ECdesigns

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Here are pictures of the internals. Open up the DAC at your own risk...

 

You first need to secure the front plexiglass and the display underneath it with some tape, then unscrew the two top screws:

 

 

Then gently lift the top panel, and slide the back panel up to reveal the two boards:

 

 

Unscrew the four screws located on each corner of the board, and gently remove the top DAC board from the DAPI board it is attached to (pull gently on each corner of the board).

 

 

Top DAC board is on the left, revealing the bottom DAPI board. The wires connect to the display & remote. The purple wire is for the IR remote that was added (at least on my pre-production model) after the boards were ordered. You'll see the clock (square silver) and next to it the processor which is programmed by ECD to decode/reclock the incoming Toslink signal.

[realDHT]

Thanks for the pics. The DAC board seems to be quite different to the DA96. Nice that its only 2 boards with (I hope) the same size as the DA96 bords. If I feel I need to buy this I can probably re-use my case and have extra space available in it for a DHT output stage for example 😁   

[realDHT]

18 hours ago, uber2 said:

Dac is in place, great design!

 

Acapella speakers? Looks like a nice turntable too. 

[uber2]

19 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

What are those very nice and cool looking speakers? Can you tell us more about your system? 

Thanks 

Thanks.

The speakers are avantgarde uno XD, Myronov woodenamp and Nagra classic preamp.

ksa50s/no380s drives the stand speakers.

 

Powerdac S would have been optimal for these speakers. But as tt is my Main music source analog input is a must.

Powerdac R replaces my Chord Qutest - unheard.

I have had ecdesigns dac of two generations back and was pleased with its sound.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

1 hour ago, uber2 said:

Powerdac S would have been optimal for these speakers. But as tt is my Main music source analog input is a must.

 

Though my turntable (and setup in general) is probably light years away from yours, I also want to keep the option of spinning records.

 

Even if digital  is perhaps not your main source, I am sure your impressions on the powerDAC will be interesting for others to read. 

[CapsLock]

1 hour ago, uber2 said:

Thanks.

The speakers are avantgarde uno XD, Myronov woodenamp and Nagra classic preamp.

ksa50s/no380s drives the stand speakers.

Nice systems, an exquisite selection of components. The Misho Myronov is probably the perfect match for a horn. Looking forward to your Powerdac-r report.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I am testing this setup this morning, and I thought I would share it here as it could be of interest to others:

- USB Audio Player Pro  (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro&hl=fr&gl=US) on an android tablet, with an OTG connector and USB cable going to ECD's USB/Toslink converter

- output can be set to "bit perfect"

- can compare local files stored on the tablet's SD card (so no wifi needed) to Qobuz or Tidal (streaming with wifi)  

- setup is "portable" (tablets battery powers the USB-Toslink) so you can take it to friends' or when you want to demo speakers/amps at a dealer's 👍

 

 

USB cable used here is ECD's thick pink cable which I got with the previous DAC. That cable is over 2 meter long. USB OTG short cable is an Amazon basic. 

 

[bodiebill]

@hopkins I assume this is as an alternative setup for (rather than replacement of) the setup with your NUC?

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

16 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

@hopkins I assume this is as an alternative setup for (rather than replacement of) the setup with your NUC?

 

Yes, but without going into all the quirks of my setup, I cannot (yet) play Qobuz on my NUC, and I found this to be the simplest way to play Qobuz, which I wanted to experiment with. 

 

The sound quality is on par with my NUC, to my ears, just as enjoyable, so I can take this around easily if needed.

 

Also it could be a simple way to test source immunity for those who are curious and currently only have their Uber-servers to play with. 

[bodiebill]

8 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Also it could be a simple way to test source immunity for those who currently only have their Uber-servers to play with. 

 

Great! I would think that the Android tablet is a purer source than the NUC.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

3 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

Great! I would think that the Android tablet is a purer source than the NUC.

 

They are both "basic" when compared to most audiophile setups but have both a reasonable chance of sounding very good 🙂

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

PS. Works as well with the U192, which does not require much power to run, and this way you can play 24/192 tracks without resampling. 

[mevdinc]

4 hours ago, hopkins said:

I am testing this setup this morning, and I thought I would share it here as it could be of interest to others:

- USB Audio Player Pro  (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.extreamsd.usbaudioplayerpro&hl=fr&gl=US) on an android tablet, with an OTG connector and USB cable going to ECD's USB/Toslink converter

- output can be set to "bit perfect"

- can compare local files stored on the tablet's SD card (so no wifi needed) to Qobuz or Tidal (streaming with wifi)  

- setup is "portable" (tablets battery powers the USB-Toslink) so you can take it to friends' or when you want to demo speakers/amps at a dealer's 👍

 

 

USB cable used here is ECD's thick pink cable which I got with the previous DAC. That cable is over 2 meter long. USB OTG short cable is an Amazon basic. 

