ECdesigns

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

No opinions on that one as I did not purchase it. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I had another set of ears come and listen to my system. He often auditions systems and has a good ears... My friend was extremely impressed by the UPL+MOS DAC "combo":  the pitch black background, the level of detail, the completely natural and realistic delivery ("analog" like, to quote him).

 

He summed up the listening session by saying that this was a revelation and an "intense musical experience". 

 

I hope others will get a chance to listen to the UPL player along with the DAC as it really sets a new standard, in my opinion, for digital playback. 

[beautiful music]

@hopkins Can you post some photos clarifying the physical connection between devices and showing how you can power a DAC?

 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Here is a picture of the UPL and the DAC, front and back. The UPL is being charged, so a USB cable (with a phone charger) is connected to it. The USB cable can be left on when the device is turned on - the USB power is blocked from entering the device as soon as it is turned on. The DAC is powered exactly the same way, by simply plugging in a USB cable.

 

There is a toslink cable going from the UPL to the DAC. That is all there is to it...

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Before you ask, the DAC can play over 100 hours before being recharged (I recharged mine a few weeks after I got it). As for the UPL it probably depends on the USB key you use. The higher the capacity, the more current it drains. I recharged mine after a week, but will have to see further on how often I need to recharge it.

 

The display starts to dim to indicate that the unit needs to be recharged. I left them to recharge overnight. 

 

To summarize, the use of batteries is not a problem given how little power the two units consume. 

 

Concerning the use of USB keys, it is actually quite simple to navigate through files using the remote control, in spite of the absence of any text on the display (only numbers). One button lets you move from folder to folder (numbered 01 to 99), and another through the tracks within each folder (with the display showing the folder and track number so 01.01 to 01.99). The display also shows the number of each USB key, which is defined in a text file of its root folder. Scrolling through the folders is quite fast, so putting a large number of folders (max 99) is not an issue. 

 

You obviously need some kind of cheat sheet to remind you of what is on which usb key. So far, I have just been using screen copies of the folders of each usb key, stored on a network drive.

 

I intend on using MP3Tag to generate (through the export functions) an html file with the content of each usb key, and setting up a web server on one of my computers to be able to access the web pages using my tablet. I will put a sticker on each usb key with its number. 

 

All my collection is currently in FLAC. I will see whether I create a copy of my albums in wav format on a separate drive. For the time being I convert them using a batch converter when I want to copy folders to the USB keys. 

 

It is a little bit of work but it is worth it! 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Some more thoughts... Since the MOS DAC only has one Toslink input, how do you listen to other sources ? I use LMS, for example, for my music collection and Spotify, you may use Roon + Tidal, etc... 

 

You can obviously keep another player with either a USB out (and use a USB to Toslink converter -  ECDesign make the UTOS, for example), or a Toslink out, and unplug the cable going from the DAC to the UPL when you want to use that second player. Toslink receivers have a limited "mechanical" lifespan, and I personally do not want to spend my time plugging and unplugging cables. Another option is to use a Toslink switch, but I believe they may degrade the sound quality (and it is an extra device that you need to install and power). 

 

I would recommend just getting a seperate analog source (i.e. a streamer with a DAC) and plugging that in directly to your preamp - if it has multiple inputs.  

 

I do not need to listen to a "high quality" source all the time. So I alternate between the UPL/MOS Dac when I am focused on listening to music (essentially at night), and either a Chromecast or Squeezebox plugged in to my Preamp when I just want background music. I have a spotify account and either one works fine with that. 

 

I wish ECDesigns had made their DAC with two Toslink inputs and a switch, but that may be for a future version ! On the other hand, limiting the use of the UPL/MOS to specific listening sessions saves on battery !

 

I cannot stress strongly enough the quality of the MOS/UPL "combo". I think anyone involved in digital playback should get a chance to listen to it, and see what music sounds like without any (or very little)  interference from the source or DAC. It is quite a revelation.

 

But you do not need the "best" all the time... things are in a way much simpler having a basic "network" streamer on one hand and these two units on the other, which are trouble free: no power supply, no network, no software to tinker with, etc.. they are reliable, work all the time, and provide probably on of the best digital playback you can afford (because they are indeed "affordable").

 

For the record, I have no link whatsoever with ECDesigns, just a very satistfied customer, eager to spread the word...

[Ralf11]

Thx for your reports. 

 

I expect that this initial foray will be followed by versions with improved functionality, if they meet with consumer success...

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Until someone is able to bridge the gap with network streaming I will hold on dearly to my music collection, and am glad I have been continuing investing in it (buying CDs)... 

