Design a PC/Server for ROON and HQ Player

[Montanari]

On 12/8/2017 at 1:37 PM, sbenyo said:

Does anyone know if CPUs like i7-7700T or i7-7500U without Cuda can run HQP with DSD512 properly (all modes?).

I am looking for a fanless mini PC to run HQPlayer directly without NAA.

 

If this may work, will it be a problem streaming audio from USB network disks?

 

 

HI there

did you find any solution ?

i m in the same route +dsd convolution with drc filter

thank you 

[tboooe]

5 hours ago, Montanari said:

HI there

did you find any solution ?

i m in the same route +dsd convolution with drc filter

thank you 

I have an i7-7700 in a fanless case.  I can run DSD512 with convolution.  The only issue I have is with the non -2s xtr settings.  All others work.

[Johnseye]

3 minutes ago, tboooe said:

I have an i7-7700 in a fanless case.  I can run DSD512 with convolution.  The only issue I have is with the non -2s xtr settings.  All others work.

 

Is that the K or T version? Wondering the wattage. 

[tboooe]

10 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Is that the K or T version? Wondering the wattage. 

Neither...just plain 7700 version, 65w TDP

[Montanari]

Thank you

[flkin]

On 13/03/2018 at 8:00 PM, ddetaey said:

 

Here some pictures of my Pink Faun Streamer running Roon and HQPlayer embedded :

 

 

I see in your picture you got 4 OCXO clock upgrades. What are those for? Are they the Connor Windfield OH100 clocks?

 

Did you get the upgrade PCX-1 cables or are those PF standard cables?

 

Lastly how does the server sound? Eager to know as I’m considering one also. 

 

Thanks, Kin

[gdpr]

1 clock is used for the Motherboard, the 3 other ones are for the different interfaces : usb, bnc & I2S

 

Exact type of clock I don't know, better to ask Pink Faun

 

Cabling is the upgraded PCX-1.

 

I ordered the streamer after serious listening tests, and I am extremely happy with it in my home system.

It is installed next to my dac in my listening room, and provides very  high quamity without the need for upgrading ethernet switched, cabling, etc..

I can really recommend it

One important remark, although it is based on Linux, it is a closed 'software' system as Pink Faun does not want you to start playing with software updates yourself

 

Dirk

 

[flkin]

Hi Dirk

Ah so yours is the 2.16x version. Nice! 

 

What streamers or front end was replaced by this 2.16x? I have no way to listen to the unit from my part of the world (Thailand) so if I go this route, it's a leap in the dark. Cant seem to locate any other people using the Pink Faun 2.16 series too.

 

Do you use HQPlayer with it or Roon? I understand they worked with the SGM server and did work for them in the power and clock section and that unit uses upscaling to DSD512 so I'm keen to try HQPlayer again. Been using it on and off for years with getting the sound I want. But then again I wasn't using a SOTA streamer.

 

Did you ever consider the solution with two 2.16 units rather than the single 2.16x? The price is similar. If so what was your rational for choosing a single box version?

 

Thanks for sharing, Kin

[gdpr]

Hi Kin

 

I am a little bit confused with your remark on the pricing for one or two 2 2.16 units - 2 units will cost you exactly twice the price of 1 unit (maybe  you can get an extra discount on the 2nd one, but you get my grip).

 

I really don't see any need to go with 2 units.  I really believe this is overkill, as the streamer is already topnotch.

 

I am playing Roon with HQPlayer, resampling all music to DSD.  I am stuck at DSD128 as my T+A 8 DSD only supports upto DSD128 when the streamer is working on Linux ! (With Windows, the T+A 8 DSD supports up to DSD512 ).

Still I am very happy with the sound quality.  I hope that one day , Amanero will deliver a certified firmware upgrade for its USB-card (used in the T+A 8 DSD) , supporting DSD512 both on Windows and Linux.  Until then, I do not expect T+A to make any changes.

I am following some topics here on the CA-forum for other DAC's supporting DSD512 with Linux.  

 

The platform I was using before was a regular windows PC, with Jriver., and the Berckeley Alpha 2 DAC + Audiophilleo 1 USB convertor.

Dirk

 

 

[flkin]

Hi Dirk

 

Ah, I think I see the confusion. 

 

I was told by Jord from Pink Faun that the top end 2.16 server doesn’t come with clocks nor the PCX-1 cabling as standard, while in the 2.16x extreme version of the server, it is standard and comes with other nice bits like the 3 rhodium fuses and rhodium FI-09 NFC Furutech AC socket. Apparently the optional clocks can be fitted into the 2.16, while the PCX-1 cabling has to be ordered in the beginning and cannot be fitted later.

