ECdesigns

[Norton]

Great write-up Stephane and interesting that it beats the DAC96ETL.

 

I’m sure it will be their final DAC (apart from all the future ones that is...)

[Huubster]

33 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

I like the unit much more "in person" than in pictures. It is really small. The picture I put on the blog entry, is how I have it now, next to my turntable, so you can appreciate the size. My girlfriend likes it, and likes the fact that there is overall less "spaghetti" ! So its a winner for everyone :)

 

Less, spaghetti, true. I especially like the fact that the ElectroTos cable is out of the equation. I'm a true believer and fan of good cables, and I know John good enough by now to state that his ElectroTos cable is the nothing special (which is mildly put I think.. 🙃). 

[mevdinc]

5 hours ago, hopkins said:

ECDesigns have completed the PowerDAC-R model, and were kind enough to send me a pre-production model to beta-test. You will find my "preview" here: https://audiophilestyle.com/blogs/blog/662-hopkins-blog/

 

It should be available within a few months, and will be priced between 1100 and 1200€ excluding VAT. Shipment outside the EU will be possible. 

 

I initially planned on posting my impressions shortly before it was offered for sale on their website. Had questions been asked until then, I would have felt uncomfortable not answering them or withholding the fact that I had the opportunity to test it. I hope people interested will appreciate reading about it now, even though there's a little longer to wait before you can purchase it :)

 

 

Wow, you lucky thing! :)

Great write up, I am really curious to hear it in my system although it only offers RCA outputs.
I wish they'd offer balanced output but presumably they think it's not necessary. There must be so many people like me with XLR inputs only. I really wouldn't like to use an adapter (RCA to XLR) but if that's the only option then it might be worth a shot.

I wish they'd use me aa a BETA tester to see how it sounds in my system. :)
Put in a good word for me Hopkins. :)))

Thanks for sharing your initial impressions. 

[Ben75]

38 minutes ago, mevdinc said:

Wow, you lucky thing! :)

Great write up, I am really curious to hear it in my system although it only offers RCA outputs.
I wish they'd offer balanced output but presumably they think it's not necessary. There must be so many people like me with XLR inputs only. I really wouldn't like to use an adapter (RCA to XLR) but if that's the only option then it might be worth a shot.

I wish they'd use me aa a BETA tester to see how it sounds in my system. :)
Put in a good word for me Hopkins. :)))

Thanks for sharing your initial impressions. 

Hi Mevdinc,

 

1) You will have 15 days to send back the PowerDAC-R when it will be launched (but I think you will not ..)

2) Perhaps should you ask to John what he could do for you (adding a XLR output to your unit? developping Y-cable adapter?)

3) For the little price and the huge quality you have I cannot recommend you more about getting a unit for you !

 

All the best,

[mevdinc]

1 hour ago, Ben75 said:

Hi Mevdinc,

 

1) You will have 15 days to send back the PowerDAC-R when it will be launched (but I think you will not ..)

2) Perhaps should you ask to John what he could do for you (adding a XLR output to your unit? developping Y-cable adapter?)

3) For the little price and the huge quality you have I cannot recommend you more about getting a unit for you !

 

All the best,

Hi Ben,

I currently live in Istanbul. But I do have a friend who lives in Amsterdam, I could get him to bring a PowerDAC to me when things turn to a bit normal, perhaps in a month or two.
I will definitely ask ECDesigns if they plan to offer a solution for XLR inputs. 
Thanks.

[tims]

Thanks for the review @hopkins👍.  For me, it's a pity the PowerDAC-R doesn't have more toslink inputs but I'm guessing this is to eliminate noise?

With the PowerDAC-R's apparent source immunity feature then a multiple input toslink switcher such as the one linked below would be a 'no-brainer' to expand the input range - do you agree?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MLQ6YH4?tag=offthebroiler-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1&keywords=Toslink Switch

 

[seeteeyou]

On 12/26/2020 at 9:47 PM, hopkins said:

Yes, you may want to hold off on purchasing the Taiko Extreme 😃 (just pulling your leg...).

 

No more excuses anymore, @matthias could also send that to Taiko Audio for the sake of conducting a "litmus test" so that he's definitely getting a "solid proof" in terms of source immunity

 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/schiit-cd-transport-on-the-way-soon/post?postid=2047245#2047245

Quote

No I2S because there's too many variation of it, but aes/ebu, rca, and toslink as well as the USB-c, from what I gather.

 

Only Toslink now, no need to think about USB

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/24966-ecdesigns/page/30/?tab=comments#comment-1072857

On 8/9/2020 at 7:51 PM, matthias said:

I certainly will give the ECDs a try. 

I am waiting for release of a CD transport with USB output from another manufacturer. They do testing at the moment for compatibility with several USB inputs like the XMOS the ECD uses.

So I am not going to buy the ECD combo until there is clarification that both work together without issues.

