ECdesigns

[mevdinc]

8 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

Probably a bad choice of words from ECD, on both counts. 

 

On a side note, I am sure they would get more attention if they were to sell their "entry level" model for 10.000 euros with an expensive metal case. Then they could sell the more powerful speaker model for 30.000 euros and call it "PowerDAC Extreme".

 

I hope they are not reading this 😄

 

I don't judge equipment by its price tag, the more expensive certainly doesn't mean better quality as you all know.
I have a very expensive active speaker system because I love the ATC speakers and decided to buy the special anniversary edition system with a lifetime guarantee, which I intend to keep for as long as possible.
But I have a DAC that cost me around €3,5000, it's an all-in-one DAC and I have been using with a lot of satisfaction.

ECD DAC has interested me because of their approach and their aim to create a great sounding DAC. And also all the enthusiasm and satisfaction expressed in this topic raised my interest further.
As a result, I would like to try the new ECD DAC if I can with my existing system.
Stay safe everyone.
 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

13 hours ago, mevdinc said:

I don't judge equipment by its price tag, the more expensive certainly doesn't mean better quality as you all know.
I have a very expensive active speaker system because I love the ATC speakers and decided to buy the special anniversary edition system with a lifetime guarantee, which I intend to keep for as long as possible.
But I have a DAC that cost me around €3,5000, it's an all-in-one DAC and I have been using with a lot of satisfaction.

ECD DAC has interested me because of their approach and their aim to create a great sounding DAC. And also all the enthusiasm and satisfaction expressed in this topic raised my interest further.
As a result, I would like to try the new ECD DAC if I can with my existing system.
Stay safe everyone.
 

 

Thanks for clarifying your point of view. It is true that the feedback on this forum has been overwhelmingly excellent. Yet, their appeal is limited, and there are numerous  reasons for this, which have already been mentioned:

- they are a small outfit, and assemble their products themselves (production is limited)

- they don't invest  in promotion (aside for their informative website and the occasional demos at audio clubs in Holland), they don't send products for reviews, and have no distribution network

- they have limited sales outside the E.U. (recently)

- their products have often changed

 

If the next product generation really "delivers", and we come to the realization that their solution is pretty much "final" (on the digital side, not considering amplification aspects), I think they will certainly have much wider appeal. With their new Toslink interface, it will also be much easier to compare their product to other DACs, so I am sure we can expect more benchmarks than we see today, as the current Fractal DAC is not compatible with sources other than ECD's own (and the U192 probably has some limitations today). If it turns out that these new products offer significantly better performance than even top of the line products (and render moot the question of the source), then it will  be interesting to see how they handle the other aspects mentioned above: production and distribution. Moreover, if they do "deliver" on their claims, this could potentially significantly alter the current "landscape" of digital audio vendors - from software, to servers, network appliances, cables, and DACs... That's the way I see things :)

 

 

[matthias]

13 hours ago, hopkins said:

If the next product generation really "delivers", and we come to the realization that their solution is pretty much "final" (on the digital side, not considering amplification aspects), I think they will certainly have much wider appeal. With their new Toslink interface, it will also be much easier to compare their product to other DACs, so I am sure we can expect more benchmarks than we see today, as the current Fractal DAC is not compatible with sources other than ECD's own (and the U192 probably has some limitations today). 

 

Considering the speaker version of the PowerDAC the digital side and the amplification aspects are nearly impossible to separate since both are integral parts of the concept. So the speaker PowerDAC is also nearly impossible to compare to other DACs since I am not aware of other manufacturers offering a similar product.

I agree, comparisons might be possible with the HP PowerDAC.

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

ECD just published a lot of information on their upcoming products on their website:

 

https://www.ecdesigns.nl/en/blog/rd-powerdac

 

- "PowerDAC - R" (for RCA out)

- "PowerDAC - S" (for Speaker out)

 

They do not mention when they will be available, as they are actively working on them (the picture is a working prototype).

[matthias]

32 minutes ago, hopkins said:

ECD just published a lot of information on their upcoming products on their website:

 

https://www.ecdesigns.nl/en/blog/rd-powerdac

 

- "PowerDAC - R" (for RCA out)

- "PowerDAC - S" (for Speaker out)

 

They do not mention when they will be available, as they are actively working on them (the picture is a working prototype).

 

I assume the development of the PowerDAC-R is more advanced since they did not post pictures of the PowerDAC-S.

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

9 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

I assume the development of the PowerDAC-R is more advanced since they did not post pictures of the PowerDAC-S.

 

Matt

 

The two share the same basic technology (DAPI and DAC part), and both will have the same "look" (the "S" will of course be larger - size of CD player, as mentioned on their blog), so I think development is in parallel, but you would have to ask them, I do not know if one will be released before the other.

 

The "R" model is really compact - I like the design (though I assume "finish" may be slightly different in the production version).

[matthias]

25 minutes ago, hopkins said:

I like the design (though I assume "finish" may be slightly different in the production version).

 

I dislike the visual appearance, I would prefer one not standing but flat with the cooling fins on top. That would be - at least in my understanding - be even better since the heat can dissipate more evenly upwards. I hope they change that in the final execution or offer a second variant.

I would definitely not like to have it in my living room.

 

Matt

[seeteeyou]

IMHO they might have the potential to make the same mistakes like what Chord did before

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-652#post-13980547

Quote

Just a side note for those thinking of using optical and considering expensive glass cables.....one of the most expensive, the WireWorld Supernova 7 is not compatible with DAVE. Due to the recessed connections on DAVE, the cable doesn't lock in all the way and it will not hold a 24/192 connection.