 

The prices I was quoted for the extreme 2.16x was nearly double that of the top 2.16 model. Looks like you have the extreme version from your description of your unit.

 

Jord said his own setup was a dual 2.16 system whereby he used Roon in the first unit and the HQPlayer in the second. I think it’s to do with Roon being a very active system and that isolating the digital audio signal side has benefits. Sounds like an overkill to me too but others are following down the double box route like Antipodes’ CX and EX solution. 

 

Anyway, thanks for that titbit of information about Linux not being to upscale higher than DSD128 for some DACs. Sorry to hear that affects you. If you are able find a way around the lock PF put on the Linux, perhaps switch to Windows and use AO or Fidelizer Pro instead? Khun Keetakawee the developer of Fidelizer told me he thinks he can simply switch the OS SSD and make it work. In fact he said a 2.16 owner was recently in touch with him about this. 

 

I should check if my Vinnie Rossi DAC2 is able to do DSD512 on Arch Linux. This will have a bearing on my final decision. 

 

Regards, Kin

[rickca]

6 hours ago, flkin said:

The prices I was quoted for the extreme 2.16x was nearly double that of the top 2.16 model.

I'm curious what is the price for the extreme 2.16x?  

[Solstice380]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

I'm curious what is the price for the extreme 2.16x?  

 

IIRC it’s north of US$15K. 

[flkin]

 The quoted price from their list is includes a Roon lifetime license and 21% VAT. So for outside Europe and if you already have a lifetime license for Roon, you can get that off the price.

[PieterP]

Hi Guys, I am trying to make an ‘as silent as possible’ PC Music streamer for HQ-player (under linux) (with fans After my current audio) in a DIY chassis (Modushop slimline 4U). Can I ask for your feedback? Starting point is my chassis (see pics) and my questions for now concern an ‘as silent as possible’ power supply and a as-silent-as-possible air/water cooling system. That is because I need to decide on the PSU and CPU cooler first as I will have Front Panel Express Berlin do most of my metal works (caveties, drilling, engravings) that I need to accommodate/mount the main components. My chassis has enough space to accommodate an ATX mobo, most ATX PSU’s and liquid cooling radiators up to 3 fans (max 315mm radiator lenght). Only the available height above the processor (for an air cooler) is 140mm which limits me to the use of top flow coolers or the smaller upright coolers. My Slimline chassis has top and bottom plates with full ventilation holes.

 

PSU: From specs/reviews on internet I found that the Be Quiet Dark pro 11 650W could be a good candidate with very low noise levels (lowest noise PSU with fan?) and good voltage stability and ripple specs and we have the Corsair RM650x which is also said to be very quiet and other good specs. The advantage of the Be Quiet (BQ) compared to the semi-passive Corsair RM650x is that the quiet fan is always on (at very low rpm) which gives a better cooling during low power demand. The Corsair RM switches off the fan at low power demand (semi-passive), but then there will be heatspots and those will add some heat into the chassis which is undesirable. The ‘only’ disadvantage of the BQ is its price.

-          What do you think about this PSU and about alternatives to consider?

-          Is it right that 650 W gives me enough headroom for most current and future processors (65-95W TDP), OC possibility and a videocard (if really needed)?

-          I am thinking of mounting the PSU on its side (with its width of 86mm it will fit next to an ATX mobo of 305mm) with the fan on the inside of my chassis. I can also make the fan inlet on the left outside of the chassis. Any feed back on that?  

 

Cooling: I have been looking at quiet air coolers and quiet liquid cooling (AIO). From specs/reviews on the internet (hardware.info) I found that the Be Quiet Dark Rock TF (top flow) can keep a 125W processor at about 45 degrees Celcius within 30dB. I couldn’t find a better quieter TF air cooler. The Noctua NHL12 can keep 130W at 61 degrees celcius within 30DB. It is 14 euro’s cheaper.

 

About (AIO) liquid cooling, I saw the Fractal Design Celcius S24 with good reviews about its low noise and good cooling performance ( https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fractal-design-celsius-s24-cooler,5058-2.html). 

I wonder whether this AIO liquid cooler (pump + radiator fans) will be less noisy than the BQ Dark rock TF? Any thought /experiences on that?

 

How would you guys value the advantage of an AIO liquid cooler that pushes the heat directly out of the chassis compared to an TF air cooler that injects the heat inside the chassis and you probably need additional chassis fans?

