ECdesigns

[Vincent des Champs]

37 minutes ago, Varinder said:

What are the other dacs you have tried which you think beats PD

One-to-one comparisons with Linn Klimax Katalyst, internal Hegel H590 DAC and Chord Qutest - and the PD did beat them imho. Further experience with the Mola Mola Tambaqui but not having compared with the PD (and I honestly think it will be very tough competition for the PD).

 

I certainly don’t say that the PD is the best of all DACs, but I do believe it is hard to beat its price/quality ratio..

[Henley]

I for one indicated that the EC Design products lacked a bit of drive and slam in the low end compared to other dacs. This was in comparison with the Schiit Gungnir MB and Audio Note Dac 5. However I still preferred the Mosaic T dac over the other 2 due to its more open, fluid and natural sound. 

 

I currently still own the original Mosaic T 16bit dac and have compared it to the MOS + UPL but preferred the Mosaic T dac in direct comparison at home over a week. I still feel that the Mosaic T line was the only product line from EC Designs not built to budget. I’m still curious to see how it compares to the new PD. 
 

As I live in the Netherlands as well maybe we can setup a meeting to compare the Mosaic T 16bit dac / Mosaic T volume control / XTOS with the new PD. I can bring the Schiit Gungnir MB as well. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

These past few days, as a result of discussions with some of you, I've been playing with various configurations, and trying to "fine tune" my setup.

 

I've spend time listening to Qobuz from my tablet (Android, USB Player Pro) connected to the U192, as explained previously, and have to say that the sound with Qobuz is really good. Differences with local files are IMO due to different releases of the same album, but when you know that the album release is identical, streaming cannot be distinguished from local files (to my ears).

 

With respect to the amplification, and whether to use a preamp or not (if you are using power amplifiers), I'm still undecided. I like the direct connection of the PowerDAC to my amps, but there's a small psychological element in thinking that it is better to have the powerDAC volume set towards its upper range (7-9) than its lower range (1-3, for ex). For late night listening sessions, on some tracks volume 1 is still too loud... I'm eager to experiment with lower power tube amps, ultimately. For the time being, I use it both direct to my power amps and also with my "The Truth" preamp when I want to use my turntable. Will continue to experiment on those aspects.

 

With respect to the source, since in my case SQ using the UPL is no different than SQ using a tablet connected to the U192, I am trying to decide whether playing from my NUC changes things, as that involves, for the time being, using its "crappy" SMPS to power it, and having also a small network switch plugged in to the wall outlet with a cheap SMPS. When I don't use my NUC, the tablet is battery powered, and the rest of the equipment (PowerDAC + amps) have no ground connection (they both use two-prong plugs). 

 

I use a small portable AM radio to assess the level of RF. Sweeping the antenna over various equipment is an eye-opener, and I would encourage everyone to experiment with this.  The NUC has a high level of RF. The NUC's SMPS makes all sorts of weird high-pitched noises when you place the antenna next to it, so that can't be good. 

 

Fortunately, RF decreases quickly over short distances ( a meter), but it can also interfere with other cables (like my speaker cables?).

 

The PowerDAC and the U192 seem to generate very little RF. Interestingly, I can hear the music on the radio when placing the antenna not far from my speaker cables, and it seems that the Toslink cable I am currently using between my NUC and the PowerDAC also picks up some noise if I have it running next to the wall where all the cables are. It may have some shielding. If I place the NUC away from the wall and run the Toslink away from the rest I don't pick up anything. Will experiment with other Toslink cables. I don't believe the optical conductor has any incidence (especially given the reclocking of the PowerDAC), but other aspects could be at play. To make a long story short, there are probably many sources of pollution which have strictly nothing to do with the source immunity of the powerDAC and that could explain why results may slightly differ depending on the configuration.

 

[uber2]

On 6/23/2021 at 9:46 AM, Henley said:

I for one indicated that the EC Design products lacked a bit of drive and slam in the low end compared to other dacs. 

I got interested in the powerdac after hearing the Mosaic UV. Sold my Qutest for the PD. 

 

Both UV and PD feels a bit lean/low slam in the lower registers. Its an initial observation.

