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Design a PC/Server for ROON and HQ Player


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1 hour ago, twluke said:

I think this good result is considerably owing to the excellent cooling power of the Noctua cooler. It is almost quiet or nearly silent with a poly-sinc filter. Even with the xtr filter, the fan is very quiet and you can focus on listening to music without being distracted.

This is good to hear about but, without actually hearing it, it is hard to appreciate.  For those of us who are wrestling with such constructions/configurations, it would be great to get noise level measurements.

Kal Rubinson

Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

 

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4 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

This is good to hear about but, without actually hearing it, it is hard to appreciate.  For those of us who are wrestling with such constructions/configurations, it would be great to get noise level measurements.

Okay. I'm not sure this can be of help but the pictures below (poly-sinc-muted, non-muted, xtr-muted) are quick noise measurements using an iPAD app. The speakers (Altec 604-8G and 802-8G/511B horn) are 4.5 m away from the microphone and the PC is 2 m away from it.

 

Regards,

 

ps-muted.PNG

non-muted.PNG

xtr-muted.PNG

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1 hour ago, twluke said:

Okay. I'm not sure this can be of help but the pictures below (poly-sinc-muted, non-muted, xtr-muted) are quick noise measurements using an iPAD app. The speakers (Altec 604-8G and 802-8G/511B horn) are 4.5 m away from the microphone and the PC is 2 m away from it.

So, what I see is that muting (of what?) makes a big difference which should be audible but it is hard for me to translate that into machine noise radiated into the room.  For example, my current system, in operation is inaudible at the listening on or off.  Measurements at the MLP at mid-day are in the low 30's and rise about 1-2 dB within 6 inches of the server.

 

Getting up to 60dB is an issue. 

Kal Rubinson

Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

 

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12 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Getting up to 60dB is an issue. 

You are misunderstanding. Muted means measuring no sound other than the room and PC by muting the speaker while the latter loaded with playing music. Non-muted means recording the ordinary loudness of speaker when playing music with possible noise from the room and PC, of course.

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1 hour ago, twluke said:

You are misunderstanding. Muted means measuring no sound other than the room and PC by muting the speaker while the latter loaded with playing music. Non-muted means recording the ordinary loudness of speaker when playing music with possible noise from the room and PC, of course.

Thanks, that certainly makes more sense.  It gives us a room SNR but not how much of the room noise is the PC.   

Kal Rubinson

Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

 

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1 hour ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Thanks, that certainly makes more sense.  It gives us a room SNR but not how much of the room noise is the PC.   

Well, it may be difficult how much the PC occupy the part of the entire room noise because I could not find obvious difference even after turning off all of the equipments related to this measurement. The picture below is the measurement of room noise without any PC and audio gears turned on.

 

room.PNG

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  • 3 weeks later...

Sorry, this is a side question.  I'm sure this has been covered many times, but searching would take a long time.

Using a server running Roon and HQP on Windows, how much more computer will I need vs. a lean Linux machine running just HQP or HQP embedded?  I need a good, simple interface like Roon, I had a very hard time running HQP by itself, as it didn't take any playback commands from JRiver.  I will mainly be rendering redbook to DSD 256 or DSD512.  I really prefer everything to be on a Windows machine with big fans, and I can go big: RTX2080 and an 8-core i9 or a Threadripper.  Of course nobody has a perfect number, I'm just looking for guesses.

 

I've used a next-room-located Mac mini streamer/renderer with HQP, JRiver, and an NAA before.  But that computer blew 2 years ago so I've gone without any computer audio since.  My DAC is currently a Oppo 205.  My old setup (with an Oppo105D DAC) sounded wonderful, so I plan to remake it with better components like maybe a fiber optic ethernet connection to the NAA, a MicroRendu, IsoRegen, LPS, etc.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

P.S. Will Roon ever rip CDs?  Seems so ridiculous to skip that feature...

Mac Mini 2012 with 2.3 GHz i5 CPU and 16GB RAM running newest OS10.9x and Signalyst HQ Player software (occasionally JRMC), ethernet to Cisco SG100-08 GigE switch, ethernet to SOtM SMS100 Miniserver in audio room, sending via short 1/2 meter AQ Cinnamon USB to Oppo 105D, feeding balanced outputs to 2x Bel Canto S300 amps which vertically biamp ATC SCM20SL speakers, 2x Velodyne DD12+ subs. Each side is mounted vertically on 3-tiered Sound Anchor ADJ2 stands: ATC (top), amp (middle), sub (bottom), Mogami, Koala, Nordost, Mosaic cables, split at the preamp outputs with splitters. All transducers are thoroughly and lovingly time aligned for the listening position.

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On 4/18/2019 at 5:45 PM, twluke said:

Well, it may be difficult how much the PC occupy the part of the entire room noise because I could not find obvious difference even after turning off all of the equipments related to this measurement. The picture below is the measurement of room noise without any PC and audio gears turned on.

I see  differences between the two traces in the low frequencies and in one noticeable hump but I doubt that they would be perceptible or, even, repeatable.  Thanks.

