ECdesigns

[matthias]

2 hours ago, hopkins said:

The Khadas DAC is interesting - it has a very seductive presentation, with no obvious faults other than some lack of transparency. 

 

Please consider that the ECD combo is ten times as much as the Khadas. 🙂

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

5 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Please consider that the ECD combo is the ten times as much as the Khadas. 🙂

 

Matt

 

Yes, i realize that. My comment was to be taken as a compliment

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

And it is very small, so was easy to take with me! Another friend modded it, in fact, to bypass the usb power supply, but we just used it powered by usb. The objective was not to evaluate the Khadas.

[matthias]

8 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Yes, i realize that. My comment was to be taken as a compliment

 

For serious listening I do warm up the Khadas with a 5V powerbank before connecting the MBP.

I think it has a sweet spot for playback of saxophones which I love.

Sorry for being OT. 🙂

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

3 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

For serious listening I do warm up the Khadas with a 5V powerbank before connecting the MBP.

I think it has a sweet spot for playback of saxophones which I love.

 

Matt

 

Then you will also love the ECD DAC. We briefly listened to "Yeah!" by Charlie Rouse. Acoustic instruments, and saxophone or trumpet for example, really shine. They sound dull in many systems. 

[matthias]

19 minutes ago, matthias said:

For serious listening I do warm up the Khadas with a 5V powerbank before connecting the MBP.

 

That might be useful for listening tests with the U192 as well.

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

10 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

That might be useful for listening tests with the U192 as well.

 

Matt

 

Probably. The first trials were done without any warmup. It improved after, but we can't say whether it was the warmup, or something else. We should have taken more time. 

[Huubster]

36 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Probably. The first trials were done without any warmup. It improved after, but we can't say whether it was the warmup, or something else. We should have taken more time. 

 

My gutfeeling tells me that it's more the power supply then the U192 which needs the warm-up time. 

 

When I switch on my setup it sounds optimal within 15 minutes. But after moving the set to a friend I had the same and it took more time. At home the power supply stays 'on' all the time but will only deliver when the DAC asks for it. 

[Ben75]

18 hours ago, hopkins said:

I had a listening session this afternoon at @Ben75. Another friend, who has "good ears", was present. Ben has some very nice, large, DIY speakers, that work surprisingly well in his small room. He has a JOB Int amp, which has analog inputs, but these inputs go through the JOB's DAC. So I bought along my Lavardin IS-X integrated amplifier, along with the ECD "stack" (DAC + UPL + U192). I also bought the Khadas Tone Board DAC, to use a starting point in our comparisons.

 

The Khadas DAC is interesting - it has a very seductive presentation, with no obvious faults other than some lack of transparency. 

 

We then played the U192+Fractal DAC, using several sources: his desktop PC, my chromebook (using Linux), and my tablet (using USB Audio Pro). None of them gave satisfying sound - in fact it was quite a disappointment. Worse than the Khadas ! 

 

We switched to the UPL and everything sounded "right" again, producing the sound that we were used to from the UPL: very transparent, yet "smooth" and highly realistic ("vinyl like" according to my friend).

 

We then proceeded to unplug a number of devices that were connected to the same power outlet: an SMPS, his large TV used as a computer screen, etc.. I had bought along my small AM radio to identify "noisy" gear, and it was interesting for everyone to witness the amount of noise produced by these devices. 

 

We played music again with the U192, using first his PC as a source. The sound was definitely more in line with my own experience at home, and did not have the obvious faults of the previous run. We switched to his Windows laptop computer, and it was a little better. We finally  used his girlfriend's MacBook Air (battery powered - using foobar but without the WASAPI plugin - probably bit-perfect on OSX, but could not confirm), and that resulted in a very satisfying sound quality, probably close to the UPL, though we ran out of time and did not get a chance to compare it to the UPL again. Of the three (desktop PC, windows laptop, Macbook), the Macbook is certainly the lowest-noise device.

 

Perhaps in the first tests the U192 had not "warmed up" yet, or perhaps the surrounding high noise devices created some interferences that the UPL (which does not receive music data from the "control" computer) was less sensitive to ?

 

It was fun to try all this, and impressive to see how good music can sound playing from a "plain vanilla" MacBook (without any audiophile tweaks or audiophile gadgets attached). Thanks Ben for your hospitality (and excellent home made apple pie) !

 

I am not done with my tests at home, but very happy with the SQ - I think I can take it a little step further - to be continued...

It was a pleasing moment to see you at home Stéphane! Michel, the other friend of us, is excellent and very objectif/neutral when speaking of the "rightness" of the sound.

 

For me, the UPL has this ability to get a detailed and very realistic reporduction of instruments/voices etc. but it has also this ability to play without any stress, without any confusions of the different sounds.. Each sound "play its own life", they are more than entied : they produce their own energy, in perfect coherence with the other source of sounds.

