Design a PC/Server for ROON and HQ Player

[Quadman]

46 minutes ago, shadowlight said:

Has anyone explored using Xeon processors in place of i9?

Blindly answering here but Jussi has stated speed is key for EC modulators and should have at minimum 2 cores over 4 Ghz, so if Xenon can accomplish that then it may very well work.  Most success I have seen is with the 9700K and it self turboboost itself (not manually OC'd) up to 4.7 to handle EC at DSD256.

[rando]

6 hours ago, randytsuch said:

Rest of my choices were different, there are lots of options out there.

 

Very similar to audio in that beyond sheer number of options. There are a lot of solutions to old problems not always glaringly obvious as such before at least having them in hand.  On top of that quality can vary but a little and have a large effect in hard long term use.

 

5 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

although slightly different models to what he had, but same manufacturers.

 

Often combinations of cooler from one company and fan from another merit the expense.  Say one of the fans you feel suitable and cooler from a reinvigorated Scythe lineup.  Which is not so reinvigorated it contains a suitable fanless option, yet. 😢

 

Really I just wanted to hammer into mind the effects of thermal paste in this arrangement.  First point of heat transfer is a critical step.  Parts are not necessarily parts (to rehash an old saying).  The skill with which they are implemented opens an even bigger divide.

[asdf1000]

Made a last minute change - upgraded to the 750W Seasonic Focus Plus 80PLUS Gold PSU. Better margin, for adding RTX 2080 Ti in a few months.

 

Can never have too much powaahhh on tap 😁

Updated parts list:

 

[Jking]

I was thinking the new Ryzen 3700x (zen2) would do well for this application.  4.4 GHz, 8/16 and only 65w with 7nm die size. A good budget one would be the Ryzen 3600.

[asdf1000]

47 minutes ago, Jking said:

I was thinking the new Ryzen 3700x (zen2) would do well for this application.  4.4 GHz, 8/16 and only 65w with 7nm die size. A good budget one would be the Ryzen 3600.

 

Should be good except if you're planning to do ext2 + DSD256 + ASDM7EC.

 

The max boost speed of 4.4 GHz may be an issue.

 

Seems safer (from people's observations, not any expertise) to have a max boost speed of 5.0 GHz, like Intel 8086K and 9900K.

 

The 9700K is also fine with it's max boost of 4.9 GHz.

 

Hard to know until someone tries the new AMD's.

 

[juanitox]

a chance i still prefer my old settings with DSD512 to the new EC ones with DSD256.

for T+A owner  please try in blind test     DSD5v2x256   polysincExt2   xDSD512  vs Ec modulators x DSD256.

if it could help one of you not spending money on geek hardware  😊

[craighartley]

6 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

 

Should be good except if you're planning to do ext2 + DSD256 + ASDM7EC.

 

The max boost speed of 4.4 GHz may be an issue.

 

Seems safer (from people's observations, not any expertise) to have a max boost speed of 5.0 GHz, like Intel 8086K and 9900K.

 

The 9700K is also fine with it's max boost of 4.9 GHz.

 

 

Those higher rate processors may not be necessary with Miska’s latest optimisations. With the latest version of the HQPlayer OS Linux image, my 6700k  performs smoothly with ext2 + DSD256 + ASDM7EC. (It won’t do it with XTR or Closed-Form 16M filters). 

[asdf1000]

2 minutes ago, craighartley said:

Those higher rate processors may not be necessary with Miska’s latest optimisations. With the latest version of the HQPlayer OS Linux image, my 6700k  performs smoothly with ext2 + DSD256 + ASDM7EC. (It won’t do it with XTR or Closed-Form 16M filters). 

 

Good news. What speed are you cores running at?

 

 

[asdf1000]

And @craighartley can you try some DXD (PCM353kHz) files with ext2 to DSD256. Does it work? No stuttering?

 

Free DXD files here:

 

http://www.2l.no/hires/

[craighartley]

Just now, asdf1000 said:

 

Good news. What speed are you cores running at?

 

 

I don’t know, in that I’m running it remotely and have no immediate way of checking that. But they’re not overclocked in BIOS. When I say it’s performing smoothly, I mean it runs without stuttering or apparent throttling. 

[craighartley]

2 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

And @craighartley can you try some DXD (PCM353kHz) files with ext2 to DSD256. Does it work? No stuttering?

 

Free DXD files here:

 

http://www.2l.no/hires/

I’m listening to one of my DXD albums now with Ext2 and ASDM7EC to DSD256, and no stuttering so far. It’s certainly okay with polysinc filters. I’ll let you know if anything untoward occurs. 

[asdf1000]

Just now, craighartley said:

I’m listening to one of my DXD albums now with Ext2 and ASDM7EC to DSD256, and no stuttering so far. It’s certainly okay with polysinc filters. I’ll let you know if anything untoward occurs. 