Kal Rubinson

Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile

 

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15 hours ago, Miska said:

 

On smaller low power light machines the OS makes more difference in terms of CPU load. On bigger machines relative contribution of the OS itself to the overall load is much smaller.

 

How big machine you need largely depends on what HQPlayer settings you want to be able to do. One advantage of for example RTX2080 is that it allows one to select higher clock speed lower core count CPU to enable something like DSD1024.

 

 

Jussi, thank you, that's extremely helpful.

Mac Mini 2012 with 2.3 GHz i5 CPU and 16GB RAM running newest OS10.9x and Signalyst HQ Player software (occasionally JRMC), ethernet to Cisco SG100-08 GigE switch, ethernet to SOtM SMS100 Miniserver in audio room, sending via short 1/2 meter AQ Cinnamon USB to Oppo 105D, feeding balanced outputs to 2x Bel Canto S300 amps which vertically biamp ATC SCM20SL speakers, 2x Velodyne DD12+ subs. Each side is mounted vertically on 3-tiered Sound Anchor ADJ2 stands: ATC (top), amp (middle), sub (bottom), Mogami, Koala, Nordost, Mosaic cables, split at the preamp outputs with splitters. All transducers are thoroughly and lovingly time aligned for the listening position.

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On 5/7/2019 at 8:20 AM, Miska said:

 

On smaller low power light machines the OS makes more difference in terms of CPU load. On bigger machines relative contribution of the OS itself to the overall load is much smaller.

 

How big machine you need largely depends on what HQPlayer settings you want to be able to do. One advantage of for example RTX2080 is that it allows one to select higher clock speed lower core count CPU to enable something like DSD1024.

 

I am just trying Hqplayer on a HP z6 with 10 core Xeon, 2.2 Ghz 4112 Intel CPU workstation with GTX1050. I can not do DSD1024 reliably from PCM 44,1k with any of the settings. The GTX1050 does not seem to help the conversion. 

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On 5/12/2019 at 5:11 PM, ferenc said:

I am just trying Hqplayer on a HP z6 with 10 core Xeon, 2.2 Ghz 4112 Intel CPU workstation with GTX1050. I can not do DSD1024 reliably from PCM 44,1k with any of the settings. The GTX1050 does not seem to help the conversion. 

 

For DSD1024 you need a CPU that can run at least 4.2 GHz and much bigger GPU. CPU selection is more tricky than GPU selection. RTX2080 and RTX2080Ti do just fine. I'm using i7-7700K with base clock of 4.2 GHz and max Turbo at 4.5 GHz, combined with RTX2080. I want to also try i9-9900K that can run 5 GHz Turbo, but need to see when I can buy such.

 

Point of using GPU offload in this case is to be able to select CPU that can run at high clock speed as possible.

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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On 3/29/2019 at 8:37 PM, improvedsound said:

I built a Music Server based on:

Intel Xeon processor (Coffee Lake) with TDP 45W, clock 2.9 GHz, 6 cores 

ECC DDR4-2666  

Intel Optane SSD 800P Series 58GB M.2 with only Windows 10 LTSB,

HQplayer resident on RAM (Primo ramdisk)

Separate linear power supply for motherboard, processor, 8TB HDD

 

44.1> DSD 256 poly-sinc-xtr the CPU works at 25/38%
44.1> DSD 256 poly-sinc-2s the CPU works at 15/18%

 

My DAC: Merging Hapi 

I'm interested to know more details about the "Separate linear power supply for motherboard, processor": which one? the specs ...

Thanks for sharing this information.

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@R1200CL      Thank you!

Mac Mini 2012 with 2.3 GHz i5 CPU and 16GB RAM running newest OS10.9x and Signalyst HQ Player software (occasionally JRMC), ethernet to Cisco SG100-08 GigE switch, ethernet to SOtM SMS100 Miniserver in audio room, sending via short 1/2 meter AQ Cinnamon USB to Oppo 105D, feeding balanced outputs to 2x Bel Canto S300 amps which vertically biamp ATC SCM20SL speakers, 2x Velodyne DD12+ subs. Each side is mounted vertically on 3-tiered Sound Anchor ADJ2 stands: ATC (top), amp (middle), sub (bottom), Mogami, Koala, Nordost, Mosaic cables, split at the preamp outputs with splitters. All transducers are thoroughly and lovingly time aligned for the listening position.

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On 5/14/2019 at 3:57 PM, Miska said:

I want to also try i9-9900K that can run 5 GHz Turbo, but need to see when I can buy such.

After detailed research, I have the following new fanless audio PC under construction:

 

  • Intel Core i9-9900K (95W TDP), 3.6GHz - 5.0GHz OctaCore - HD Graphics 630
  • Streacom FC9 Alpha (Black) - Desktop - micro ATX
  • ASUS ROG Maximus XI Gene
  • Corsair Dominator Platinum - DDR4 - 16GB
  • Samsung SSD 970 PRO 512GB, M.2
  • JCAT USB Card FEMTO
  • JCAT NET Card FEMTO
  • HDPLEX 200W Linear Power Supply (LPS) Black
  • HDPLEX 400W HiFi DC-ATX

GPU is out of the question for me because I want to have a completely fanless PC. Since I currently have no problems running DSD 512 (filter: poly-sinc-xtr-lp-2s, shaper: AMSDM7 512 + fs) with an Intel Core i5-8400T, I am not afraid without a GPU.