[Norton]

22 hours ago, hopkins said:

For the record, I have no link whatsoever with ECDesigns, just a very satistfied customer, eager to spread the word...

 

Thanks for the updates, expectation bias now in full flow for  when I receive mine after holidays in new year! 

 

 

[beautiful music]

@hopkins may I know what is the DAC did you have before EC design?

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I had the ECDesigns Mosaic UV (still have it in fact). Before that, I have had a number of DACs over the years.

 

It will be interesting to test the UPL drive with another DAC that has Toslink input, to check whether the "magic" comes essentially from the UPL, or whether it is from the combination of the UPL and MOS DAC. 

[beautiful music]

46 minutes ago, hopkins said:

I had the ECDesigns Mosaic UV (still have it in fact). Before that, I have had a number of DACs over the years.

 

It will be interesting to test the UPL drive with another DAC that has Toslink input, to check whether the "magic" comes essentially from the UPL, or whether it is from the combination of the UPL and MOS DAC. 

That's a good point.

 

Curious to know the other DAC's that you owned from other brands.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

2 hours ago, beautiful music said:

That's a good point.

 

Curious to know the other DAC's that you owned from other brands.

 

A lot over the past 15 years, not all of which I can remember (not in any order): Ayre QB9, Calyx Femto, Dangerous Music Source, a few Wadia (Wadia 25 and others), Mytek 192, Bel Canto, etc...

 

What is your point ?

[beautiful music]

On 12/30/2018 at 1:06 AM, hopkins said:

 

A lot over the past 15 years, not all of which I can remember (not in any order): Ayre QB9, Calyx Femto, Dangerous Music Source, a few Wadia (Wadia 25 and others), Mytek 192, Bel Canto, etc...

 

What is your point ?

Thanks @hopkins just curious to know your previous DAC's model that you eventually praises the EC Design.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I understand - I do think the UPL is really doing most of the work here, so it is not only a question of DACs.

 

I am sorry there are not more people using it as I am curious myself to see what others think (hopefully Norton will get his soon and let us know).

[n-a]

Hi all,

 

I can confirm that the EcDesigns Mos16 is exceptionally natural sounding dac. However it needs good source and amplification. I tried it first with basic sources and it was not that good. Cd transport + Ifi spdif purifier did the trick. Now I think it is the best dac that I have had and maybe even better than the Theta Gen V-a that I had. Not so dynamic sounding but very natural. I like it it very much. Doesn`t get me stressed when listening to music  It is interesting that there is so many "ways" to build good sounding dac, one weights a "ton" and another is light as feather but both sounds good.

[M_audio]

6 hours ago, n-a said:

Hi all,

 

I can confirm that the EcDesigns Mos16 is exceptionally natural sounding dac. However it needs good source and amplification. I tried it first with basic sources and it was not that good. Cd transport + Ifi spdif purifier did the trick. Now I think it is the best dac that I have had and maybe even better than the Theta Gen V-a that I had. Not so dynamic sounding but very natural. I like it it very much. Doesn`t get me stressed when listening to music  It is interesting that there is so many "ways" to build good sounding dac, one weights a "ton" and another is light as feather but both sounds good.

This is similar to Mosaic T16. I use W4S RUR for regenerating the signal before it goes into EC Designs own TOSLINK converter. I am even thinking about Intona before the RUR to decouple computer from the RUR. I guess what you need is something like Mutec to convert USB into a good optical signal. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

15 hours ago, n-a said:

Hi all,

 

I can confirm that the EcDesigns Mos16 is exceptionally natural sounding dac. However it needs good source and amplification. I tried it first with basic sources and it was not that good. Cd transport + Ifi spdif purifier did the trick. Now I think it is the best dac that I have had and maybe even better than the Theta Gen V-a that I had. Not so dynamic sounding but very natural. I like it it very much. Doesn`t get me stressed when listening to music  It is interesting that there is so many "ways" to build good sounding dac, one weights a "ton" and another is light as feather but both sounds good.

 

Concerning the "not so dynamic" aspect with lesser quality sources this is exactly my experience, briefly using a Chromecast, for example. I guess the MOS is very revealing of the source (contrary to what I naively expected you cannot turn a bad source into something good). 

 

I do not have a good explanation for this. With a good source (I use the UPL) it is as if there was complete "transparency" and the music is just there for you to explore and immerse yourself in. There is absolutely no harshness and it is completely relaxing. I can listen to it all day and night.. it is a little surprising at first, but soon very addictive!