 

When I use a TF air cooler, I probably need chassis fans to get the heat out of my chassis? Anyone has experience with fan speed controllers likes this one: https://www.quietpc.com/gelid-speedtouch6

 

Ps 1. I got the ATX I/O panel with laserhive in the UK. PS 2. The reason why I choose this Modushop chassis is because I really like my PC streamer to match with my DIY AMB Beta24 power amplifier which I recently completed (I add 2 photo's of my B24 here). Ps3: I already have a PC audio streamer / server which is described here: 

[Keith_W]

Interesting project you have there, Pieter. If you want ultimate silence, the best way is not to have any fans at all. My PC is built from a Streacom FC10 case which has an integrated heatpipe solution. Powering it is an Uptone Audio JS-2 LPSU. The downside of going this route is limited cooling (max of 95W TDP for the Streacom), inability to cool a video card passively, and limited power from the LPSU. 

 

In the past I did consider building myself a custom water cooled monster PC with lots of radiators and slow turning fans, but I was put off by the sheer complexity of this project and I did not want to touch water cooling again. I have played with water cooling in the past and it was a nightmare when it came to PC maintenance, so never again. 

 

As for those AIO solutions, I have been running a Corsair AIO water cooler in my main workstation for years. I assure you that you can't hear the pump. What you WILL hear are the fans. My advice would be to find the biggest radiator you can get your hands on and install slow turning fans. 

[PieterP]

Thanks for your valuable response! I have also been looking into fanless. But I found that Streacom and HDPLEX seem to be somewhat less flexible. You have a power limit of less than 95w TDP (because of the relatively small heatsink and limited number of heatpipes compared to SGM/Pink faun), little room for additional cards and you are more or less tied to their heatpipe system.

 

I have also examined the SGM and Pink Faun (2.16) fanless streamers for they use a chassis with heatsinks that look quite similar to the Modushop dissipante chassis which was another option for me. The drawbacks are that the heatpipe system and especially the adapter/socket (with room for six to eight heatpipes) that fits on the processor isn't easy to find/buy on internet, and if you find and buy one for AM4 now, and you want to change into e.g. intel 1151, you'll need a different adapter/socket and maybe change the heatpipes as well. This does not make this type of cooling system very flexible in contrast to the much higher flexilbility given by TF coolers and AIO. In addition,  I noticed that Pink Faun (with a special alu subchassis, 40cm deep heatsink) and SGM (special copper heatsink only on the processor side) had to modify their chassis heavily to provide for enough fanless cooling capacity for their max 95W TDP processors running roon/HQP. My guess now is that it is cheaper, and also gives me more flexilibity in future CPU/Mobo/PCIE card choices, to invest in a most quiet PSU and CPU cooler instead of going fully fanless.   

[lmitche]

Look at the new Seasonic fanless atx power supply. Also a noctua fan cooler with LNA installed and an Efidelity fan filter on the DC side is noiseless here.

[PieterP]

17 hours ago, lmitche said:

Look at the new Seasonic fanless atx power supply. Also a noctua fan cooler with LNA installed and an Efidelity fan filter on the DC side is noiseless here.

Thanks! The 600W prime titanium fanless is a good candidate. 

 

Can I ask, which Noctua cooler do you have and what processor does it cool?     

[lmitche]

3 hours ago, PieterP said:

Thanks! The 600W prime titanium fanless is a good candidate. 

 

Can I ask, which Noctua cooler do you have and what processor does it cool?     

NH-C14S on a i7-6700k makes zero noise with Hqplayer upsampling running all day long.

[Miska]

I have Noctua NH-D15 with fan speeds adjusted by motherboard, BIOS set to silent fan mode.

 

[PieterP]

Thanks for your feed back! the NHC14S fits my chassis. Good to know you can set it up to run noiseless.

 

Do you use case fans? If so, which ones? Controlled by bios?

 

Do you know fan speed controllers such as https://www.quietpc.com/gelid-speedtouch6  and are they usefull with case fans?  

 

   

[Miska]

I have all 3 case fans controlled by BIOS, also set to silent mode...

 

[lmitche]

5 hours ago, PieterP said:

Thanks for your feed back! the NHC14S fits my chassis. Good to know you can set it up to run noiseless.

 

Do you use case fans? If so, which ones? Controlled by bios?

 

Do you know fan speed controllers such as https://www.quietpc.com/gelid-speedtouch6  and are they usefull with case fans?  

 

   

I use no case fans in my Silverstone Grandia matx case here. In fact I removed them to improve passive airflow. There is only the motherboard, cpu, a USB card and Optane drive inside. Heat is not an issue.

[Johnseye]

No case fan.  Streacom case with heat pipes to the heat sinked chassis.

[Whitigir]

Running this with HQPlayer and fanless.  It sounds great ! Using DSD512 from 44.1

 

i need to figure out how to push it further, filter without 2S is stuttering 

 

I7-8700

Corshair 16gb 

970Pro 

hdplex400W

z370

streacom alpha8

pcie I2S Pinkfaun with OCXO