 

So I tend to agree with this statement.

I have the PD connected via toslink from the Aries femto for the moment.

 

With that said I prefer my PD!

[Varinder]

22 minutes ago, uber2 said:

I got interested in the powerdac after hearing the Mosaic UV. Sold my Qutest for the PD. 

 

Both UV and PD feels a bit lean/low slam in the lower registers. Its an initial observation.

 

So I tend to agree with this statement.

I have the PD connected via toslink from the Aries femto for the moment.

 

With that said I prefer my PD!

I had also found it bit low when I compared DAC 96 with Metrum Adagio but in terms of musicality it was miles ahead of Adagio … Can’t say PD as I have yet to get / listen one 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I'd be curious to know if some of you have tested, or plan to test, the use of a simple laptop computer, used from your listening position (so at a distance from all the audio equipment)? It seems to me this would be an ideal setup with the PowerDAC: all computer hardware (server, player, switch, and associated power supplies) placed at proximity of your equipment or speakers can simply be turned off (or permanently removed), reducing the influence of EMI/RF "contamination". 

 

Laptop can be connected with a long USB cable to either ECD's UT96 or U192, to convert to Toslink. Both of these are powered by the laptop.  Alternatively you can use a short USB cable and a long optical cable (toslink works up to 5 meters). 

 

If there is source immunity with the PowerDAC then this type of setup would seem to make sense to reap maximum benefits... 

 

Maybe I am overthinking all this, and am too nervous about all this RF/EMI, but it's worth a try. Using my tablet in this way and turning everything else off seems noticeably better... Battery life on my tablet is not sufficient for day long listening, hence a laptop, with also larger storage capacity. 

[tims]

10 hours ago, hopkins said:

I'd be curious to know if some of you have tested, or plan to test, the use of a simple laptop computer, used from your listening position (so at a distance from all the audio equipment)? It seems to me this would be an ideal setup with the PowerDAC: all computer hardware (server, player, switch, and associated power supplies) placed at proximity of your equipment or speakers can simply be turned off (or permanently removed), reducing the influence of EMI/RF "contamination". 

 

Laptop can be connected with a long USB cable to either ECD's UT96 or U192, to convert to Toslink. Both of these are powered by the laptop.  Alternatively you can use a short USB cable and a long optical cable (toslink works up to 5 meters). 

 

If there is source immunity with the PowerDAC then this type of setup would seem to make sense to reap maximum benefits... 

 

Maybe I am overthinking all this, and am too nervous about all this RF/EMI, but it's worth a try. Using my tablet in this way and turning everything else off seems noticeably better... Battery life on my tablet is not sufficient for day long listening, hence a laptop, with also larger storage capacity. 

Hi @hopkins,

Prior to owning the PowerDAC, do you try distancing your UPL/DA96 equipment from potential sources of EMI/RF contamination to see if this made a difference in SQ?

Thanks

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

38 minutes ago, tims said:

Hi @hopkins,

Prior to owning the PowerDAC, do you try distancing your UPL/DA96 equipment from potential sources of EMI/RF contamination to see if this made a difference in SQ?

Thanks

 

Good question. I tried lots of combinations before, including using a tablet with the U192 and a laptop to power the UPL. Was all the rest of the equipment turned off? Can't be sure of it.  I've made changes in my system since, as well, like using flat copper foil speaker cables, that I like a lot, but that may be more sensitive to surrounding "noise"? Hard to say, and hard to compare all this retrospectively. Anyway, it's worth a try now with the PowerDAC, and easy to test... In my living room I have limited options. My equipment rack is to the left of both speakers, and the electric outlet is between the speakers. I cannot leave speaker cables running through my living room. However well I try to organize things, I'm always going to have a bunch of equipment within short distances of each other. The best seems to simply remove the (probable) source of the problem. Alternative is to get a linear power supply for my NUC and network switch and hope that it will fix issues? Then perhaps decide that a NUC is not optimal and go back to audiophile PC that have better shielding and are less noisy? Etc... Success is not guaranteed. 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

 

 

[Huubster]

Hereby a personal report on yesterday evening. Three audiogeeks together, @bodiebill, @Vincent des Champs, and me, with the PowerDAC as the centerpiece , proudly standing still  the middle of the other continuously changing equipment.