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

5 hours ago, tims said:

Thanks for the review @hopkins👍.  For me, it's a pity the PowerDAC-R doesn't have more toslink inputs but I'm guessing this is to eliminate noise?

With the PowerDAC-R's apparent source immunity feature then a multiple input toslink switcher such as the one linked below would be a 'no-brainer' to expand the input range - do you agree?

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07MLQ6YH4?tag=offthebroiler-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1&keywords=Toslink Switch

 

 

That would work, IMO.

 

I assume they chose to have only one input to keep the PowerDAC small, and "affordable" as well.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

4 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

No more excuses anymore, @matthias could also send that to Taiko Audio for the sake of conducting a "litmus test" so that he's definitely getting a "solid proof" in terms of source immunity

 

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/schiit-cd-transport-on-the-way-soon/post?postid=2047245#2047245

 

Only Toslink now, no need to think about USB

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/24966-ecdesigns/page/30/?tab=comments#comment-1072857

 

 

I gave my opinion about the "source immunity" aspect but perhaps others will hear it differently (with their own ears, in different systems). 

 

Now that the release has been made public I will try to take it to others' and do a few comparisons. 

 

Vis-à-vis products like the Taiko, I am not sure a comparison would even make sense as you would need a USB-optical conversion to use the Taiko with the PowerDAC, and that would defeat the purpose of having a Taiko in the first place, as the Taiko is meant to offer a very low noise USB source. 

 

If you want to use high resolution files, USB is still the way to go. 

 

 

 

[tapatrick]

On 4/20/2021 at 5:46 PM, Huubster said:

 

Less, spaghetti, true. I especially like the fact that the ElectroTos cable is out of the equation. I'm a true believer and fan of good cables, and I know John good enough by now to state that his ElectroTos cable is the nothing special (which is mildly put I think.. 🙃). 

True the electroTos cable may be nothing special but what I find refreshing about EC designs products and research is that they are making innovative breakthroughs in the overall goal of improving digital audio. I have been enjoying the U192 and Fractal DAC for several months now and the only thing I have been keeping an eye on is the new PowerDac. Frankly the obsession about cables and other pieces of the audio chain in isolation is no longer of interest.

[tapatrick]

On 4/20/2021 at 3:44 PM, hopkins said:

ECDesigns have completed the PowerDAC-R model, and were kind enough to send me a pre-production model to beta-test. You will find my "preview" here: https://audiophilestyle.com/blogs/blog/662-hopkins-blog/

 

Thanks for the update @hopkins  great to hear. Its the only thing I've been waiting for :)

.

[Huubster]

22 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

True the electroTos cable may be nothing special but what I find refreshing about EC designs products and research is that they are making innovative breakthroughs in the overall goal of improving digital audio. I have been enjoying the U192 and Fractal DAC for several months now and the only thing I have been keeping an eye on is the new PowerDac. 

 

Completely agree tapatrick, please don't think I'm not happy with the Fractal combi, I've never been happier with my sound!

 

But I'm pretty sure that the cable is holding back things a bit, not that I'm worrying about it at all.. ☺️

[tapatrick]

12 minutes ago, Huubster said:

 

Completely agree tapatrick, please don't think I'm not happy with the Fractal combi, I've never been happier with my sound!

 

But I'm pretty sure that the cable is holding back things a bit, not that I'm worrying about it at all.. ☺️

Sure thing.. When I saw the electroTos cable first I thought it was a joke but when I plugged it all in my jaw dropped, so this has only helped to broaden my outlook and cure me from unnecessarily obsessing over minute details 😂😂

[tapatrick]

The incoming digital signal is buffered into a micro-controller’s random-access memory (RAM), sample rate is determined algorithmically, and parallel data is output based on timing provided by a single master clock (asynchronously).

@hopkinsDo you know what frequency the master clock runs at? I can ask John if not...

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

5 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

The incoming digital signal is buffered into a micro-controller’s random-access memory (RAM), sample rate is determined algorithmically, and parallel data is output based on timing provided by a single master clock (asynchronously).

@hopkinsDo you know what frequency the master clock runs at? I can ask John if not...

 

Yes, please ask him, I don't know the details. 

[realDHT]

John told me earlier it runs at 200 MHz.

[tapatrick]

14 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

Yes, please ask him, I don't know the details. 

I found the info in an earlier email exchange:

"The S/PDIF DAPI receiver in the PowerDAC has one single 200 MHz master clock for CPU & D/A converter timing (all circuits run in one and the same time domain and all share very low jitter timing signals."

 

[mevdinc]

How do we get in touch with John, anyone care to share contact info via DM if it's not public already?
Thanks.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

53 minutes ago, mevdinc said:

How do we get in touch with John, anyone care to share contact info via DM if it's not public already?
Thanks.

 

Their contact info is on their website. 

