ECdesigns

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Just now, Varinder said:

Hi Stephaine.. in the power DAC some adjustments have been made .. fractal logic has been combined with R2R for lower bits .. Gordon informed me that it R2R for lower bits save power otherwise we need big power supply… would you enlighten me a bit more on that as I don’t understand what he meant 

Sorry, I cannot - this goes way over my head as well. Perhaps someone else can answer?

[Huubster]

18 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

I don't know about this MQA setting. Maybe that is something to ask to the Node tech support? I'd be curious to know as well. ECD has a bit perfect tester which I bought, but it is probably not worth getting for a one time use. 

I did some reading on this topic and it has to do with unfolding shizzl for MQA I'm not interested in. What it does is outputting 24b/96khz (by up- or downsampling) with the first unfolding or something like that..

 

I did some further trials with different songs and it has indeed impact, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. So I switched it off, because I want the music as is. 

[mevdinc]

6 hours ago, Huubster said:

I did some reading on this topic and it has to do with unfolding shizzl for MQA I'm not interested in. What it does is outputting 24b/96khz (by up- or downsampling) with the first unfolding or something like that..

 

I did some further trials with different songs and it has indeed impact, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. So I switched it off, because I want the music as is. 

I always found the MQA version to be 3db louder than the non-mqa version. The extra loudness and whatever else is going on with the decoding seem to make the mqa version sound impressive initially, but after awhile it becomes fatiguing. So, I gave up on mqa a long time ago.

[tapatrick]

On 6/26/2021 at 10:10 PM, hopkins said:

Gordon Brown told me he got great results with his iPhone using the apple camera kit to have USB audio, and streaming from Apple Music (new lossless plan) which he confirmed to be bit perfect. 

 

Maybe my findings are specific to my system! 

 

Not the Power Dac but revealing non the less in terms of source immunity (or not).

 

I compared the iphone streaming Tidal via the apple camera kit with usb out to the U192>Fractal Dac (the 5V comes from PH SR4) against my Laufer Teknik Memory player mini also streaming Tidal. There was no doubt about the difference - the Memory Player is is vastly superior with a holographic, sweet and detailed sound. The iphone as a source is a convenient choice and sounds pleasant enough but puts to bed the source immunity question for me.

 

I understand the PD is another beast all together so I will look forward to testing sometime soon if the S version materialises.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

12 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

I understand the PD is another beast all together so I will look forward to testing sometime soon if the S version materialises.

 

I heard back à couple days ago from ECD concerning the S model. The initial design was underwhelming when compared to tube amps of John's own design. John figured out what the problem was with the S model and is now testing some changes to the curcuits. These changes are specific to the S model and not relevant to the R model. 

[tapatrick]

1 minute ago, hopkins said:

 

I heard back à couple days ago from ECD concerning the S model. The initial design was underwhelming when compared to tube amps of John's own design. John figured out what the problem was with the S model and is now testing some changes to the curcuits. These changes are specific to the S model and not relevant to the R model. 

Great thanks for the update @hopkins

[Huubster]

When I personally picked up my PowerDAC,  I had a first listen to the PowerDAC S. When I arrived my very own PowerDAC R was playing. For the next hour or so it was playing while I, besides listening to the PowerDAC R, I was also listening to John's audio endavours.. :)

 

When I wanted to go, John suggested I'd take a listen to the PowerDAC S as well.

 

Long story short, if you want your money on the bank, don't have a listen..

[Varinder]

2 minutes ago, Huubster said:

When I personally picked up my PowerDAC,  I had a first listen to the PowerDAC S. When I arrived my very own PowerDAC R was playing. For the next hour or so it was playing while I, besides listening to the PowerDAC R, I was also listening to John's audio endavours.. :)

 

When I wanted to go, John suggested I'd take a listen to the PowerDAC S as well.

 

Long story short, if you want your money on the bank, don't have a listen..

What were the differences you found between R and S version ..

[tapatrick]

22 minutes ago, Huubster said:

Long story short, if you want your money on the bank, don't have a listen..

:) As far as I'm concerned the funds are already spent (in the future)

[Huubster]

23 minutes ago, Varinder said:

What were the differences you found between R and S version ..

Always hard to describe based on a set you don't know.

