 said:

I went with the HyperX Predator 2666 MHz for the CAS 13 performance.  The faster RAMs are all 16+ CAS latency.  I doubt I'll have to OC it! 

 

For that RAM, IIRC, XMP Profile 1 gives the 2666 MHz CL13 spec performance. So you need to select this profile to get full speed out of it.

 

[jamesg11]

6 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

@lmitche  That was a shot of the "first time" post before any setup.  The A9 indicator is the code for Start of Setup.  🙂  All good now!

For dummies/newbies contemplating a nearish future server replacement, can you ‘list’ the parts in this build?

[Solstice380]

2 hours ago, jamesg11 said:

For dummies/newbies contemplating a nearish future server replacement, can you ‘list’ the parts in this build?

 

The picture has most of it, but sure:

 

I9-9900KS

Asus Maximus Hero Wi-Fi

Corsair 150i Pro AIO cooling (26 deg C idle temp... will be watching after running HQP for an hour or so tonight, but so far it is q-u-i-e-t!)

Noctua's new NT-H2 thermal paste

Samsung 970 Pro NVMe M.2 1TB

HyperX Predator 2666 MHz 32GB

Asus ROG RTX-2080 Advanced

Seasonic 1000-TR 

Fractal Design Define 7XL case (nice!)

 

I use HQPlayer with NAA.  It purrs doing 44K to DSD256 using ASDM7EC modulator - no GPU required.  I'll be checking some of the more system stressing filters over the next few days.  Eventually convolution.  Still waiting delivery on a Fractal PCIe riser/extension so I can mount the GPU vertically.  Never liked the GPU hanging off the mobo and with how heavy they are these days... hate to snap the slot on a US$250+ mobo!  The Fractal setup provides easy vert mounting with a header that screws right into prepared holes in the case.  And it moves the GPU away from the other heat sources and keeps everything cool as a bonus.  But they should include the dang thing not price gouge for it like they do!

 

There are a lot of ways to skin the cat, bu first you need to figure out which cat you want to skin.  Decide what you want to do and build to that level.  Some folks are having great sound with minimalist server builds and some are going super high horsepower and exotic power supplies, etc.  If you are new to computer building don't worry, tutorials and advice everywhere.  These days it is hard to mess it up.

[jabbr]

12 hours ago, Solstice380 said:

 

I went with the HyperX Predator 2666 MHz for the CAS 13 performance.  The faster RAMs are all 16+ CAS latency.  I doubt I'll have to OC it! 

Nice! Those 9900ks are gone I think. I’m still going back and forth on the i9-10x vs Xeon 2200 series, PCIe 16 for both my GPU and NIC

 

... I’m using Coronavirus quarantine time to totally upgrade my network from 10g to 100/10g ... so learning azure sonic (head spinning atm) 

 

... so this machine will now sit upstairs in my office and 100Gbe access to my NAS... which is crazy that my network is faster than my PCIe bus! 
 

So anyways, which CPU has better AVX512 clock rates? Or is that needed using the RTX 2080?