 

MacBook Air is a great player with quasi no noise.

 

Next step will be to try this solutions with a audiophile software etc. To be continued..

 

Thank you again Hopkins for this great moment ! 🙂

[matthias]

23 minutes ago, Ben75 said:

It was a pleasing moment to see you at home Stéphane! Michel, the other friend of us, is excellent and very objectif/neutral when speaking of the "rightness" of the sound.

 

For me, the UPL has this ability to get a detailed and very realistic reporduction of instruments/voices etc. but it has also this ability to play without any stress, without any confusions of the different sounds.. Each sound "play its own life", they are more than entied : they produce their own energy, in perfect coherence with the other source of sounds.

 

MacBook Air is a great player with quasi no noise.

 

Next step will be to try this solutions with a audiophile software etc. To be continued..

 

Thank you again Hopkins for this great moment ! 🙂

 

Hi Ben,

 

would be very nice if you can try Audirvana with the Macbook and the ECD combo.

 

Thank you

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

8 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Hi Ben,

 

would be very nice if you can try Audirvana with the Macbook and the ECD combo.

 

Thank you

 

Matt

 

Ben does not have the ECD combo, and I don't have a Mac. Audirvana works on Windows as well, but I'm not sure I'll have the courage of installing windows again on my NUC to try it...

[matthias]

3 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Ben does not have the ECD combo, and I don't have a Mac. Audirvana works on Windows as well, but I'm not sure I'll have the courage of installing windows again on my NUC to try it...

 

Maybe Ben would like to try MB/Audirvana as source in your set-up?

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

41 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Maybe Ben would like to try MB/Audirvana as source in your set-up?

 

Matt

 

Sure, next time. 

[tapatrick]

I have tried Audirvana on a Macbook pro (on batteries) playing Tidal compared to my usual set up of Antipodes DXe playing Tidal through Roon. Both are perfect and I would be very happy with either. If I did not have the Antipodes I would use either Roon/Tidal or Audirvana/Tidal and call it a day.

 

This confirms my previous findings that I am losing interest in trying out different sources and further tweaking. I'm convinced the U192>ElectroTos>Fractal DAC (with clean power on both U192 and DAC plus an extra layer of Aluminium casing and heavy weights on each unit) is a game changing set of components. The enjoyment of music is what I am called back to not further tweaking and I am seeking out interesting recordings which I always did before - now this has taken over completely. At present I am working my way through Paul McGowan (of PS Audio) playlist 'Pauls Pick' on Tidal.

[matthias]

5 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

I have tried Audirvana on a Macbook pro (on batteries) playing Tidal compared to my usual set up of Antipodes DXe playing Tidal through Roon. Both are perfect and I would be very happy with either. If I did not have the Antipodes I would use either Roon/Tidal or Audirvana/Tidal and call it a day.

 

This confirms my previous findings that I am losing interest in trying out different sources and further tweaking. I'm convinced the U192>ElectroTos>Fractal DAC (with clean power on both U192 and DAC plus an extra layer of Aluminium casing and heavy weights on each unit) is a game changing set of components. The enjoyment of music is what I am called back to not further tweaking and I am seeking out interesting recordings which I always did before - now this has taken over completely. At present I am working my way through Paul McGowan (of PS Audio) playlist 'Pauls Pick' on Tidal.

 

Thanks for sharing,

as you are located in the UK it should be easy to compare Qobuz to Tidal.

Would be interesting what the outcome is with the ECD combo.

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

32 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

I'm convinced the U192>ElectroTos>Fractal DAC (with clean power on both U192 and DAC plus an extra layer of Aluminium casing and heavy weights on each unit) is a game changing set of components.

 

Hi,  how is your aluminum casing implemented? 

[matthias]

10 hours ago, tapatrick said:

.......plus an extra layer of Aluminium casing and heavy weights on each unit) is a game changing set of components. 

 

Pictures, please 🙂

 

Matt

[tapatrick]

12 hours ago, matthias said:

as you are located in the UK it should be easy to compare Qobuz to Tidal.

Would be interesting what the outcome is with the ECD combo.

I have tried Qobuz on 2 different occasions and was not impressed by the streaming quality (too many dropouts) or the response of customer service. Tidal is robust and reliable. Qobuz has issues with recent reports of badly digitised high res files and isn't good at introducing you to new music which I love in Tidal. I personally don't know what all the fuss is about and claims of better SQ from Qobuz do not bear out in my experience.

 

On 7/25/2020 at 6:03 PM, matthias said:

I am waiting for some more impressions but they are on my shortlist.

Have you collected enough impressions yet Matt

[tapatrick]

12 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

Hi,  how is your aluminum casing implemented? 