 

But the main difference I heard was power. It was unmistakenly the Fractal sound again, but it was much more powerfull and dynamic. The R was used as pre-amp, connected to John's tube amps, driving the open baffle speakers.

 

The open baffle speakers were, as to be expected maybe, lacking in the bass region with the R. But when the S was connected, wow, suddenly there was bass, with an enormeous drive. But not at the cost of other things, just more music :)

 

I myself have no issues with bass at all with my R version, so it might be the tube amps of John not capable of properly driving his open baffles, but the 6w PowerDAC S surely can!  

[tapatrick]

34 minutes ago, Huubster said:

Always hard to describe based on a set you don't know.

 

But the main difference I heard was power. It was unmistakenly the Fractal sound again, but it was much more powerfull and dynamic. The R was used as pre-amp, connected to John's tube amps, driving the open baffle speakers.

 

The open baffle speakers were, as to be expected maybe, lacking in the bass region with the R. But when the S was connected, wow, suddenly there was bass, with an enormeous drive. But not at the cost of other things, just more music :)

 

I myself have no issues with bass at all with my R version, so it might be the tube amps of John not capable of properly driving his open baffles, but the 6w PowerDAC S surely can!  

Interesting feedback, thanks. I sometimes run my fractal Dac straight into my Decware tube power amps for the purest sound but generally use a Croft preamp - as this adds a muscular power to the  sound which I really like... The 6W PD S gets more attractive :)

[bodiebill]

Today I received a 7.5 m optical cable that enabled me to do a version of the experiment that @hopkins suggested, namely removing the source from the audio gear.

 

Good news is that this (deleyCON) TosLink cable -- other than the one I used before -- has no problems with PCM 192/24!

 

The setup:

Windows PC/Audirvana Studio => Phasure Lush^2 USB cable => Mutec reclocker => long TosLink => Power DAC

 

More good news is that the SQ is gorgeous. I compared this with:

 

SDTrans384 => BNC => Mutec => long TosLink => Power DAC

 

and they are very close. The SD transport still sounds better: more open, less stridency/fatigue, but the difference is quite subtle. This could of course be attributed to the cleaner power of the SDTrans. After all, @hopkins recommended a battery powered notebook, but I only have a powered PC available for player software.

 

Also, Audirvana Studio still sounds better (and that without a doubt) than JRiver.

 

Conclusion: great progress made, thanks to ECD and Stephane, and this is likely to be my go-to setup for 'streaming' without network pollution.

 

But source immunity?

No, not yet... be it ever possible...

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

47 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

After all, @hopkins recommended a battery powered notebook, but I only have a powered PC available for player software.

 

Hi, the battery power could be useful if you don't want to plug in something in the same outlet as your equipment, but it's entirely possible that a regular laptop PS will do no harm either. 

 

It's fun to experiment without spending too much money either! 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Perhaps a good way of putting all this is asking yourself: if you find a sound you enjoy with a very simple setup, and had you started out with this without owning all the "audiophile" source equipment you have now, do you think you would be satisfied or have the urge to upgrade the source? 

 

My personal point of view, now, is that money is probably better spend on the analog components: speakers, amplification... I can only make this evaluation based on the sources I have actually listened to with the PowerDAC. I don't feel like I am missing out on anything significant with a basic source (but I'll test others if the opportunity comes along!). 

[bodiebill]

10 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Perhaps a good way of putting all this is asking yourself: if you find a sound you enjoy with a very simple setup, and had you started out with this without owning all the "audiophile" source equipment you have now, do you think you would be satisfied or have the urge to upgrade the source? 

 

Yes, I think I would be satisfied -- as I was satisfied 20 years ago. But you now how it goes. Once we behold the improvement, the damage is done. To quote my girlfriend, who says, ironically, everytime I buy something new: "Oh, so now finally you will have good sound quality?"

 

10 minutes ago, hopkins said:

My personal point of view, now, is that money is probably better spend on speakers or amplification. I can only make this evaluation based on the sources I have actually listened to with the PowerDAC. I don't feel like I am missing out on anything with a basic source. 