 

Thanks!

 

I see your 6700K has a guaranteed speed of 4.0 GHz and max speed of 4.2 GHz.

 

So maybe the new Ryzen's can indeed do it, as they have max boost speeds over 4.0 GHz.

 

Won't know for certain until someone tries and shares.

 

For spending new money on a new build the AMDs might be risky compared to a 9700K or 9900K for example.

 

 

[mikicasellas]

Hey Guys,

 

Is anyone already using the AMD RYZEN 7 3700X ?

 

For the moment i have been following the NUC path and im using a Mac mini as the Roon server and the NUC as the endpoint which i switch it fro  time to time to try Euphony or AL

 

I have been playing around with the idea of building a one machine to use AL or Euphony (or for server only) with this processor and a Mini ITX to use in a fanless case like the HDPLEX and be able to use my HDPLEX 200w to power it, perhaps my PH SR4 19v Could be used with a PCIE card or such or just leave it with the NUC

 

The plan of using the mi ni ITX is in order to the HDPLEX 200W be able to power it, maybe i'm wrong but so far it is what i have understood

 

Any suggestions ?

 

Thank you all

[craighartley]

23 hours ago, asdf1000 said:

 

Thanks!

 

I see your 6700K has a guaranteed speed of 4.0 GHz and max speed of 4.2 GHz.

 

So maybe the new Ryzen's can indeed do it, as they have max boost speeds over 4.0 GHz.

 

Won't know for certain until someone tries and shares.

 

For spending new money on a new build the AMDs might be risky compared to a 9700K or 9900K for example.

 

 

Yes, on the other hand it’s great news for those of us with a 6700k previously considering a new build.

 

Actually I have a correction: I can run xtr; it seems to be only ClosedForm16 m that I can’t run without stuttering to DSD256 with the ADSM7EC modulator. 

[Miska]

If you have something like 6700K, one good option may be to add more filter processing speed with RTX GPU. You get to keep high clock speed cores for modulators and can offload filters to the GPU.

 

[lmitche]

5 hours ago, mikicasellas said:

Hey Guys,

 

Is anyone already using the AMD RYZEN 7 3700X ?

 

For the moment i have been following the NUC path and im using a Mac mini as the Roon server and the NUC as the endpoint which i switch it fro  time to time to try Euphony or AL

 

I have been playing around with the idea of building a one machine to use AL or Euphony (or for server only) with this processor and a Mini ITX to use in a fanless case like the HDPLEX and be able to use my HDPLEX 200w to power it, perhaps my PH SR4 19v Could be used with a PCIE card or such or just leave it with the NUC

 

The plan of using the mi ni ITX is in order to the HDPLEX 200W be able to power it, maybe i'm wrong but so far it is what i have understood

 

Any suggestions ?

 

Thank you all

Over here, I am running AL/Roonserver on a Ryzen 7 2700 with an Asus B450M-I ITX motherboard powered by an HDPLEX 200 watt headless with no gpu.

 

The sq jump from my intel 6700k system was as “massive” a jump as I have heard.

 

I havern’t tried hqplayer upsampling yet. Currently the machine is idle during playback 99.7 percent of the time and runs cool at 29 degrees C. IDK what will happen to power demand with a processor intensive load like hqplayer, and would caution everyone to be careful to avoid overloading the hdplex supply.

 

Nevertheless this combo should work as these Ryzen cpus are both 65 watt parts. Also the Ryzen 7 3700x specs are very similar to the Ryzen 7 2700 so your results should be close to the same.

[craighartley]

22 minutes ago, Miska said:

If you have something like 6700K, one good option may be to add more filter processing speed with RTX GPU. You get to keep high clock speed cores for modulators and can offload filters to the GPU.

 

Yes, that's what I was doing previously with HQDesktop (with a GTX1080), but my point is that with the new image of HQPembedded I don't need a GPU to run almost all of the same filters with ADSM7EC that previously needed overclocking of 6700k and the addition of a GPU.

 

Why add more processing speed with a GPU when you don't need it?

[craighartley]

And there is the added benefit that the responses from Roon control on another PC are much snappier using HQPembedded image than they were with HQPDesktop in Windows.

[asdf1000]

Update.

 

My i9-9900K system is now up and running. I was like a kid in a candy store, wanting to get my new fingerprint so I could get @Miska to transfer one of my licenses across to the new machine (I have two HQPe licenses).

 

The quickest way to get my new fingerprint was HQP OS bootable USB stick.

 

So I created the bootable stick and got lots of errors with HQP OS. Tried a few times in case the Etcher bootable wasn't being done properly.

 

Then I thought I'd skip HQP OS and go straight to Debian OS because that's what I want to use anyway.

