Design a PC/Server for ROON and HQ Player

[rickca]

16 hours ago, Miska said:

The CPU shouldn't ever exceed the average TDP. Turbo is limited such way that you don't exceed the TDP. Idea is that if you don't load all cores and the GPU fully, some cores can run at higher clock because there's remaining TDP budget.

Well, I've read that.  But it's also been reported that the i9-9900K can do 4.7 GHz all-core boost without overclocking, which surely must take more than 95W.

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

Well, I've read that.  But it's also been reported that the i9-9900K can do 4.7 GHz all-core boost without overclocking, which surely must take more than 95W.

A little old, but a very clear set of answers to the TDP question is here:

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13400/intel-9th-gen-core-i9-9900k-i7-9700k-i5-9600k-review/21

[lmitche]

The 8 core i7-9700 at 65 watts looks to be the sweet spot. It's not shipping just yet.

[Dev]

13 minutes ago, lmitche said:

The 8 core i7-9700 at 65 watts looks to be the sweet spot. It's not shipping just yet.

 

And then there is also i9-9900 at 65 watts tdp. This is also not shipping yet as well.

 

Both are almost same (same base freq, almost same turbo speed, 8 cores) but i9 will be preferable due to large 16Mb cache vs 12Mb of i7.

[Miska]

2 hours ago, rickca said:

Well, I've read that.  But it's also been reported that the i9-9900K can do 4.7 GHz all-core boost without overclocking, which surely must take more than 95W.

 

Have you counted in contribution of the GPU?

 

[Miska]

33 minutes ago, lmitche said:

A little old, but a very clear set of answers to the TDP question is here:

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13400/intel-9th-gen-core-i9-9900k-i7-9700k-i5-9600k-review/21

 

Important thing to note there is that not all power draw is directly converted to heat. If you draw 200W peak power, it doesn't mean your average heat dissipation is 200W...

 

Best is to just keep eye on core temps under load and see how close to thermal throttling they get.

 

~95W TDP AMD (no GPU) seems to run hotter than ~95W TDP Intel (with GPU, but not loaded).

 

[rickca]

5 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

You can adjust the multipliers of the CPU arbitrarily (also downwards), so that you could basically set the cooling performance of the case and the performance of the power supply.

I know you need an unlocked CPU for overclocking, but can you not underclock a locked CPU?  Does someone understand this?  I've never tried it.

[4est]

17 hours ago, rickca said:

I know you need an unlocked CPU for overclocking, but can you not underclock a locked CPU?  Does someone understand this?  I've never tried it.

To my knowledge you need an unlocked chip to be able to adjust the clocking up OR down.

[4est]

21 hours ago, rickca said:

Well, I've read that.  But it's also been reported that the i9-9900K can do 4.7 GHz all-core boost without overclocking, which surely must take more than 95W.

I am not sure why you would assume that as the all core boost (sh/w)ould have been represented in the specs as I understand it. I do not know for sure, but that would seem to be the purpose of that spec.

[lmitche]

19 hours ago, rickca said:

I know you need an unlocked CPU for overclocking, but can you not underclock a locked CPU?  Does someone understand this?  I've never tried it.

While the details vary, generally you can underclock every Intel chip, how far depends on the chip generation.  For example the laptop processors in the NUCs will underclock to 400mhz or 800mhz depending on model. You don't need an unlocked chip. Energy saving mechanisms are ubitquitous. You can often disable these mechanisms in bios. 

[StreamFidelity]

On 5/25/2019 at 6:18 PM, StreamFidelity said:

After detailed research, I have the following new fanless audio PC under construction:

 

• Intel Core i9-9900K (95W TDP), 3.6GHz - 5.0GHz OctaCore - HD Graphics 630
• Streacom FC9 Alpha (Black) - Desktop - micro ATX
• ASUS ROG Maximus XI Gene
• Corsair Dominator Platinum - DDR4 - 16GB
• Samsung SSD 970 PRO 512GB, M.2
• JCAT USB Card FEMTO
• JCAT NET Card FEMTO
• HDPLEX 200W Linear Power Supply (LPS) Black
• HDPLEX 400W HiFi DC-ATX

GPU is out of the question for me because I want to have a completely fanless PC. Since I currently have no problems running DSD 512 (filter: poly-sinc-xtr-lp-2s, shaper: AMSDM7 512 + fs) with an Intel Core i5-8400T, I am not afraid without a GPU.