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-652#post-13980554

Quote

This is not just with expensive optical cables. I have taken a knife to my optical cable plugs to get them to fit within the recess. Fine if they are cheap but it will spoil any resale value for expensive cables.

 

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/chord-hugo.19938/reviews

Quote

Problematically, the first Hugos had tightly enclosed and recessed RCA sockets as Chord had not anticipated people using it in other than a portable manner. The outcry lead them to widen the holes around the RCA sockets, though users of cables with very large RCA plugs are going to have issues. Most of my Van Den Hul cables were fine, but my ALO Audio Reference 20s were no-go.

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-hugo-2-the-official-thread.831345/page-798#post-14151169

Quote

The Hugo 2 is frustrating in that regard, most high quality RCA connectors do not fit the openings, my Gutwire cables don't fit, Furutech plugs don't fit, only the bullet and a very old pair of Linn...

 

Recessed jacks are great for shipping purposes and non-audiophiles are also fine with them, though we audiophiles aren't necessarily big fans of adding some kinda adapters if our RCA interconnects weren't a good fit for those tiny little openings.

[matthias]

Maybe they can hire an product designer for the final shape of the PowerDACs.

Would be very nice. 😀

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

10 minutes ago, matthias said:

Maybe they can hire an product designer for the final shape of the PowerDACs.

Would be very nice. 😀

 

Matt

 

Everyone is going to have a different opinion (as I mentioned, I find it ok, and my equipment is not really on "display" in my living room anyway).

 

Concerning the recessed RCA jacks, I agree they should make the openings wider. As for the Toslink jack, a standard toslink cable should fit, and using an expensive "audiophile" Toslink cable as the wireworld mentioned above makes absolutely no sense.

[matthias]

15 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Everyone is going to have a different opinion

 

Of course, so they should have something what is mostly accepted.

This design looks like a computer screen from the last century. :-(

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

9 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Of course, so they should have something what is mostly accepted.

This design looks like a computer screen from the last century. :-(

 

Matt

 

For the "R" model, it does not bother me - the thing is going to be tiny anyway (20x17). That is exactly the size of my small fanless desktop PC, and it is a little larger than the current model.

 

For the "S" model, the heat dissipation is a real issue, from what I understand, and that was a deciding factor in having it upright. 

[matthias]

12 minutes ago, hopkins said:

For the "R" model, it does not bother me - the thing is going to be tiny anyway (20x17). That is exactly the size of my small fanless desktop PC, a little larger than the current models.

 

For the "S" model, the heat dissipation is a real issue, from what I understand, and that was a deciding factor in having it upright.

 

If the vertical shape is a must be I would accept it, but then with the inputs and outputs on the sides so you have the option to mount it at the wall between the speakers.

 

Matt

 

 

[realDHT]

The design reminds me of some B&O products (famous for their designers by the way 😉)

https://www.beoworld.org/prod_details.asp?pid=953

 

Agree that the recessed RCA contacts could be a problem.

 

[matthias]

16 minutes ago, realDHT said:

The design reminds me of some B&O products (famous for their designers by the way 😉)

https://www.beoworld.org/prod_details.asp?pid=953

 

Agree that the recessed RCA contacts could be a problem.

 

 

Something like that would be nice, it is a speaker but anyway.....

 

https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/speakers/beosound-level?variant=beosound-level-gva-natural-dark-grey

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

13 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Something like that would be nice, it is a speaker but anyway.....

 

https://www.bang-olufsen.com/en/speakers/beosound-level?variant=beosound-level-gva-natural-dark-grey

 

Matt

 

If all this works as well as they claim, then maybe you'll see some other vendors offering a "pimped up" version with different casing/design so everyone can be happy 😉 

[matthias]

2 minutes ago, hopkins said:

If all this works as well as they claim, then maybe you'll see some other vendors offering a "pimped up" version with different casing/design so everyone can be happy 😉 

 

You mean OEM?

Thanks

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Just now, matthias said:

 

You mean OEM?

Thanks

 

Matt

 

I guess so - but have no idea or info. I just wanted to give you some hope :)

[matthias]

21 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

I guess so - but have no idea or info. I just wanted to give you some hope :)

 

Haha, I think they would not have to change so much to get more people happy.

Some basic things, perhaps they get it up to the end of the year.

No connectors at the back would be a first step.

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

3 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Haha, I think they would not have to change so much to get more people happy.

Some basic things, perhaps they get it up to the end of the year.

No connectors at the back would be a first step.

 

Matt

 

I don't know too many people who hang their DACs on the wall. Anyway, as I mentioned, it is small, and if it works as they claim, it will mean we can ditch quite a lot of gear to make room for it in our equipment racks or desktops 🙂 

[matthias]

2 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

I don't know too many people who hang their DACs on the wall. Anyway, as I mentioned, it is small, and if it works as they claim, it will mean we can ditch quite a lot of gear to make room for it in our equipment racks or desktops 🙂 

 

I mean with no connectors on the backside you have freedom to place it on the wall or flat on top of a rack or vertical.

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

10 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

I mean with no connectors on the backside you have freedom to place it on the wall or flat on top of a rack or vertical.

 

Matt

 

We can agree that this design is "not for you", and leave it at that.

[FIndingit]

It’s very 1970’s. 

[numlog]

 

I would've thought lying flat would be better for cooling, since heat rises.
It is an unusual design choice, it seems like it would be kind of awkward for headphones, and I guess you are expected to use RCA adapter for them aswell?

[murphythecat87]

kinda dissapointed that for headphone use we will have to use a separate cable directly from the RCA

that also make it impossible to use the headphone powerdac as both a source for speaker amps and headphone as Id have to disconnect the headphone cable every time

probably a deal braker for me

ill simply get a DA96ETF