 

But Debian wouldn't install properly.

 

So I thought hmmmm it's not unique to HQP OS.

 

Then I did the thing I should have done first ! But I'd skipped this step because I was too excited initially. I checked BIOS version and indeed it was an old BIOS version - there had been 3 BIOS updates since the one currently installed.

 

So I installed the latest BIOS update for ASRock Phantom Gaming 4. Then went to load HQP OS and now we're cookin with gas!

 

I'm limited to 30min trials at the moment but very impressed with how quiet the Fractal Design R6 and big Noctua fan is. I'm glad I followed Jussi's advice there.

 

Next I'll get Debian OS installed (with Roon Server alongside HQPe) and I can share usage and temperature figures, in case it helps anyone else.

 

The build:

[Miska]

1 hour ago, craighartley said:

Yes, that's what I was doing previously with HQDesktop (with a GTX1080), but my point is that with the new image of HQPembedded I don't need a GPU to run almost all of the same filters with ADSM7EC that previously needed overclocking of 6700k and the addition of a GPU.

 

Why add more processing speed with a GPU when you don't need it?

 

I just thought you wanted to run closed-form-16M which works very well on a GPU...

 

[craighartley]

14 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

I just thought you wanted to run closed-form-16M which works very well on a GPU...

 

Yes, if I decide I want to go back to trying Closed-Form-16M I'll install Ubuntu server for HQPe so I can do CUDA, but I'm finding minringFIR very effective instead for high-res files. Or I may go back to poly-sinc short for high-res files.

 

And the simple elegance of the HQPOS is more than enough to leave me happy without Closed-Form-16M.

[randytsuch]

52 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

Update.

 

My i9-9900K system is now up and running. I was like a kid in a candy store, wanting to get my new fingerprint so I could get @Miska to transfer one of my licenses across to the new machine (I have two HQPe licenses).

 

The quickest way to get my new fingerprint was HQP OS bootable USB stick.

 

So I created the bootable stick and got lots of errors with HQP OS. Tried a few times in case the Etcher bootable wasn't being done properly.

 

Then I thought I'd skip HQP OS and go straight to Debian OS because that's what I want to use anyway.

 

But Debian wouldn't install properly.

 

So I thought hmmmm it's not unique to HQP OS.

 

Then I did the thing I should have done first ! But I'd skipped this step because I was too excited initially. I checked BIOS version and indeed it was an old BIOS version - there had been 3 BIOS updates since the one currently installed.

 

So I installed the latest BIOS update for ASRock Phantom Gaming 4. Then went to load HQP OS and now we're cookin with gas!

 

I'm limited to 30min trials at the moment but very impressed with how quiet the Fractal Design R6 and big Noctua fan is. I'm glad I followed Jussi's advice there.

 

Next I'll get Debian OS installed (with Roon Server alongside HQPe) and I can share usage and temperature figures, in case it helps anyone else.

Wondering if you'll have better luck with debian than me?  Seems to depend on ethernet chip used.

 

I also had old bios in my Gigabit motherboard, and couldn't boot from windows or ethernet installation sticks.  Updated bios and then boots fine from these sticks.

[asdf1000]

4 minutes ago, randytsuch said:

Wondering if you'll have better luck with debian than me?  Seems to depend on ethernet chip used.

 

I suggested that you give HQP OS a try (USB bootable image), while waiting for your ethernet card to arrive. It might work for you. Let us know how it goes.

 

Will let you know how Debian goes for me but as you say, might be motherboard dependent.

 

I've been using Debian Stretch OS for a long while now, running HQPe and Roon Server, on a NUC i7. Without any issues. Apart from lack of CPU powah

[Miska]

10 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

I suggested that you give HQP OS a try (USB bootable image), while waiting for your ethernet card to arrive. It might work for you. 

 

At least it has very recent drivers for Intel 1 Gbps and 10 Gbps cards, so it should probably work with pretty much anything Intel sells at the moment...

 

[mikicasellas]

5 hours ago, lmitche said:

Over here, I am running AL/Roonserver on a Ryzen 7 2700 with an Asus B450M-I ITX motherboard powered by an HDPLEX 200 watt headless with no gpu.

 

The sq jump from my intel 6700k system was as “massive” a jump as I have heard.

 

I havern’t tried hqplayer upsampling yet. Currently the machine is idle during playback 99.7 percent of the time and runs cool at 29 degrees C. IDK what will happen to power demand with a processor intensive load like hqplayer, and would caution everyone to be careful to avoid overloading the hdplex supply.

 

Nevertheless this combo should work as these Ryzen cpus are both 65 watt parts. Also the Ryzen 7 3700x specs are very similar to the Ryzen 7 2700 so your results should be close to the same.

Thanks Larry,

 

Are you using a fanless case ?

 

Regards