 

Excellent, this is how I intend to use the PowerDAC in my system; with a USB/Toslink converter. This would simply allow me to replace my Lindemann DAC and use the existing setup (Mac Mini, Qobuz, Audirvana).

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Following discussions here (and privately with some of you) on source immunity, I was curious to plug my UPL again and compare it to another source to check whether I had been wrong in my initial assessment. 

 

I setup the UPL again (had not used it in over a month). I compared it to the Tablet setup described previously, connected to the U192 which has the same output level as the UPL. I used the same electroTos cable in both cases. 

 

I mostly listened to the same track, "You'd Be So Nice To Come Home To" from the album "Art Pepper Meets the Rhythm Section". I know it well, it is, well recorded. I focused on how the individual instruments sounded, and the overall presentation. 

 

 

 

 

I first listened to a minute on the U192, then put the beginning of the song back on the UPL. I immediately told myself: "damn, this sounds better", and  thought "oh well, I'll have to go back to putting all my music in 001-999 folders...". Playing the song back again on the U192, I realized that the very beginning, before the saxophone comes in, sounds different from the rest of the song, so when you stop in the middle and start over, you always have a slightly different feeling of sound quality. Swapping again back and forth, and then listening to a few other songs confirmed that I cannot hear ANY differences between the two sources. 

 

Don't think an android tablet playing local files was ever competitive with the UPL. I had tried many times before and it never was. 

 

Perhaps the UPL is not the best source there is, after all? That can obviously not be ruled out. But in that case, the bar has been set pretty high! 

 

Maybe my system is limited, or I have hearing problems.

 

Looking forward to those listening reports! 

[bodiebill]

10 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Following discussions here (and privately with some of you) on source immunity, I was curious to plug my UPL again and compare it to another source to check whether I had not been wrong in my initial assessment. 

 

I setup the UPL again (had not used it in over a month). I compared it to the Tablet setup described previously, connected to the U192 which has the same output level as the UPL. I used the same electroTos cable in both cases. 

 

I mostly listened to the same track, "You'd Be So Nice To Come Home To" from the album "Art Pepper Meets the Rhythm Section". I know it well, it is, well recorded. I focused on how the individual instruments sounded, and the overall presentation. 

 

 

 

 

I first listened to a minute on the U192, then put the beginning of the song back on the UPL. I immediately told myself: "damn, this sounds better", and  thought "oh well, I'll have to go back to putting all my music in 001-999 folders...". Playing the song back again on the U192, I realized that the very beginning, before the saxophone comes in, sounds different from the rest of the song, so when you stop in the middle and start over, you always have a slightly different feeling of sound quality. Swapping again back and forth, and then listening to a few other songs confirmed that I cannot hear ANY differences between the two sources. 

 

Don't think an android tablet playing local files was ever competitive with the UPL. I had tried many times before and it never was. 

 

Perhaps the UPL is not the best source there is, after all? That can obviously not be ruled out. 

 

Maybe my system is limited, or I have hearing problems.

 

Looking forward to those listening reports! 

 

Interesting report Stephane.

Yesterday I tried something similar, with my SDTrans384 (stand alone SD transport). This was not yet possible with the DA96 but now is possible with the PD as follows:

SDTrans => BNC => Mutec reclocker/converter => TosLink => PD

It took me 5 seconds to realize te improvement over my streaming setup with the SOtM sMS-200 Ultra Neo. More warmth, spaciousness and especially involvement.

This surprised me a little as since the arrival of the Mutec my streaming quality has improved so much that I only listened to streaming since then. By the way, by streaming I mean sending files from my own collection from a Windows 10 PC using UpPlay or Audirvana Studio as a control point to the SOtM/eunhasu renderer.

I hope you will be able to come and have a listen yourself some time :-)

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I've given this some thought, and I think you should also perform the same comparison with your regular amp and speakers or headphones.  While the Buchardt may have benefits over your passive speakers, the Buchardt A500 are powered and have DSP (A/D and D/A as the input is analog). This introduces some additional variables. 

 

- quality of the conversion (though that itself could probably not explain how you get two different results with the same source, assuming the analog out from the powerDAC is identical in both cases). 

 

- susceptibility to interferences (given the Buchardt are powered and have sensitive AD/DA conversion) - could be different when running the SDTrans versus the SOtM as there are different components plugged in to the mains and running (along with the Buchardt). 

 

I cannot think of any other explanations as my tests (both on speakers and on headphones directly connected to the powerDAC) don't show any effect of the source, power supply, USB cables, etc... I'm curious to know if I am completely missing out on something! 