[tapatrick]

On 4/22/2021 at 10:54 AM, tapatrick said:

I found the info in an earlier email exchange:

"The S/PDIF DAPI receiver in the PowerDAC has one single 200 MHz master clock for CPU & D/A converter timing (all circuits run in one and the same time domain and all share very low jitter timing signals."

 

I was in touch with John Brown about the 200 MHz master clock as I have been involved in projects where upgrading audio clocks and supplying clean power has resulted in improved SQ. I wanted to know if this would help to improved the upcoming PowerDac.

 

There is a real elegance in his approach and explanations on eliminating jitter in the new PowerDac - primarily by removing the dependance on I2S and choosing Toslink. As we have heard before this removes the related large bandwidth switching spectrum and related jitter issues are eliminated. Then by using an independent, single low frequency clock & timing signal the related switching noise spectrum is kept under control much more easily.

"Now we can get away with a plain crystal oscillator powered by a reasonably clean supply voltage and basically any bit-perfect source providing Toslink output."

 

"So the jitter problem is tackled at the root instead of attempting to limit the damage afterwards. There is no (FIFO)  re-clocking, clean timing signal is generated from scratch and data is parallel (no jitter related issues here either)."

 

"The now far less critical master clock is powered by a clean power supply so its output contains low phase noise. We have chosen a crystal oscillator with low phase noise close to the carrier."

 

"It is possible to connect a different external power supply but I doubt if this would cause clearly audible changes. Suitable battery power supply would also be possible (should not exceed 5V5). But this option is available as the PowerDAC - R is externally powered by a 5V supply."

 

Magic stuff!

[tapatrick]

EC Design have a Tube amp project in the pipeline which is another very interesting development. Not sure if this has been shared but John suggest doing this with any SE Tube amp users.

 

"In order to get best transient impulse response from a SE (tube) amplifier is invert the polarity of the input signal and connect plus speaker terminal to minus output and minus terminal to plus output. Now a positive transient becomes a negative transient at the SE (tube) amplifier input and the output tube or semiconductor pulls down this rising transient very quickly. The reversed connected speaker now produces excellent transient impulse response. I am not sure if anyone uses or even considered this simple trick to improve the sound quality of existing SE amps."

 

I tried it with my tube Mono Amps and resulted in more vigor and sparkle to the sound. I have spent years removing harshness from my system, (i.e I don't like solid state amps and digital sounding computers) but this restores the life that can be missing if you go too far.... Worth a try if you have an SE tube amp..

[Gavin1977]

10 hours ago, tapatrick said:

EC Design have a Tube amp project in the pipeline which is another very interesting development. Not sure if this has been shared but John suggest doing this with any SE Tube amp users.

 

"In order to get best transient impulse response from a SE (tube) amplifier is invert the polarity of the input signal and connect plus speaker terminal to minus output and minus terminal to plus output. Now a positive transient becomes a negative transient at the SE (tube) amplifier input and the output tube or semiconductor pulls down this rising transient very quickly. The reversed connected speaker now produces excellent transient impulse response. I am not sure if anyone uses or even considered this simple trick to improve the sound quality of existing SE amps."

 

I tried it with my tube Mono Amps and resulted in more vigor and sparkle to the sound. I have spent years removing harshness from my system, (i.e I don't like solid state amps and digital sounding computers) but this restores the life that can be missing if you go too far.... Worth a try if you have an SE tube amp..

I think this is very interesting...  the neutral qualities of the ECD DAC should match tubes really well.  I am presently trying DHT (Directly Heated Triode) 301a tubes in a preamp.  DHT are able to 'rock', and aren't rounded like the classic romantic tube sound.  Keep us posted if you hear of any other developments.

[tapatrick]

17 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said:

I think this is very interesting...  the neutral qualities of the ECD DAC should match tubes really well.  I am presently trying DHT (Directly Heated Triode) 301a tubes in a preamp.  DHT are able to 'rock', and aren't rounded like the classic romantic tube sound.  Keep us posted if you hear of any other developments.

Sure Gav will do. I find this very interesting as my Decware tube amps don't really have that 'tubey' rounded sound. They are very articulate, detailed & precise yet this 'tweak' to my surprise enhanced the SQ without any harshness being introduced - as its I presume not to do with the digital front end of the system... There is more to come from John I expect on his reasons for developing the SE tube amp to go with the PowerDac R.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

By the way, John is also the one who recommended these flat DIY speaker cables I talk about here:

He uses them in his system as well. The results are quite surprising. The improvement in my system and in a friend's was significant. 

 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I was asked by one of you to compare playback from local files versus streaming services. I tried with Qobuz, using the LMS plugin, and comparing a few albums that I had purchased on the Qobuz store ( so when played through the Qobuz plugin, they are obviously sitting on Qobuz' servers and being streamed). Hard to tell them apart... I would not bet on being able to do so in a blind test. One caveat - my NUC is connected to the network in both cases, as I need the network connection to control playback. So maybe both are non-optimal ? Please remember that I came to the same conclusions comparing playback with the UPL...