Design a PC/Server for ROON and HQ Player

[Quadman]

As an FYI, I just built for a friend a dedicated music server for DSD512 up sampling.   In the build I used the i7-7700K CPU, 16 GB, 3200MHz DDR4 ram, Z270X gigabyte MB, NO GPU (I think they add to much electrical noise, yet I use one in mine it sounds excellent)  This machine with HQP could do all the filters except the 2 closed form filters (this surprised me) and the 2 XTR (non-2s filters) every other filter worked, although it could take 30 seconds or so for some of the non-2s filters to build.  

 

Heck with my i7-6700K machine and 1060 GPU I cannot get the XTR (non 2s to work) at all but the closed forms do work.  In a brief listening compare between my machine and his I gave a slight edge to his machine and the main difference was I had a GPU and he didn't.  My MB was also a gigabyte but the Z170x.

 

My next personal PC build will be next year after Intel and AMD release their next up CPU's.  Maybe one of them will do the XTR's.  Those are very computational intensive filters.

[lmitche]

11 minutes ago, Quadman said:

As an FYI, I just built for a friend a dedicated music server for DSD512 up sampling.   In the build I used the i7-7700K CPU, 16 GB, 3200MHz DDR4 ram, Z270X gigabyte MB, NO GPU (I think they add to much electrical noise, yet I use one in mine it sounds excellent)  This machine with HQP could do all the filters except the 2 closed form filters (this surprised me) and the 2 XTR (non-2s filters) every other filter worked, although it could take 30 seconds or so for some of the non-2s filters to build.  

 

Heck with my i7-6700K machine and 1060 GPU I cannot get the XTR (non 2s to work) at all but the closed forms do work.  In a brief listening compare between my machine and his I gave a slight edge to his machine and the main difference was I had a GPU and he didn't.  My MB was also a gigabyte but the Z170x.

 

My next personal PC build will be next year after Intel and AMD release their next up CPU's.  Maybe one of them will do the XTR's.  Those are very computational intensive filters.

Quadman, I have a 6700k and dsd512 using polysinc xtr 2s works great even with 44.1 khz tracks..  Can you confirm it's not working for you? It should be.

 

Also, can you confirm that the 7700k machine was able to upsample 44.1khz to dsd512 using full polysinc xtr without a gpu?

 

Thanks,

 

Larry

[OlivierFH]

On 11/08/2017 at 3:01 AM, ponger said:

Hello Miska,

 

A while back you mentioned the possibility of using the new AMD Ryzen 7 processors to run HQ Player.  Have you had any further feedback on any of them?  Do you think I would be able to run DSD512 without a video card using any of the more demanding HQ Player filters?

 

Thank you,

Mas

It runs dsd512 with a ryzen 1700 and just a little video card (without cuda) to do the set up.

It's the best way to run hqplayer.

[sbenyo]

Does anyone know if CPUs like i7-7700T or i7-7500U without Cuda can run HQP with DSD512 properly (all modes?).

I am looking for a fanless mini PC to run HQPlayer directly without NAA.

 

If this may work, will it be a problem streaming audio from USB network disks?

 

 

[Quadman]

@lmitche My 6700K can do every HQP filter except the (non 2s) XTR's , My preferred filter is the mp-XTR-2s which I can use just fine either at 44.1x512 or 48x512.  The 7700K had the same experience it could not do the non-2s XTR filters at any rate (normally I check autorate family) nor could it do either of the closed form filters at either 44x512 or 48x512.  To be honest since I normally check autorate family I did not try 48x512 with the 7700K on the other non-2s filters.

 

I also just tried, at the urging or another CA member, to play a 48*512 with a 44.1 source on the poly-sinc filter and the filter built fine then I got lots of stuttering during playback, looking at MSI afterburner my GPU was running in the upper 80% range, Wow.  I then checked autorate family in HQP and GPU usage went back down to about 20% and music played just fine.  That other CA member had the exact same experience with his machine and 1060 GPU.

[lmitche]

Thanks Quadman, your dsd512 results are the same as mine on the 6700k. I appreciate the confirmation that there is no additional capability to be gained with a 7700k.

 

I don't have a gpu so can't speak to the strange behavior with autorate family set. You may want to discuss this with Miska in the Hqplayer thread.