 

I really tried to keep it short, but it's just too much to say to keep it short. Although not everything we experienced is part of my report, the most important things are, I hope :)  And otherwise Bodiebill and Vincent will certainly pitch in.

 

Before I go on, thanks Bodiebill, for your hospitallity, your exquisite thea choice, and off course the snacks and beers! 

 

Vincent and I brought our own stuff with us, bags full of equipment came through the door, including some very recently bought items for testing purposes. So we had a serious amount of audio sources at our disposal to use on the PowerDAC. It felt like 3 little kids in the candy store! A short overview of all the equipment, in random order:

 

1. SOTM SMS 200 Ultra Neo
2. Lindemann Limetree Bridge II
3. RPi with HifiBerry digital HAT
4. Innuos Zen Mini mkIII
5. Bluesound Node 2i
6. SDTrans384

 

I bought the Bluesound Node 2i a few days ago for it's great UI experience. I love my Innuos for sound, but I hate it for the user interface, it's crap. I would love to be able to use the Node 2i instead. I came across a nice 2nd hand deal: The Node 2i including an external LPS, the Allo Shanti 5v, which can be used after replacing the standard SMPS board inside the case with a custom powerboard (also included). 

 

We used multiple LPS's for our comparisons, but not did any comparisons between lps's, we just used the best we had available for the source:

 

1. Paul Hynes 5v
2. Paul Hynes 15v
3. Allo Shanti 5v

 

We included a reclocker in the test as well:

 

1. The Mutec MC3+ USB

 

We mainly listened to local stored .wav files and Qobuz, and tried to compare as much as possible WAV vs WAV and Qobuz vs Qobuz.

 

All the critical listening was done on the newly acquired speakers from Bodiebill, the active Buchardt A500's.

 

I did not make any notes during listening, I'm not able to describe the sound per source in detail neither. It's more difficult to describe differences in a set you are less familiar with. But one thing is sure, spoiler alert, and this I can state in the name of all the 3 of us, sources do matter, without a doubt.

 

After listening to a few songs on the Bodiebill's setup to get acquainted with it, we started with the Lindemann Limetree Bridge II. I was pleasantly suprised by the Limetree Bridge II, which actually looks like a RPi, very small, no internal LPS, as 'simple' as it can get. Fed by the Paul Hynes 5v. This is good contender for my Innuos Zen. Pretty much the same goes for the SOTM SMS 200 by the way, all slightly different in tone and presentation, but all very good. It will be a matter of preference and system synergy I think. The cleanest of the bunch was definitely the SDTrans384. 

 

What was suprising to me, is the sound of the Node 2i (using the Allo Shanti 5v LPS) in Bodiebill's system. It sounded pretty good, not as good as the other sources, but still very good. In my own system I experienced a major drop in sound quality compared to the Innuos, all the PRAT, dynamics I normally have were gone. The special thing about the PowerDac is though, that it still sounds very good, with the 'analogue' sound I like so much, a very cohesive soundstage, no harshness and all the details are also still present. But it's just losing much of the dynamic energy of better sources. This made me conclude that that systems can react quite differently on certain changes.

 

What I was positively suprised about is the Mutec reclocker. The Mutec, independent of the source, always improved the percieved sound quality. I would describe it as again a next level in lowering 'stress' in especcially mid's and high's, resulting in a very pleasing, friendlier sound without losing the dynamic 'pop'. It also resulted in even better placement. 

 

Another experiment we did was comparing my Innuos' Toslink output (which we used for all above comparisons) with the USB output of the same Innuos. This was very easy using the Mutec reclocker. Outcome was that the USB output sounds better to my ears, not a major difference, but still more pleasing. 

 

All in all I really enjoyed the evening, a gathering with like-minded 'forumfriends'. How often do you have the opportunity to compare so much interesting audio equipment?! I really hoped that the PowerDAC was really source independent. It would definitely mean I would have sold my Innnuos Zen and all expensive LPS's right away, and start enjoying all the goodness of the Node 2i. But it's just not the case for me. 