 

Some will wonder why I chose a gaming board. These are just very robust and equipped with good components. Pink Faun does the same. 😉I believe that good hardware is essential for a good sound.

 

Added to this are memory with very low latencies and superfast SSDs.

 

For extremely important I consider a trouble-free data transport and a clean power supply. The JCAT USB and NET cards are equipped with Femto clocks and are powered externally by the HDPLEX 200W LPS with 5V each. The same LPS in combination with the HDPLEX DC-ATX converter is designed to provide the new audio PC with clean power that is free from high-frequency noise.

 

The operating system comes Server 2019 on it, optimized with Audiophil Optimizer 3.0 (to come in late May) and Fidelizer.

 

I'm really looking forward to my new project. 😀

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39 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

ASUS ROG Maximus XI Gene

This motherboard has dual 8-pin connectors for the CPU.  How are you going to power it with an HDPLEX 400W DC-ATX?

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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6 minutes ago, rickca said:

This motherboard has dual 8-pin connectors for the CPU.  How are you going to power it with an HDPLEX 400W DC-ATX?

This motherboard has both: 24-pin EATXPOWER + two 8-pin EATX12V 😉

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1 hour ago, StreamFidelity said:

This motherboard has both: 24-pin EATXPOWER + two 8-pin EATX12V 😉

The 400W DC-ATX is powered by the 19V rail of the 200W LPS.  The 400W DC-ATX will be able to power the 24-pin and one 8-pin EPS12V , but that motherboard wants two 8-pins.  I'm not sure if the motherboard will be stable if you only power one of those 8-pin connectors, you will need to do some research.

 

You may be asking too much from a 200W LPS to power this configuration.  I tried the 200W LPS/400W DC-ATX combination with a 91W i7-6700K and a Gigabyte Z370X Ultra Gaming and I ended up frying the rectifier.  However, that was with a 200W LPS from the first batch ... HDPLEX has made some modifications to the most recent batch which started shipping in April so that this won't happen.

 

The 95W TDP of the i9-9900K applies to running the CPU at the base frequency of 3.6 GHz.  At the max turbo frequency of 5 GHz it is going to want considerably more than 95W.  Also, the 200W LPS is only about 65-70% efficient.

Pareto Audio AMD 7700 Server --> Berkeley Alpha USB --> Jeff Rowland Aeris --> Jeff Rowland 625 S2 --> Focal Utopia 3 Diablos with 2 x Focal Electra SW 1000 BE subs

 

i7-6700K/Windows 10  --> EVGA Nu Audio Card --> Focal CMS50's 

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3 hours ago, rickca said:

The 95W TDP of the i9-9900K applies to running the CPU at the base frequency of 3.6 GHz.  At the max turbo frequency of 5 GHz it is going to want considerably more than 95W.  Also, the 200W LPS is only about 65-70% efficient.

 

The CPU shouldn't ever exceed the average TDP. Turbo is limited such way that you don't exceed the TDP. Idea is that if you don't load all cores and the GPU fully, some cores can run at higher clock because there's remaining TDP budget...

 

For example if you have 8 core CPU, and you put full load only on one CPU core and no load at all on GPU, you can boost that one CPU core much higher without having excessive heat problems...

 

Signalyst - Developer of HQPlayer

Pulse & Fidelity - Software Defined Amplifiers

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I stopped using linear power supplies (LPS) on my first pc-streamer (AS rock J1900-itx with daphile). I tried A/B with a switching supply and I could not hear any difference in SQ using the RME Adi-2 dac. Next, I built a second more powerful streamer (with HQP) with the Seasonic prime titanium fanless 600W. That is enough power for a big CPU and a graphics card.    

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/25149-design-a-pcserver-for-roon-and-hq-player/?do=findComment&comment=919942

 

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19 hours ago, rickca said:

You may be asking too much from a 200W LPS to power this configuration.  I tried the 200W LPS/400W DC-ATX combination with a 91W i7-6700K and a Gigabyte Z370X Ultra Gaming and I ended up frying the rectifier.  However, that was with a 200W LPS from the first batch ... HDPLEX has made some modifications to the most recent batch which started shipping in April so that this won't happen.

 

The 95W TDP of the i9-9900K applies to running the CPU at the base frequency of 3.6 GHz.  At the max turbo frequency of 5 GHz it is going to want considerably more than 95W.  Also, the 200W LPS is only about 65-70% efficient.

 

Thank you for your review. Originally I had Intel Core i9-9900 (TDP 65W) in the range.

 

Right! In extreme situations, the i9-9900K can pull more than 200W. However, this CPU has several advantages over the i9-9900:

 

a) The heatspreader is soldered. That Heat transfer is better than i9-9900.

 

b) You can adjust the multipliers of the CPU arbitrarily (also downwards), so that you could basically set the cooling performance of the case and the performance of the power supply. This makes cirrus7 for me, which also assemble the PC.

 

Also, I think it's always better to use the CPU under your performance specifications than the other way round. 😉

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