[Quadman]

Larry, It has to be the extra computation needed to up sample by an non-integer amount.  With autorate unchecked and settings set at 48x512 the GPU ends up doing massive work (with 44.1 source) and MSI reports 88-90% gpu usage while the CPU is cruising along at 24% range.  This while doing non 2s filters (poly sinc, poly since mp).  Music just stutters as expected when any CPU/GPU goes over 70% utilization.  Checking autorate so now 44.1 upsample to 44x512 the the GPU  drops back down to around 20% as does the CPU and music plays fine.  The only mystery to me is why does the GPU peg so high and the CPU only works at 24% range when trying 44 source to playback at 48x512, If the CPU upped it load the cpu would lower its load and all would be fine.

 

The other CA member had the exact same results with his 6700K and 1060GPU, as long as we run with autorate checked all is good.

[Kal Rubinson]

3 hours ago, lmitche said:

Thanks Quadman, your dsd512 results are the same as mine on the 6700k. I appreciate the confirmation that there is no additional capability to be gained with a 7700k.

...............if you stick with two channels.

[christoph]

How do you guys monitor the GPU usage in %?

[lmitche]

4 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said:

...............if you stick with two channels.

Does the 7700k enable something in multichannel missing from the 6700k?

[Kal Rubinson]

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Does the 7700k enable something in multichannel missing from the 6700k?

I do not know but one would have to test.  My point is that success with stereo does not assure success when there are 3x channels.

[rickca]

1 hour ago, christoph said:

How do you guys monitor the GPU usage in %?

You can use MSI Afterburner.  Microsoft plans to add GPU utilization to their resource monitor in the fall Creators Update.

[christoph]

On 13.8.2017 at 2:11 AM, rickca said:

You can use MSI Afterburner.  Microsoft plans to add GPU utilization to their resource monitor in the fall Creators Update.

Thank you, Rick

[Kritpoon]

Hi All,

 

I just tried HQ Player and I am hooked! So I am planning to build RoonServer+HQPlayer in the same machine and my requirements are as followed :

 

1. CPU i7-7700 (low TDP since I am going to use fanless machine Streacom FC8 which recommend TDP 65W)

2. Motherboard -  I am still researching I need the board that can accept 12vDC with Dual LAN input (very difficult to find) the reason for 12vDC input is I am planing to use LPS, probably Uptone JS-2.

3. SDD - Sumsung 960 PRO M.2 512GB

4. PS - Uptone JS-2 LPS @ 12vDC

5. Case Streacom FC8

6. Ram 8Gbx2

 

I plan to only upsample to DSD128 and/or 256. The music file will be on separate NAS. Lan#1 will be connected to the network and LAN#2 will be directly connected to ultraRendu. Operating system will either be Server 2010 R2 or Win 10 with AO. My questions are:

 

1. I ran into a brickwall for Mother board option (especially with 12vDC input). Any suggestions?

2. Will this work with the upsample of DSD256?

 

Thank you for your input, I am very much appreciated.

 

Krit.

 

[tboooe]

33 minutes ago, Kritpoon said:

I just tried HQ Player and I am hooked! So I am planning to build RoonServer+HQPlayer in the same machine and my requirements are as followed :

 

1. CPU i7-7700 (low TDP since I am going to use fanless machine Streacom FC8 which recommend TDP 65W)

2. Motherboard -  I am still researching I need the board that can accept 12vDC with Dual LAN input (very difficult to find) the reason for 12vDC input is I am planing to use LPS, probably Uptone JS-2.

3. SDD - Sumsung 960 PRO M.2 512GB

4. PS - Uptone JS-2 LPS @ 12vDC

5. Case Streacom FC8

6. Ram 8Gbx2

I am also beginning to collect parts for my new build.  I am currently using an old i7-3770s and it does 44.1 to DSD512 fine but the cpu load is around 85%.  I just bought an i7-6770 which can easily do DSD512.  As for the mobo limitations, why not use something like the following from HDPLEX?  That will allow you to a broader range of choice:

 

https://www.hdplex.com/hdplex-400w-hi-fi-dc-atx-power-supply-16v-24v-wide-range-voltage-input.html

 

Also curious why M.2 drive?  I hear it has higher power consumption and the added performance is not required for music.  Dont get me wrong, I love nerding out and getting techy stuff just for the sake of getting the latest and greatest.  I am just trying to understand why you chose the M.2 as it relates to the application as a music server.

[Kritpoon]

1 minute ago, tboooe said:

I am also beginning to collect parts for my new build.  I am currently using an old i7-3770s and it does 44.1 to DSD512 fine but the cpu load is around 85%.  I just bought an i7-6770 which can easily do DSD512.  As for the mobo limitations, why not use something like the following from HDPLEX?  That will allow you to a broader range of choice:

 

https://www.hdplex.com/hdplex-400w-hi-fi-dc-atx-power-supply-16v-24v-wide-range-voltage-input.html

 

tbooe, thank you. Very interesting, so this hifi DC-atx-PS takes the input of LPS and convert it to ATX form for the Mother board?