I use aluminium sheets 5mm between shelves on my rack and for added isolation between power supplies and components etc. Temporarily I have one sheet below and one on top of the EC Combo, which I plan to make more permanent and pretty (when I have time!)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Steel-aluminium-stainless-plate-sheet-0-8mm-1mm-1-5mm-2mm-3mm-4mm-5mm-6mm/224051596208?

 

Then cheap heavy door stops on top of components for extra vibration control

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00R36MLVA

[tapatrick]

2 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Pictures, please 🙂

 

Matt

sorry it's not photogenic  but I have described above....

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

42 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

Have you collected enough impressions yet Matt

 

It is time he pulls the trigger

[Ben75]

13 hours ago, tapatrick said:

I have tried Audirvana on a Macbook pro (on batteries) playing Tidal compared to my usual set up of Antipodes DXe playing Tidal through Roon. Both are perfect and I would be very happy with either. If I did not have the Antipodes I would use either Roon/Tidal or Audirvana/Tidal and call it a day.

 

This confirms my previous findings that I am losing interest in trying out different sources and further tweaking. I'm convinced the U192>ElectroTos>Fractal DAC (with clean power on both U192 and DAC plus an extra layer of Aluminium casing and heavy weights on each unit) is a game changing set of components. The enjoyment of music is what I am called back to not further tweaking and I am seeking out interesting recordings which I always did before - now this has taken over completely. At present I am working my way through Paul McGowan (of PS Audio) playlist 'Pauls Pick' on Tidal.

Hello Tapatrick,

 

Do you expect to resell both of your Ps Audio DAC and Antipods?

 

Hello Matthias,
Next time we will try Audirvana (which I found expensive) and Swisian.. but Foobar2000 sounded almost as good as the UPL96. But it is still possible that the software play a role..

 

Are you going to give a try to EC Designs electronics? We shared with you enough information/reviews with you, isn’t it? 🙂

[matthias]

44 minutes ago, Ben75 said:

Hello Matthias,
Next time we will try Audirvana (which I found expensive) and Swisian.. but Foobar2000 sounded almost as good as the UPL96. But it is still possible that the software play a role..

 

Are you going to give a try to EC Designs electronics? We shared with you enough information/reviews with you, isn’t it? 🙂

 

Audirvana may be expensive in comparison to other players but it is cheap in comparison to Roon for example.

I has a nice UI when using it with streaming services like Qobuz and Tidal and sounds good to me.

 

I certainly will give the ECDs a try. 

I am waiting for release of a CD transport with USB output from another manufacturer. They do testing at the moment for compatibility with several USB inputs like the XMOS the ECD uses.

So I am not going to buy the ECD combo until there is clarification that both work together without issues.

I hope this helps, I appreciate all impressions so far 🙂

 

Matt

 

[tapatrick]

1 hour ago, Ben75 said:

Do you expect to resell both of your Ps Audio DAC and Antipods?🙂

No I will probably keep both. The Antipodes is a dedicated music server and allows for continuous software upgrades from the company. I wouldn't be happy using my macbook pro as music source as it has other uses as well. The PSAudio Junior is a very versatile and lovely sounding DAC with many inputs - also allows for free software updates which can be significant changes in SQ. If the EC DAC had more than 1 input I would reconsider.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

9 hours ago, tapatrick said:

I use aluminium sheets 5mm between shelves on my rack and for added isolation between power supplies and components etc. Temporarily I have one sheet below and one on top of the EC Combo, which I plan to make more permanent and pretty (when I have time!)

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Steel-aluminium-stainless-plate-sheet-0-8mm-1mm-1-5mm-2mm-3mm-4mm-5mm-6mm/224051596208?

 

Then cheap heavy door stops on top of components for extra vibration control

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00R36MLVA

 

I added also some aluminum plates under some of my equipmemt. Just ordered a couple of those door stoppers to try out. A friend of mine uses them and I was meaning to try them. 

 

I made a strange discovery this afternoon. I put my portable AM radio, above the back of the DAC, set at 198 khz, and it "recieved" the music I was playing at the time! I powered off my amplifier, and confirmed it comes from the DAC. Wrote to John Brown about it, to get his opinion (will see if he answers) Perhaps this is normal, I did not try with other DACs.

 

I managed to get really good sound out of my Raspberrypi 4, with wifi and a linear power supply, but more about this later - I need some time to confirm.

 

Getting noise at a minimum in that 20Mhz bandwidth is really not obvious, as there is no way of knowing what source will produce the best results. You simply cannot find any measurements for this, from manufactures (computers or other related source components). 

 

I looked up an article by Archimago that I remembered reading a while ago, in which there were measurements of USB "noise" out of various laptops: http://archimago.blogspot.com/2018/05/measurements-computer-usb-5v-power.html?m=1

 

Interestingly, a Macbook did not perform that well in those tests, but  they were measuring power line noise only. Still interesting to see the variability in measurements. 

 

The conclusion was that the noise is below audibility, but we know that this is not the way to look at this...