 

On my side, I am going to try to organize another comparison in someone else's system, to test the effect of various changes. 

[bodiebill]

Thanks Stephane, once again interesting stuff.

 

Now you are trying to save the source (upstream) immunity phenomenon by blaming downstream components?  🙃A case of cognitive dissonance reduction? 😊

 

Just joking... The setups compared (as you partly know) are:

 

(1) SOtM setup
UPPlay or Audirvana Studio control point (Windows 10 PC) => CAT8/fiber/CAT6 => SOtM (powered by PH SR4 15V) => USB => Mutec => Toslink

=> Power DAC-R (powered by LPSU 6.7V + LT3045 5V) RCA => The Truth preamp => RCA-XLR adapter => DIY 3m XLR cables => Buchardt A500 analogue input

 

(2) SD setup

SDTrans384 (powered by PH SRT4 5V) => BNC => Mutec => Toslink

=> Power DAC-R etc. same as above

 

If you say about the active Buchardts that "this introduces some additional variables" these would be the same for both setups as these are downstream and the setups have downstream part (from the PD) in common. Therefore the processing of the Buchardt (which I must say is very transparant and does justice to the external DACs) is the same in both cases.

 

But if you mean that there is some subtle difference in intereaction between up- and downstream components, this becomes a bit too elusive for me. Then it would become impossible to pinpoint the culprit of certain changes within a chain as everything should be approached holistically. Actually I think this may actually be the case: at the end of the day we do not know.

 

Although less inclined to do so due to the great results with the actives, I promised myself to again hook up my previous amp and (passive) speakers (see my profile) next week now that I am more familiar with the broken in Buchardts. And of course I will report back then.  

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

30 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

But if you mean that there is some subtle difference in intereaction between up- and downstream components, this becomes a bit too elusive for me. Then it would become impossible to pinpoint the culprit of certain changes within a chain as everything should be approached holistically. Actually I think this may actually be the case: at the end of the day we do not know.

 

This is what I mean, and it does make things complicated - that is why I often go back to plugging headphones directly into the PowerDAC (even though I find listening to speakers ultimately more enjoyable). 

[bodiebill]

7 minutes ago, hopkins said:

This is what I mean, and it does make things complicated - that is why I often go back to plugging headphones directly into the PowerDAC (even though I find listening to speakers ultimately more enjoyable). 

 

Yes, that seems like a good way to simplify the test. It is a pity that both my serious headphones (TakeT and Hifiman) are way too demanding for the PD :-)

 

I feel another post coming up...

[bodiebill]

I tried my Hifiman HE-6 headphones directly on the Power DAC, however the volume is much too low -- which could have been be expected with their 83.5 dB sensitivity and 50 Ohms nominal impedance.

My TakeT I should forget about as they really need speaker outputs and a powerful amp. 

 

ECD's website states that the PD's "... low output impedance and 1.4V rms max. output amplitude make it also suitable to directly drive most headphones with impedance between 32 Ohms and up (tested / verified)."

 

What would be suitable sensitivity/impedance combinations?

[bodiebill]

I do not quite understand "between 32 Ohms and up".

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Headphone sensitivity is also important, as you just found out.  To give you an idea, last night, I lilstened to my Beyerdynamic DT990 Pro, 250 Ohm but 110db sensitivity. Plugged in to the PowerDAC directly, with a y-cable, I listened with the volume quite high, up to 9 on some softer tracks. When using my Grado GH2, which are 32 Ohm and 100db (approximately), volume only has to be set to 4 or 5 to reach maximum listening level.

 

Maybe there is a calculator to correlate impedance+sensitivity ? Don't know.

EDIT: just found this one: https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/. If you set the impedance to 32 Ohms, you can see that you need 5 times more voltage to drive a headphone of 85db as opposed to 100db.

 

Yes another edit - this site is simpler to use: http://www.digizoid.com/headphones-power.html

[realDHT]

The very low sensitivity of the hifiman is for sure the problem. 50 ohms should be okay. Many headphones have 100-110 dB/mW sensitivity. I also read that the HE-6 sensitivity might be even lower than the stated specification, some guy measured 77 dB/mW.

 

This looks to be a good webpage, with some info and a lot of examples

https://mynewmicrophone.com/the-complete-guide-to-headphones-sensitivity-ratings/

 

[realDHT]

1 hour ago, bodiebill said:

I do not quite understand "between 32 Ohms and up".

I think John means he did not test headphones below 32 ohms. Lower impedance requires more current from the DAC to drive and would at some point give a problem with distortion and/or freq. response. Higher impedance would not be a problem other than the SPL goes down.   

[bodiebill]

Thanks @realDHT for the useful link and explanation. I will look for a possible headphone candidate for the PD...