 

We all had our preferences, but one thing remains true to all of us (please correct me if I'm wrong here Vincent, Bodiebill), what a spectacular sound the PowerDAC has. Although we still found that source does matter, the PowerDAC is just an awesome piece of equipment, giving (at least for me) unparalled musical enjoyment.

 

And to finalize my report, due to yesterday's listening impressions I just ordered a 2nd hand Mutec reclocker on Ebay myself (thanks Vincent, for the tip :D). Really curious what it do bring in my setup. I once experienced that a reclocker is not per definition bringing improvements only. But if the Mutec improves things in my setup, I have the additional bonus of being able to use my preferred USB output of the Innuos and also connect multiple devices to my PowerDAC, which is a real nice to have too.

[Varinder]

17 minutes ago, Huubster said:

Hereby a personal report on yesterday evening. Three audiogeeks together, @bodiebill, @Vincent des Champs, and me, with the PowerDAC as the centerpiece , proudly standing still  the middle of the other continuously changing equipment.

 

I really tried to keep it short, but it's just too much to say to keep it short. Although not everything we experienced is part of my report, the most important things are, I hope :)  And otherwise Bodiebill and Vincent will certainly pitch in.

 

Before I go on, thanks Bodiebill, for your hospitallity, your exquisite thea choice, and off course the snacks and beers! 

 

Vincent and I brought our own stuff with us, bags full of equipment came through the door, including some very recently bought items for testing purposes. So we had a serious amount of audio sources at our disposal to use on the PowerDAC. It felt like 3 little kids in the candy store! A short overview of all the equipment, in random order:

 

1. SOTM SMS 200 Ultra Neo
2. Lindemann Limetree Bridge II
3. RPi with HifiBerry digital HAT
4. Innuos Zen Mini mkIII
5. Bluesound Node 2i
6. SDTrans384

 

I bought the Bluesound Node 2i a few days ago for it's great UI experience. I love my Innuos for sound, but I hate it for the user interface, it's crap. I would love to be able to use the Node 2i instead. I came across a nice 2nd hand deal: The Node 2i including an external LPS, the Allo Shanti 5v, which can be used after replacing the standard SMPS board inside the case with a custom powerboard (also included). 

 

We used multiple LPS's for our comparisons, but not did any comparisons between lps's, we just used the best we had available for the source:

 

1. Paul Hynes 5v
2. Paul Hynes 15v
3. Allo Shanti 5v

 

We included a reclocker in the test as well:

 

1. The Mutec MC3+ USB

 

We mainly listened to local stored .wav files and Qobuz, and tried to compare as much as possible WAV vs WAV and Qobuz vs Qobuz.

 

All the critical listening was done on the newly acquired speakers from Bodiebill, the active Buchardt A500's.

 

I did not make any notes during listening, I'm not able to describe the sound per source in detail neither. It's more difficult to describe differences in a set you are less familiar with. But one thing is sure, spoiler alert, and this I can state in the name of all the 3 of us, sources do matter, without a doubt.

 

After listening to a few songs on the Bodiebill's setup to get acquainted with it, we started with the Lindemann Limetree Bridge II. I was pleasantly suprised by the Limetree Bridge II, which actually looks like a RPi, very small, no internal LPS, as 'simple' as it can get. Fed by the Paul Hynes 5v. This is good contender for my Innuos Zen. Pretty much the same goes for the SOTM SMS 200 by the way, all slightly different in tone and presentation, but all very good. It will be a matter of preference and system synergy I think. The cleanest of the bunch was definitely the SDTrans384. 

 

What was suprising to me, is the sound of the Node 2i (using the Allo Shanti 5v LPS) in Bodiebill's system. It sounded pretty good, not as good as the other sources, but still very good. In my own system I experienced a major drop in sound quality compared to the Innuos, all the PRAT, dynamics I normally have were gone. The special thing about the PowerDac is though, that it still sounds very good, with the 'analogue' sound I like so much, a very cohesive soundstage, no harshness and all the details are also still present. But it's just losing much of the dynamic energy of better sources. This made me conclude that that systems can react quite differently on certain changes.