[tboooe]

41 minutes ago, Kritpoon said:

 

tbooe, thank you. Very interesting, so this hifi DC-atx-PS takes the input of LPS and convert it to ATX form for the Mother board?

Yes it would.  I actually have an older version of this product and I used it to input 19V to it and then provide ATX power to my mobo.

[ismewor]

Does anyone try any of the new 12 cores and 16 cores Rzyen on AMD? Pink Fran highly recommended with Linux with HQP.

[volpone]

47 minutes ago, ismewor said:

Does anyone try any of the new 12 cores and 16 cores Rzyen on AMD? Pink Fran highly recommended with Linux with HQP.

I've not tried new big Ryzen's, but small R1700 is good too for HQP: 8 cores, cheap, TDP 65W !

 

[ismewor]

On 9/7/2017 at 4:34 PM, volpone said:

I've not tried new big Ryzen's, but small R1700 is good too for HQP: 8 cores, cheap, TDP 65W !

 

Thx, @volpone as for which filer can 1700 handle for DSD512

[Miska]

Lowest TDP CPU's that can handle DSD512 on my testing have been quad-core i5 T-series. I have two machines, i5-6600T and i5-7600T. Both have been able to do DSD512 with -2s filters. TDP is 35W. 7600T is completely fanless in a Streacom FC-10 case and 6600T is in adaptive fan (quiet) PSU + case and also has the RME HDSPe AIO card for inputs. Tested with HQPlayer Embedded...

[Kritpoon]

On 8/29/2017 at 11:49 PM, tboooe said:

I am also beginning to collect parts for my new build.  I am currently using an old i7-3770s and it does 44.1 to DSD512 fine but the cpu load is around 85%.  I just bought an i7-6770 which can easily do DSD512.  As for the mobo limitations, why not use something like the following from HDPLEX?  That will allow you to a broader range of choice:

 

https://www.hdplex.com/hdplex-400w-hi-fi-dc-atx-power-supply-16v-24v-wide-range-voltage-input.html

 

Also curious why M.2 drive?  I hear it has higher power consumption and the added performance is not required for music.  Dont get me wrong, I love nerding out and getting techy stuff just for the sake of getting the latest and greatest.  I am just trying to understand why you chose the M.2 as it relates to the application as a music server.

 I choose the M.2 for no other reason than I believe it would be suprior to SATA connected SSD (in term of SQ). I just wanted to try it out. Other than that, I dont know wheather or not it will be suprior over SSD. Since you mentioned that its added performance is not related to the music, I might just save some $$$ snd get os on SSD then.

[eternaloptimist]

On 12/08/2017 at 9:37 PM, sbenyo said:

Does anyone know if CPUs like i7-7700T or i7-7500U without Cuda can run HQP with DSD512 properly (all modes?).

I am looking for a fanless mini PC to run HQPlayer directly without NAA.

 

If this may work, will it be a problem streaming audio from USB network disks?

 

 

I am very interested in this answer as I am looking at the same setup - with a Streacom FC5 Alpha Case etc.

Looks like the i7-7700T could be a great option - CPU passmark of 9392 but TDP of only 25 - 35W!

I am sick of running Roon and HQPlayer on a separate powerful i7-6700K system with NAA... lots of reasons....

 

[LewinskiH01]

45 minutes ago, eternaloptimist said:

 

I am sick of running Roon and HQPlayer on a separate powerful i7-6700K system with NAA... lots of reasons....

 

 

Would you mind ellaborating on the reasons for being sick of this? I run Roon on one PC and HQP on another that is directly connected thru USB to the DAC. Both are powerful enough to run Roon+HQP and every now and then I toy with the idea of running both in machine #1 and turn #2 to a NAA with hopes of improving sound. I don't do DSD conversion so my computing power requirements are a lot smaller.

[eternaloptimist]

14 minutes ago, LewinskiH01 said:

 

Would you mind ellaborating on the reasons for being sick of this? I run Roon on one PC and HQP on another that is directly connected thru USB to the DAC. Both are powerful enough to run Roon+HQP and every now and then I toy with the idea of running both in machine #1 and turn #2 to a NAA with hopes of improving sound. I don't do DSD conversion so my computing power requirements are a lot smaller.

One practical issue is that the PC the Core and HQPlayer is running on, is also used by my wife.... which can result in Roon +/- HQPlayer being accidentally closed....

Also, I tend to switch between Roon +/- HQPlayer and Spotify and have so many connection issues switching between the 2. I just want it to work!