 

Some will wonder why I chose a gaming board. These are just very robust and equipped with good components. Pink Faun does the same. 😉I believe that good hardware is essential for a good sound.

 

Added to this are memory with very low latencies and superfast SSDs.

 

For extremely important I consider a trouble-free data transport and a clean power supply. The JCAT USB and NET cards are equipped with Femto clocks and are powered externally by the HDPLEX 200W LPS with 5V each. The same LPS in combination with the HDPLEX DC-ATX converter is designed to provide the new audio PC with clean power that is free from high-frequency noise.

 

The operating system comes Server 2019 on it, optimized with Audiophil Optimizer 3.0 (to come in late May) and Fidelizer.

 

I'm really looking forward to my new project. 😀

 

Since the weekend my new Audio PC is running. Above is the HDPLEX 200W Linear Power Supply. Below the fanless PC with Intel Core i9-9900K (95W TDP), 3.6GHz - 5.0GHz OctaCore.

 

 

I played with the CPU multipliers and slowly adjusted the clock rates upwards. The multiplier with 40x (3.9GHz) runs very stable with 26W - 34W. The temperature is below 80°C. The core CPU # 7 was isolated from Fidelizer for Non Audio and has nothing to do. 😉

 

I optimized Windows 10 Pro operating system with Audiophil Optimizer 3.00. In BIOS everything is switched off, which is not needed. I'm very satisfied.

 

 

My 2-PC solution:

 

[rickca]

11 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

I'm very satisfied.

Your CPU utilization is very low.  You got these results running DSD 512 (filter: poly-sinc-xtr-lp-2s, shaper: AMSDM7 512 + fs) ... while HQPlayer was upsampling?

 

Did you use the HDPLEX 200W LPS/400W DC-ATX while setting up the audio PC ... installing Windows 10 Pro/AO 3.00 and applying Windows Updates?  And you are powering both the 8-pin EPS12V and 24-pin connectors on your motherboard with this PS combination?  What about the 2nd 8-pin on your motherboard ... there's no way to power it with the HDPLEX combo, so are you just using one of the dual 8-pin connectors?

 

I tried the HDPLEX combo with an i7-6700K (4 GHz base frequency) and fried the rectifier on the 200W LPS.  HDPLEX has made some changes in the latest batch  of 200W LPS to prevent this from happening.  I was using a 200W LPS from the initial batch.  It happened while I was applying some Windows Updates.  So I'm wondering why I had problems and you didn't.

 

Your photo is very striking!  Note that 70 degrees C is the limit for your 970 Pro SSD.  I wouldn't want to subject it to that temperature on a regular basis.  

[sukyung]

I am trying to create an audio pc.
i9 9900k (tdp 95w) vs i9 9900 (tdp 65w)

What would be better?

 

 

[R1200CL]

deleted

 

 

[lmitche]

3 hours ago, sukyung said:

I am trying to create an audio pc.
i9 9900k (tdp 95w) vs i9 9900 (tdp 65w)

What would be better?

 

 

With the i9-9900 tdp savings is significant. That would be my choice, but I would run Audiolinux, do no upsampling and reduce the clock to 800mhz.

 

Others seem to like Euphony running at as high a clock rate as possible, so the i9-9900k may work better in that case. I don't have enough experience to know. In turbo mode this processor could run way above 95 degrees making a fanless case problematic. Hqplayer may run best here.

[Miska]

3 hours ago, sukyung said:

i9 9900k (tdp 95w) vs i9 9900 (tdp 65w)

What would be better?

 

9900K definitely, you can never have too much CPU power... Especially the new EC modulator variants are incredibly heavy and you'll need all the clock speed you can get.

 

21 minutes ago, lmitche said:

With the i9-9900 tdp savings is significant. That would be my choice, but I would run Audiolinux, do no upsampling and reduce the clock to 800mhz.

 

HQPlayer goes totally wasted if you don't use the upsampling algorithms. Have you measured how much quality loss you have on the DAC output by not doing upsampling?

 

And if you definitely want to run such case, you are much better off with one of the 5W TDP processors, or ARM64 platforms like the new nice i.MX8M (HummingBoard Pulse or CuBox Pulse).

 

Up to PCM and DSD128 upsampling, the most powerful UpSquared models work well.

 

[StreamFidelity]

11 hours ago, rickca said:

Your CPU utilization is very low.  You got these results running DSD 512 (filter: poly-sinc-xtr-lp-2s, shaper: AMSDM7 512 + fs) ... while HQPlayer was upsampling?