[Norton]

On 12/31/2018 at 7:39 PM, hopkins said:

hopefully Norton will get his soon and let us know

 

I’ve had the MOS16/UPL16 combo for a few days now.  These are my subjective impressions listening in my home system so far, YMMV.

 

Firstly, comms and customer service were prompt and professional. John answered questions quickly and in some detail, smooth ordering system with email updates on order, despatch and delivery (I asked to delay delivery as away on holiday).

 

Units are quirky alloy and Perspex, low and v light but not tiny (> half width) and  seem well built.  The remote for the UPL is much larger then I expected, quite a substantial alloy block that might grace something at 10 times the price, albeit with an unusual pair  of multi function pads rather  than individual keys. 

 

Unpacked and running in a few minutes, as someone used to ESS /AKM chip-based DACs, the EC designs combo immediately sounded  different;  “delicate” was the word that came to mind, in the sense of being refined rather than fragile.  This is definitely a combo that requires a period of acclimatisation if like me you're used  to more conventional DACs.  There’s also no getting away from the fact that the UPL in particular is a “hair shirt” product - 16 bit WAV-only navigated via numbered folders and files.

 

After around 10 hrs  listening my initial impressions echo some of the observations in previous posts -  this is a refined, unfatiguing sound.  Resolution of low level detail is first class, subtle low level drum beats for example are readily identifiable.  At the other extreme, despite what I might have  antipated from a battery design, there is plenty of power and scale here, dramatic drum and brass crescendos are delivered with appropriate “welly”  but in a noticeably taught, unbloated manner.  To my ears, solo vocal parts also seem particularly well-rendered.

 

Compared to my regular DAC (Resonessence Mirus Signature Pro), there is some perception of attenuated dynamics and of a somewhat smaller sound stage being  cast, particularly in height, but then the Resonessence is a radically different DAC that retails for getting on for 10xs the price of the EC Designs combo.  

 

In summary, my first  impressions are that these are fine products in their own right and not just great for the money.  I have to confess that I’m something of a sucker for quirky, single minded products  anyway, but it’s clear that EC designs have put a  great deal of thought into  multiple factors (RBCD focus, NOS, Tolink, battery power, local storage) in coming up with a  different approach  to the digital audio mainstream.  But the key thing is that it’s quirkiness that pays off SQ-wise and at distinctly “everyman” prices.

 

I have the UTOS converter and will try out  the units separately at some point.

 

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Thanks for your feedback. Glad you like it ! Let us know after some time if your impressions changed. It took me a few days to get accustomed to it.

 

P.S. concerning the "dynamics", I have found out that I can play the MOS/UPL at a louder volume than I was used to, due to the lack of any "harshness" in the sound (especially the higher frequencies). The blacker background, better extension of the notes, makes it all extremely involving and "life like".

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

@Norton

Could you try the UPL with the Toslink input of your Resonessence DAC ? I am curious to know whether the "magic" comes from the UPL, or the UPL+MOS combination. Thanks

[M_audio]

21 hours ago, hopkins said:

@Norton

Could you try the UPL with the Toslink input of your Resonessence DAC ? I am curious to know whether the "magic" comes from the UPL, or the UPL+MOS combination. Thanks

The magic is obviously the DAC. I hear it everyday in the form of (very similar) Mosaic T.
The UPL is "just" the sugar on the top.

The Sabre-Resonessence is completely different design and vibe. 

[Norton]

21 hours ago, hopkins said:

@Norton

Could you try the UPL with the Toslink input of your Resonessence DAC ? I am curious to know whether the "magic" comes from the UPL, or the UPL+MOS combination. Thanks

 

I may get around to that in time, but at the moment I’m just enjoying listening to the UPL/MOS combo, truly  outstanding.  Next  priority will  be trying the MOS with my Bryston BDP via UTOS so that should give a good idea of the DAC’s role in this (i.e is it just as good without UPL?)  I suspect both the UPL and MOS are bringing something significant: detail retrieval from the low noise floor of the UPL, refinement and unfatiguing sound from the MOS.

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Yes the UPL+MOS is quite unique. I have basically given up on listening to anything else and have ordered lots of USB keys

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

1 hour ago, M_audio said:

The magic is obviously the DAC. I hear it everyday in the form of (very similar) Mosaic T.
The UPL is "just" the sugar on the top.

The Sabre-Resonessence is completely different design and vibe. 

 

We will find out when more trials are done. I do not have a good source outside the UPL, and I do not intend on investing in one. If I bring it over to compare at others' homes I will report back.