 

What I was positively suprised about is the Mutec reclocker. The Mutec, independent of the source, always improved the percieved sound quality. I would describe it as again a next level in lowering 'stress' in especcially mid's and high's, resulting in a very pleasing, friendlier sound without losing the dynamic 'pop'. It also resulted in even better placement. 

 

Another experiment we did was comparing my Innuos' Toslink output (which we used for all above comparisons) with the USB output of the same Innuos. This was very easy using the Mutec reclocker. Outcome was that the USB output sounds better to my ears, not a major difference, but still more pleasing. 

 

All in all I really enjoyed the evening, a gathering with like-minded 'forumfriends'. How often do you have the opportunity to compare so much interesting audio equipment?! I really hoped that the PowerDAC was really source independent. It would definitely mean I would have sold my Innnuos Zen and all expensive LPS's right away, and start enjoying all the goodness of the Node 2i. But it's just not the case for me. 

 

We all had our preferences, but one thing remains true to all of us (please correct me if I'm wrong here Vincent, Bodiebill), what a spectacular sound the PowerDAC has. Although we still found that source does matter, the PowerDAC is just an awesome piece of equipment, giving (at least for me) unparalled musical enjoyment.

 

And to finalize my report, due to yesterday's listening impressions I just ordered a 2nd hand Mutec reclocker on Ebay myself (thanks Vincent, for the tip :D). Really curious what it do bring in my setup. I once experienced that a reclocker is not per definition bringing improvements only. But if the Mutec improves things in my setup, I have the additional bonus of being able to use my preferred USB output of the Innuos and also connect multiple devices to my PowerDAC, which is a real nice to have too.

I suppose you have not done blind test using these components … until we do and find the changes.. we usually remain biased consciously as well unconsciously that better/ costly components.. say Mutech in your case .. will give better result and we start perceiving that .,. I think so far what I have gathered from the information shared by John online and through pvt  email exchanges .. source should not make difference as long as it’s bit perfect .. I think blind test is the way to conclusively find wether  source matters or not 

[bodiebill]

Thanks @Vincent des Champs and @Huubster for a really pleasant and fruitful evening, and Huubster for the accurate report.

 

A bit off topic but I cannot refrain from mentioning that with some extra strong arms in the house I dared propose that -- at the end of the evening -- we switch back from the Buchardts to my extremely heavy Spendors SP100. This I did not dare (or felt the need) to do since I received the Buchardts. But I am glad we did yesterday. In spite of the great qualities of the Buchardts (which, like a David, even suggested more bass than Spendor Goliath) at the end of the day I prefer the Spendors combined with my tube amp for their relaxed non-fatiguing and aristocratic sound. Vincent and Huubster heartily agreed. And after a night's rest I have decided to send the Buchardts back.

 

Actually not totally off topic, as this reminded me that ECD lovers love a certain type of sound, not the analytical hifi type, but the somewhat understated and warmer sound that stands the test of very long listening sessions. Good to have met a few of these kindred spirits through the forum!

[bodiebill]

21 minutes ago, Varinder said:

I suppose you have not done blind test using these components … until we do and find the changes.. we usually remain biased consciously as well unconsciously that better/ costly components.. say Mutech in your case .. will give better result and we start perceiving that .,. I think so far what I have gathered from the information shared by John online and through pvt  email exchanges .. source should not make difference as long as it’s bit perfect .. I think blind test is the way to conclusively find wether  source matters or not 

 

Actually it is the opposite. Some of us were negatively biased regarding the Mutec before the meeting. Huubster, in a private chat, mentioned that I should keep its receipt as I would probably not need it with the PD. I really think we all 3 (in spite of different biases) used our ears and we agreed for 90% on our preferences. I for one -- in spite of a previous bad experience with a Lindemann device -- slightly prefered the Lindemann Limetree to my own SOtM renderer.

 

A blind test would be an option, but we just did not feel the need as the results were so obvious. Indubitably source matters!

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

3 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

Thanks @Vincent des Champs and @Huubster for a really pleasant and fruitful evening, and Huubster for the accurate report.