 

Indeed I am now -- after many years of quiet satisfaction -- looking at speakers. The Spendor-Buchardt comparison may have opened a can of worms.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

33 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

Yes, I think I would be satisfied -- as I was satisfied 20 years ago

 

I was satisfied when I got my first records at 15 and played them on a basic turntable. Since I started getting interested in Hi-fi 20 years ago (at 35) I cannot say I have ever been satisfied, and am ashamed when I think of the list of equipment bought and sold since - with digital  taking a big portion of that list. I honestly think the PD is really letting me turn the page on that side of the equation. I'm not trying to convince anyone, just simply expressing how I feel about this. The main thing I want to do now is turn the volume up 😁

We'll see if in a few months I change my mind. It's already been a while, however, since I've had the PD... 

[mevdinc]

2 hours ago, bodiebill said:

 

Yes, I think I would be satisfied -- as I was satisfied 20 years ago. But you now how it goes. Once we behold the improvement, the damage is done. To quote my girlfriend, who says, ironically, everytime I buy something new: "Oh, so now finally you will have good sound quality?"

 

 

Indeed I am now -- after many years of quiet satisfaction -- looking at speakers. The Spendor-Buchardt comparison may have opened a can of worms.

Try a pair of active ATCs. :)

[Huubster]

12 hours ago, hopkins said:

I honestly think the PD is really letting me turn the page on that side of the equation.

I can relate to that Stephane.

 

I actually already had that feeling when the Fractal DAC arrived. It was the itch, and the knowledge John bringing his 'better' PowerDAC to the market, that I couldn't resist.

It is the better DAC, sure. But I would have been very happy still with the Fractal Dac as well, that was for me a real game changer in digital reproduction.

[bodiebill]

On 6/30/2021 at 12:41 AM, mevdinc said:

Try a pair of active ATCs. :)

 

Interesting indeed.

Looking forward to a listening session with ATC SCM19(A) en SCM40(A) passive en active versions coming Monday.

Thanks!

[mevdinc]

56 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

Interesting indeed.

Looking forward to a listening session with ATC SCM19(A) en SCM40(A) passive en active versions coming Monday.

Thanks!

That sounds great! :)
If you can, please also listen to a pair of SCM 50As or above. 50s and above speakers use the higher spec drivers.
Please share your listening impressions.
Enjoy.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Has anyone spend time listening to the powerDAC with headphones? My comments in my "preview" concerning the use of the powerDAC with headphones were a little hasty, and I am now getting a better sence of the quality you get by connecting headphones directly. 

 

I prefer listening with my speakers, but I've found that what ECD explains is correct: it's a good way of evaluating the "distortion" you may get with your amps & speakers. So it's interesting to try... 

 

As a result, I'm getting a better sense of the appeal of an S model. I see in my future an R model in my "office" and an S model in my living room. I'm a good customer  😁 Anyway, at least I would want to hear it to decide. 

 

Once you start believing in the ECD "logic" you can no longer escape it. 😅

[hykbooks]

30 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Has anyone spend time listening to the powerDAC with headphones? My comments in my "preview" concerning the use of the powerDAC with headphones were a little hasty, and I am now getting a better sence of the quality you get by connecting headphones directly. 

 

I prefer listening with my speakers, but I've found that what ECD explains is correct: it's a good way of evaluating the "distortion" you may get with your amps & speakers. So it's interesting to try... 

 

As a result, I'm getting a better sense of the appeal of an S model. I see in my future an R model in my "office" and an S model in my living room. I'm a good customer  😁 Anyway, at least I would want to hear it to decide. 

 

Once you start believing in the ECD "logic" you can no longer escape it. 😅

I tried it with some headphones and it was lacking juice to drive hifiman he1000v1 and my denon 9200, not a great experience to be honest. With my audeze lcd4 that was an awful experience. Even good portable amps such as Alo MK RX3 were giving better results than using the powerdac as an amp for headphones. I liked it as a dac only

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

4 minutes ago, hykbooks said:

i tried it with some headphones and it was lacking juice to drive hifiman he1000v1 and my denon 9200, not a great experience to be honest. I liked it as a dac only

 

Thanks.

Lacking juice with your denon as well ?

What headphone amp do you use ?

[guls]

Is it possible for any of you to post an audio or video clip of music playing through the Power DAC. It may not be the best way to evaluate, but still will give a sense of how it sounds.

[hykbooks]

2 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Thanks.

Lacking juice with your denon as well ?

What headphone amp do you use ?

I have the ifi dsd pro which has even better dynamics when used as dac amp, do not even think that the powerdac can give a great experience with headphones like my violectric 590 or Phonitor X.