 

Did you use the HDPLEX 200W LPS/400W DC-ATX while setting up the audio PC ... installing Windows 10 Pro/AO 3.00 and applying Windows Updates?  And you are powering both the 8-pin EPS12V and 24-pin connectors on your motherboard with this PS combination?  What about the 2nd 8-pin on your motherboard ... there's no way to power it with the HDPLEX combo, so are you just using one of the dual 8-pin connectors?

 

I tried the HDPLEX combo with an i7-6700K (4 GHz base frequency) and fried the rectifier on the 200W LPS.  HDPLEX has made some changes in the latest batch  of 200W LPS to prevent this from happening.  I was using a 200W LPS from the initial batch.  It happened while I was applying some Windows Updates.  So I'm wondering why I had problems and you didn't.

 

Your photo is very striking!  Note that 70 degrees C is the limit for your 970 Pro SSD.  I wouldn't want to subject it to that temperature on a regular basis.  

 

Yes of course the HQPlayer upsampling was active.

 

Yes, I use HDPLEX 400W HiFi DC-ATX:

 

I read that the HDPLEX combo has been improved, but I have no comparison.

 

Thanks for pointing out the temperature limit of 970 PRO NVMe M.2 SSD. I will observe that and maybe change it.

[rickca]

@StreamFidelity nice neat job!  Thanks for the interior photo.  This confirms that the 2nd 8-pin connector on the motherboard is not used.

[Miska]

2 hours ago, rickca said:

@StreamFidelity nice neat job!  Thanks for the interior photo.  This confirms that the 2nd 8-pin connector on the motherboard is not used.

 

Sometimes they are just connected in parallel, with the idea of lowering source impedance for the high current low voltage rails. Because you get double wire area... This helps preventing voltage drops on sudden current peaks (which do happen a lot).

 

[rickca]

13 hours ago, Miska said:

Especially the new EC modulator variants are incredibly heavy and you'll need all the clock speed you can get.

Sorry I guess I missed this ... what is an EC modulator and what does EC stand for?

[Miska]

16 hours ago, rickca said:

Sorry I guess I missed this ... what is an EC modulator and what does EC stand for?

 

"Extended Compensation", but I'm really struggling to find sane names for modulator variants, so you can consider that pretty pointless. In any case the new modulator variants have significantly improved accuracy. The previous ones were very good, but I found a way to significantly improve those further. Cost is about 3x higher CPU load.

 

[tboooe]

5 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

"Extended Compensation", but I'm really struggling to find sane names for modulator variants, so you can consider that pretty pointless. In any case the new modulator variants have significantly improved accuracy. The previous ones were very good, but I found a way to significantly improve those further. Cost is about 3x higher CPU load.

 

So I assume EC modular is really only possible with Cuda offload when converting PCM to DSD512?  

[Miska]

2 minutes ago, tboooe said:

So I assume EC modular is really only possible with Cuda offload when converting PCM to DSD512?  

 

If you have enough fast enough CPU cores, probably works also without. I'm still evaluating what harware can run it. My 3.2 GHz Xeon E5 (a bit old now) can almost do DSD256 with it. Needs some 16+ billion calculations per second per output channel...

 

I also have high hopes for the new Ryzen 9's...

 

[redrockt990]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

If you have enough fast enough CPU cores, probably works also without. I'm still evaluating what harware can run it. My 3.2 GHz Xeon E5 (a bit old now) can almost do DSD256 with it. Needs some 16+ billion calculations per second per output channel...

 

I also have high hopes for the new Ryzen 9's...

 

 

A W-3175X works. 

[Miska]

I just finished upgrading one of my servers yesterday. This one can run upsampling to DSD256 using the new EC modulators. Sounds great with output to Holo Spring 2 (through DAC-UP ports and using standard USB3 cable)!

 

Here are the new components:

 

Motherboard is Gigabyte Z390 AORUS MASTER, CPU is i7-8086K and RAM is Kingston HyperX DDR4-2666 kit of 2 (CL12).

 

Here's the whole thing assembled, old parts are the case, Noctua NH-D9 CPU cooler (with Noctua PWM fans), Seasonic semi-passive cooled PSU, Intel SSD and RME HDSPe AIO. This machine runs Ubuntu Server 18.04 LTS and HQPlayer Embedded on it.

 

Here it is powered up and running with the case still open: