Popular Post realDHT Posted October 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 25, 2020 I made an usb cable for external power to the U192 this evening. The cable also made it easy to measure the current consumption. The U192 draws around 130 mA playing 24/96 music, wanted to know since extensive modifications are planned 😁 bodiebill, Qhwoeprktiyns and szczemirek 2 1 Link to comment
bodiebill Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 Looks neat! looking forward to your assessment of the effect on SQ :-) audio system Link to comment
guls Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 Did anyone manage to get the fractal DAC shipped to US? I tried reaching out to John and was told USA will be available in thr drop down. It is not and didn't get a response after that. People who have used both - how much better is fractal DAC compared to Mosaic UV, is it a small difference or night and day? Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 On 10/22/2020 at 9:19 PM, hopkins said: Concerning the issue with ECD's SVC I asked ECD about it and I am using the wrong combination of SVCs (you'll notice there are two versions on their website) with the DA96, so am getting this sorted out and will report back after. Not sure there are too many customers with both SVCs and DA96ETF, so it may be of limited interest, but I thought it preferable to inform others anyway. I am curious to see how the SVC will perform after. Got everything sorted out and the SVC is now performing very well :) realDHT 1 Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 12 hours ago, guls said: Did anyone manage to get the fractal DAC shipped to US? I tried reaching out to John and was told USA will be available in thr drop down. It is not and didn't get a response after that. People who have used both - how much better is fractal DAC compared to Mosaic UV, is it a small difference or night and day? I have both, but don't have a very good USB source to compare them with. I use exclusively the UPL as a source with the new DAC. The Mosaic UV never had the transparency I am hearing now but I was probably not getting the best of it. Not sure this will be of any help! There are others here (Jacob) with both the Mosaic UV and new DAC. guls 1 Link to comment
matthias Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Some updates from ECD about the PowerDAC: "I have been optimising the Fractal D/A converter driver boards. PCBs for the next test version have been ordered. There are plans to offer a bridge version (double output power) for driving less sensitive speakers. Focus right now is on the development of a novel DAPI (Digital Audio Parallel Interface) receiver for the PowerDAC and headphones PowerDAC. USB only DAPI receiver, proof of concept version, is already up and running. The USB / Toslink / Coax DAPI receiver is under development." Matt Ben75 1 "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 46 minutes ago, matthias said: Some updates from ECD about the PowerDAC: "I have been optimising the Fractal D/A converter driver boards. PCBs for the next test version have been ordered. There are plans to offer a bridge version (double output power) for driving less sensitive speakers. Focus right now is on the development of a novel DAPI (Digital Audio Parallel Interface) receiver for the PowerDAC and headphones PowerDAC. USB only DAPI receiver, proof of concept version, is already up and running. The USB / Toslink / Coax DAPI receiver is under development." Matt LOL, the saga continues ! Link to comment
Ben75 Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 2 hours ago, matthias said: Some updates from ECD about the PowerDAC: "I have been optimising the Fractal D/A converter driver boards. PCBs for the next test version have been ordered. There are plans to offer a bridge version (double output power) for driving less sensitive speakers. Focus right now is on the development of a novel DAPI (Digital Audio Parallel Interface) receiver for the PowerDAC and headphones PowerDAC. USB only DAPI receiver, proof of concept version, is already up and running. The USB / Toslink / Coax DAPI receiver is under development." Matt Nice news! Link to comment
numlog Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 So there is 2 versions now? one for headphones and one for speakers, plus a possible bridged version? or is 'PowerDAC' now referring to the bridged version and 'headphone PowerDAC' is the first version that should also drive high sens speakers? I assume it has to a new version because while bridging would help with voltage output the output impedance would double, and its already very high at 1.2 ohm for speakers. Link to comment
matthias Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 1 hour ago, numlog said: So there is 2 versions now? one for headphones and one for speakers, plus a possible bridged version? This is my understanding as well. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Though this consideration may be a little premature, I wonder how I would manage my analog source with the PowerDAC. Keep a seperate amplifier? Use an ADC? I assume someone with a high end vinyl rig (not my case) may prefer keeping an analog signal. Link to comment
matthias Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 13 minutes ago, hopkins said: Though this consideration may be a little premature, I wonder how I would manage my analog source with the PowerDAC. Keep a seperate amplifier? Use an ADC? I assume someone with a high end vinyl rig (not my case) may prefer keeping an analog signal. I think it would be the best to keep either a pure analog or a pure digital pathway. Matt Ben75 1 "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
seeteeyou Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 Just wondering if there were any similarities between John's and Rob's approaches? https://www.the-ear.net/show-reports/high-end-2018-pt1 Quote It has five times the processing power of its predecessor and more advanced noise shaping, it also produces 18 watts from its balanced outputs. This because it’s based on Chord’s new Power Pulse Array tech that generates plenty of grunt. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-491#post-13216184 Quote The benefits of the power amp technology are that they are like Dave's output stage - one single feedback path from digital data to analogue outputs that will drive loudspeakers. The first model will be 20W, then multiple output powers to suit. The key to a single analogue stage is transparency - we only have 4 passive components in the direct signal path, one global feedback loop, and exceptionally low distortion, as the amp structure is a third order analogue noise shaper. The output stage is non-switching so timing recovery is set by the DAC. The early prototypes gave extraordinary depth and detail resolution, due to the simple analogue section. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hugo-tt-2-by-chord-electronics-the-official-thread.879425/page-9#post-14234876 Quote Yes the last 9 months has been very busy, with the TT2 and power pulse array - the DX amp. Initially TT2 had a beefed up Hugo 2 OP stage. And the DX amp had a much more complex OP stage - but this turned out to be not suitable. So this got redesigned, and I got the performance I needed - but then I realised I could update TT2 with this new OP stage, so it got added into the next TT 2 prototype. This increased the short circuit current delivery by 10 times, without sacrificing speed or propagation delay. The speed is crucial, as the 2nd order analogue noise shaper OP stage absolutely requires very fast switching speed, (of order of 30 nS) for phase margin and stability reasons. Link to comment
numlog Posted October 27, 2020 Share Posted October 27, 2020 56 minutes ago, seeteeyou said: Just wondering if there were any similarities between John's and Rob's approaches? https://www.the-ear.net/show-reports/high-end-2018-pt1 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-dave.766517/page-491#post-13216184 https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hugo-tt-2-by-chord-electronics-the-official-thread.879425/page-9#post-14234876 1 global feedback path is already way down the ladder compared to the powerDAC, the only advantage they are claiming is short signal path but.... 4 passive components, fine, but how many active ones?? With a global feedback loop there must be quite a few. Could even be op amps. They probably could have implemented a simpler power output stage with only local feedback but were chasing super specs , they lose the objective market if the specs arent great. It probably sounds great, and probably has an overall simpler/efficient signal path compared to standard DAC>amp chain, but PowerDAC is well beyond that as a true 'power DAC' P.S that is in concept. Chord is the ''safe'' approach - it very likely it will be good but may not be particularly special. ECDesigns have taken a much more ambitious approach... We have yet to see if the powerDAC can actually deliver. Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 I don't know at what level of detail John has explained the PowerDAC concept over at DIYAudio but it would be interesting to know if other manufacturers/audio engineers are paying attention to his developments. The FractalDAC has not generated that much interest, outside of our small fan club here, which is a shame. There is not a single professional review of their products outside of the hifi-advice review of the Mosaic UV dating back a few years. Obviously, the ever changing product line has not helped, nor has the recent EU-only shipping policy. One would think some people in the audio business would still be curious to find out more, but it seems most are content peddling lesser (and often more expensive) brands, as a result of having editorial policies largely driven by advertising revenue. There's really not that much innovation in audio today, with a lot of products offering pretty much the same features/quality. The PowerDAC will have a unique design, as can be seen in the pictures shared here. That may not appeal to everyone. But it does look very promising. The use of multiple inputs (USB, Toslink, SPDIF) should satisfy most needs, and this DAPI interface he mentions is most probably an improvement on the current DAC interfaces. I am curious to listen to it, but also to see how this will all be recieved throughout the audio community. Link to comment
seeteeyou Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 If John were interested, maybe he could send a review unit (i.e. the triple stack) to John Darko in Berlin? https://eisa.eu/members/darko-audio/ https://de.linkedin.com/in/john-darko-ab8869bb Personally I really like his review here since I'm also a fan of piCorePlayer myself A short film about the Raspberry Pi as music streamer AND server https://darko.audio/2020/07/a-short-film-about-the-raspberry-pi-as-music-streamer-and-server/ 5 more thoughts on the Pi-Squeeze server/streamer https://darko.audio/2020/07/5-more-thoughts-on-the-squeeze-pi-server-streamer/ Sometimes it's quite a challenge for less-known products to gain more exposure, it's all about the power of marketing these days but that wouldn't do any good for the affordability aspect IMHO. BTW, I've been trying to find anyone who's happy to provide some feedback (in English) for the following version of piCorePlayer that's specifically optimized for Raspberry Pi 4 http://www.stsd99.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=19160#p19160 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/sam0402/pcp-44.1KHz/master/pcp610-44_48KHz-xeno.zip https://raw.githubusercontent.com/sam0402/pcp-44.1KHz/master/pcp610-44_48KHz-xeno.z01 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/sam0402/pcp-44.1KHz/master/pcp610-44_48KHz-xeno.z02 https://raw.githubusercontent.com/sam0402/pcp-44.1KHz/master/pcp610-44_48KHz-xeno.z03 So far everyone in Japan / Taiwan who installed that totally loved the sound of their RPi4, even a vinyl-only guy took the plunge right away after visiting another fellow doctor's home in Japan https://www.my-hiend.com/vbb/showthread.php?13157-piCorePlayer6-1-0-Xenomai-44-1-48KHz雙機入門簡易安裝教學&p=242868#post242868 Even though it's totally free to give piCorePlayer a try with no strings attached, it still takes time and (minimal) effort to get everything up and running. And then maybe it's even more difficult to get the ball rolling when we're talking about a combo that would cost roughly €1,000? Here's yet another example, the entire thread was filled with praises without any complaints whatsoever https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/duelund-conversion-to-diy-helix-geometry-cabling For those of us who have the skills to build something on our own, a cable like this might also work pretty darn well https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/duelund-conversion-to-diy-helix-geometry-cabling/post?postid=2042201#2042201 Quote USB cables made using Helix design principles are simply outstanding. Link to comment
realDHT Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 9 hours ago, hopkins said: The FractalDAC has not generated that much interest, outside of our small fan club here, which is a shame. There is not a single professional review of their products outside of the hifi-advice review of the Mosaic UV dating back a few years. Obviously, the ever changing product line has not helped, nor has the recent EU-only shipping policy. One would think some people in the audio business would still be curious to find out more, but it seems most are content peddling lesser (and often more expensive) brands, as a result of having editorial policies largely driven by advertising revenue. There's really not that much innovation in audio today, with a lot of products offering pretty much the same features/quality. Very true, but I am not sure if EC Designs actually wants a lot of attention and reviews etc. I remember reading from the reviewer in one of those rare reviews published, that ECD were not that interested to provide the new products for review , although the reviewer asked for it (and the reviewer was very positive in the review). The units look completely hand made, the soldering and everything, at least the ones I have. So with a much larger exposure and customer group, production would have to be automated/outsourced, so would change the company more than they might want. I guess this would also enforce longer product cycles, which could be a better or worse for customers depending on your viewpoint. Ben75 1 Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, realDHT said: Very true, but I am not sure if EC Designs actually wants a lot of attention and reviews etc. I remember reading from the reviewer in one of those rare reviews published, that ECD were not that interested to provide the new products for review , although the reviewer asked for it (and the reviewer was very positive in the review). The units look completely hand made, the soldering and everything, at least the ones I have. So with a much larger exposure and customer group, production would have to be automated/outsourced, so would change the company more than they might want. I guess this would also enforce longer product cycles, which could be a better or worse for customers depending on your viewpoint. They actually were interested in getting professional reviews, but I think there were some issues in that case with a prototype version being passed on to a reviewer when it should not have. Some product versions were indeed assembled/modified manually, but John always provides professionally build and tested PCBs on his final product versions. John is indeed a perfectionist, and we will certainly see more stable products once they are satisfied with what they have (in terms of SQ). Link to comment
nattflax Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 How many reviewers are there out there which has some credibility and does dac reviews? The only one I can think of is Zero Fidelity, but to the best of my knowledge Shaun does not take on dacs for review. Z reviews maybe, but he has put out some glorified reviews on products that were ok. In his defence he usually does not review expensive (but good) products. However, a question mark where he's putting his mouth, because he makes reviews for a living. He has also expressed numerous times that he think it is hard to hear differences in dacs. John Darko has said that his channel should be regarded as entertainment. He likes to hear differences in expensive usb-cables too. Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, nattflax said: ... He has also expressed numerous times that he think it is hard to hear differences in dacs.... Then he is a good candidate for a future PowerDAC review :) Link to comment
Popular Post realDHT Posted October 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 28, 2020 3 hours ago, hopkins said: They actually were interested in getting professional reviews, but I think there were some issues in that case with a prototype version being passed on to a reviewer when it should not have. Aha, then we are doing a contribution by keeping this discussion thread alive and kicking. I had never heard about EC Designs before seing this thread some months ago, and now I am a dedicated fan 😄 nattflax and Qhwoeprktiyns 2 Link to comment
nattflax Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 2 hours ago, hopkins said: Then he is a good candidate for a future PowerDAC review :) Absolutely, Z reviews is not bad. I have discovered a couple of gems watching his channel. Given that the future price of the PowerDac fits the scope of Z reviews' channel. Link to comment
Allan F Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 7 hours ago, nattflax said: John Darko has said that his channel should be regarded as entertainment. He likes to hear differences in expensive usb-cables too. That's only because there are differences in USB cables to be heard. "Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron Link to comment
matthias Posted October 28, 2020 Share Posted October 28, 2020 4 hours ago, nattflax said: Z reviews is not bad. Bad enough that these are video reviews. Matt Ben75 1 "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
Popular Post realDHT Posted October 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 28, 2020 I was going to try external clean power to my U192 and compare the difference to using the default usb bus power. Also moving the same 5V PSU between the U192 and the DA96 to get an impression which unit would benefit the most. My experiment ended up badly straight away, since I accidentally took the wrong cable from my multirail LPSU and put in 9V instead of the correct 5V. I realized this when the U192 died some minute later :( It turned out the internal regulators on the circuit board were fried, but luckily (or probably due to good design) no other parts. The good part of the story is that I managed to resurrect the U192 removing the fried components and replacing them with external regulators I had. So now I have stationary external power to the U192 and it sounds very good :) However it is not pretty or practical and I will have to redo it to a nicer more permanent solution. So I could not do the A/B comparison i Intended, but I do think it sounds even better now than it did with the computer bus power. WIth this new setup I did do a new A/B comparison for the DA96 PSU between stock PSU and a Salas shuntregulated supply. Now I did not think the difference was that big, a little more relaxed and smoother sound with the shuntregulation, but not a big difference. Ben75 and Qhwoeprktiyns 2 Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now