 

A bit off topic but I cannot refrain from mentioning that with some extra strong arms in the house I dared propose that -- at the end of the evening -- we switch back from the Buchardts to my extremely heavy Spendors SP100. This I did not dare (or felt the need) to do since I received the Buchardts. But I am glad we did yesterday. In spite of the great qualities of the Buchardts (which, like a David, even suggested more bass than Spendor Goliath) at the end of the day I prefer the Spendors combined with my tube amp for their relaxed non-fatiguing and aristocratic sound. Vincent and Huubster heartily agreed. And after a night's rest I have decided to send the Buchardts back.

 

Actually not totally off topic, as this reminded me that ECD lovers love a certain type of sound, not the analytical hifi type, but the somewhat understated and warmer sound that stands the test of very long listening sessions. Good to have met a few of these kindred spirits through the forum!

 

It's allways good to have extra ears to help with these decisions. Too bad the Buchardt did not completely satisfy you. 

[Huubster]

34 minutes ago, Varinder said:

I suppose you have not done blind test using these components … until we do and find the changes.. we usually remain biased consciously as well unconsciously that better/ costly components.. say Mutech in your case .. will give better result and we start perceiving that .,. I think so far what I have gathered from the information shared by John online and through pvt  email exchanges .. source should not make difference as long as it’s bit perfect .. I think blind test is the way to conclusively find wether  source matters or not 

I saw something like this coming. I understand your point, but as mentioned by Bodiebill, I was quite negative about reclocking. My previous experience is that I heard the soundstage collapsing while using one.

 

Edit: Actually I'm not convinced it will have the same effect in my system, I'm really picky on extra components in my chain. But I just could't resist and pass the deal on Ebay. I can sell for the same amount it if it's not up to my standard. 

 

And I really mean what I said about the Node 2i, I love that thing due to it's great UI, it's the best UI I know of, multiple friends of mine use these things, I really wanted to hear no difference, I was hoping for it really bad, I can assure you that.

 

And finally, about being affected by knowing the cost price , the best sounding resource, the SDTrans384, is one of the cheapest ones from all, apart from the RPi. 

 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

6 minutes ago, Huubster said:

I saw something like this coming. I understand your point, but as mentioned by Bodiebill, I was quite negative about reclocking. My previous experience is that I heard the soundstage collapsing while using one.

 

And I really mean what I said about the Node 2i, I love that thing due to it's great UI, it's the best UI I know of, multiple friends of mine use these things, I really wanted to hear no difference, I was hoping for it really bad, I can assure you that.

 

And finally, about being affected by knowing the cost price , the best sounding resource, the SDTrans384, is one of the cheapest ones from all, apart from the RPi. 

 

You should try a different route as well, which I explained above. Maybe some of the solutions we have now taken for granted are not actually making things better? 

 

For example, I was reading today this experience, and found it interesting: https://www (dot) whatsbestforum.com/threads/linear-power-supply-network-findings.33164/

 

[bodiebill]

My different route was drastically minimalizing -- using the stand alone SD transport -- to the point that no network is involved at all. So far this is my benchmark, sonically. I am happy that network streamers have come closer to this benchmark, partly thanks to ECD. But in my experience the gap has not closed yet. Maybe convenience always comes at a cost? Or maybe the holy grail exists after all? Of course we all keep hoping for the latter...

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

8 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

My different route was drastically minimalizing -- using the stand alone SD transport -- to the point that no network is involved at all. So far this is my benchmark, sonically. I am happy that network streamers have come closer to this benchmark, partly thanks to ECD. But in my experience the gap has not closed yet. Maybe convenience always comes at a cost? Or maybe the holy grail exists after all? Of course we all keep hoping for the latter...

 

Have you tried another standalone source  (more basic) without any network, no power supplies added to your system and without the reclocker ? This would be even more "minimalist". I would be curious to see what you think. 

 

battery powered laptop (or phone or tablet) playing local files (for a start) bit-perfect -> USB to UT96 or U192 (no difference) -> Toslink to powerDAC -> power amps -> speakers.  

 

 

[Huubster]

7 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

You should try a different route as well, which I explained above. Maybe some of the solutions we have now taken for granted are not actually making things better? 

 

For example, I was reading today this experience, and found it interesting: https://www (dot) whatsbestforum.com/threads/linear-power-supply-network-findings.33164/

 

 

That is indeed a peculiar finding, and not in line with my own experience. I used SMPS on my router for years, even experimented with other SMPS's, like the Ifi 12v wall adapters (both 2 and 3A versions), which I found to be worse then the standard SMPS's. Once I changed to LPS's things really started to change. Never experienced a drop in my internet speed, but maybe that's because I have a max of 100mbit.. :)

 

I do admit that I can imagine that the things you mentioned can impact sound quality, but to be honest it's going a bit beyond what I'm willing and able to do. Maybe you find that lazy, but that's where I draw a line. Besides, all my equipment is crammed up in a small sized 'non-audio' rack in my living room, with a big spaghetti of cables behind it. I don't have the luxury to do whatever I want in a separate audio room. 

[Huubster]

3 minutes ago, hopkins said:

USB to UT96 or U192 (no difference)

 

Are you sure Stephane? My understanding is that the U192 uses an Xmos, which is not present in the UT96. Which is why conform to John the UT96 is the better one.. Or did I understand that wrongly?

[bodiebill]

6 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Have you tried another standalone source  (more basic) without any network, no power supplies added to your system and without the reclocker ? This would be even more "minimalist". I would be curious to see what you think. 

 

battery powered laptop (or phone or tablet) playing local files (for a start) bit-perfect -> USB to UT96 or U192 (no difference) -> Toslink to powerDAC -> power amps -> speakers.  

 

 

 

I only tried this with the previous ECD gear.

Given my experience then that the SQ with the U192 fell a little short of that with the UPL96, and this in turn fell a little short of that with the SD transport -- added to the fact that I find preparing SD cards for the latter easier than preparing disks for the UPL96 -- I have to admit that I lost incentive to go through this all again with the PD.

But maybe on a rainy day I will try it anyway...

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

15 minutes ago, Huubster said:

Besides, all my equipment is crammed up in a small sized 'non-audio' rack in my living room, with a big spaghetti of cables behind it. I don't have the luxury to do whatever I want in a separate audio room

 

That was exactly my situation! It's not ideal... I simply removed everything but the powerDAC and amplifier (no switch, no power supplies except the powerDAC's, no music server). Then you can play from a battery operated device like a laptop, and use either USB adapter. For the duration of the test, you will have a USB cable or toslink cable running from your listening position to the powerDAC, so not ideal of course, but interesting experiment nonetheless 😉

 

If there really is "source immunity" then this should work well. If not I promise I will capitulate 😁

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

9 minutes ago, Huubster said:

 

Are you sure Stephane? My understanding is that the U192 uses an Xmos, which is not present in the UT96. Which is why conform to John the UT96 is the better one.. Or did I understand that wrongly?

 

I did not get any info from ECD on the relative merits of the two, and found no difference myself, but YMMV... 

[bodiebill]

28 minutes ago, hopkins said:

That was exactly my situation! I simply removed everything but the powerDAC and amplifier (no switch, no power supplies except the powerDAC's, no music server). Then you can play from a battery operated device like a laptop, and use either USB adapter. For the duration of the test, you will have a USB cable or toslink cable running from your listening position to the powerDAC, so not ideal if course, but interesting experiment nonetheless 😉

 

Worth trying. What audio player are you using?

In my experience (possibly not yours) sound quality of audio players varies. I use JRiver as a database but do not like the sound. For Windows I much prefer the sound UPPlay and Audirvana Studio. I have the latter on trial but will probably not buy it as it is somewhat buggy.

All this: even with the PD :-|

[bodiebill]

7 minutes ago, hopkins said:

I did not get any info from ECD on the relative merits of the two, and found no difference myself, but YMMV... 

 

In that case (no SQ difference) why would anyone use (or build for that matter) a UPL96 which is certainly not as user friendly as the U192?

 

P S (edit):

Ah I think I see what you mean Stephane: you hear no SQ difference anymore between the two when using the PD?