tapatrick Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, bodiebill said: Paul Hynes SR4 19V => HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter => Supermicro X11SAE-M mobo with Intel Core i3-6100T and 2x Apacer D31.23185S.001 4GB ECC DDR4 2666MHz => Elfidelity AXF-100 usb cleaner board (powered with 5V by the mobo) => Lush^1 => ISO Regen (powered by iPower 9V => LDOVR DXP-1A5DSC 7.1V) => Lush^2 => U192ETF. As the U192 is only powered by the USB voltage, as mentioned something has to be up with the IsoRegen. Do you have multimetre to test what voltage it is outputting? Is the LDVOR powering the IsoRegen? or the USB 5V? Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. Link to comment
bodiebill Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 25 minutes ago, hopkins said: When you get the U192 back, I would be curious to know if you hear any difference with the NUC powered by the Paul Hynes. Will certainly try and report back. The NUC also takes 19VDC. audio system Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, bodiebill said: Will certainly try and report back. The NUC also takes 19VDC. What software do you normally use for playback? Link to comment
bodiebill Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 7 minutes ago, tapatrick said: As the U192 is only powered by the USB voltage, as mentioned something has to be up with the IsoRegen. Do you have multimetre to test what voltage it is outputting? Is the LDVOR powering the IsoRegen? or the USB 5V? The ISO Regen was powered with iPower 9V => LDVOR 7.1V. I already sold it a few days ago before suspecting anything wrong with it, also because it always worked fine with the Terminator. This was after the first incident due to unplugging the SDTrans384. Of course, if the buyer appears to have a problem with the ISO Regen, I will refund him. tapatrick 1 audio system Link to comment
bodiebill Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 4 minutes ago, hopkins said: What software do you normally use for playback? Mostly wtfplay with the console version of the Russian Album Player embedded. The latter does a great job unpacking my wv-DSD files on the fly and converting them to anything I like. Alternatively GentooPlayer as UPnP endpoint with mpd/upmpdcli. But I guess I will also try foobar as you liked it so much. Did you run it under Windows? audio system Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 minute ago, bodiebill said: Mostly wtfplay with the console version of the Russian Album Player embedded. The latter does a great job unpacking my wv-DSD files on the fly and converting them to anything I like. Or GentooPlayer as UPnP endpoint. But I guess I will also try foobar as you liked it so much. Did you run it under Windows? Yes, but to be honest, I am really unsure of anything I have tested so far. The only thing I am sure of is that LMS on Windows is not great, but that's about it 😞 I'll report back in a few days... Link to comment
bodiebill Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 21 minutes ago, hopkins said: Yes, but to be honest, I am really unsure of anything I have tested so far. The only thing I am sure of is that LMS on Windows is not great, but that's about it 😞 I'll report back in a few days... OK, take your time. Due to the 'SQ convergence' thing we are experiencing thanks to the ECD gear, we need a high level of sensitivity + intuition, helped by unhurried listening. At this level the music becomes a holistic experience rather than a quick swipe to the left or right. 🙂 audio system Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 1 hour ago, bodiebill said: OK, take your time. Due to the 'SQ convergence' thing we are experiencing thanks to the ECD gear, we need a high level of sensitivity + intuition, helped by unhurried listening 🙂 Yes, and even vis a vis Windows, I am really curious to check ECD's new bit-perfect tool to find out what the results are over a minute-long test. tapatrick 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted August 5, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 5, 2020 3 hours ago, hopkins said: Could be a defect in the ISO Regen. Or maybe you "burned" something in the ISO Regen, and it is outputting 6v or more. Really not possible based on the design. Thousands of USB REGENs and ISO REGENs in the field, and while other types of failures are possible, we have NEVER had a unit put out higher than expected VBUS. If the 1A regulator we dedicate to 5VBUS somehow fails, it won’t pass any voltage. tapatrick and Qhwoeprktiyns 2 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
tapatrick Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 2 hours ago, bodiebill said: The ISO Regen was powered with iPower 9V => LDVOR 7.1V. I already sold it a few days ago before suspecting anything wrong with it, also because it always worked fine with the Terminator. This was after the first incident due to unplugging the SDTrans384. Of course, if the buyer appears to have a problem with the ISO Regen, I will refund him. It's a puzzling scenario - maybe @Superdad can comment if it's possible for the Iso Regen to output more than 6V that caused the Bus Powered U192 to blow its regs. Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. Link to comment
tapatrick Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 Just now, tapatrick said: It's a puzzling scenario - maybe @Superdad can comment if it's possible for the Iso Regen to output more than 6V that caused the Bus Powered U192 to blow its regs. Ha, see he has already responded... :)!! Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. Link to comment
bodiebill Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 It remains a bit of a mystery to me. The second time around the U192's print board was damaged and now needs to be replaced (at a cost). It is disconcerting that the root cause is not yet known. I will take no risk when I get it back, and just connect the new NUC as is, only powered by the SR4 with 19V. Ben75 1 audio system Link to comment
tapatrick Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 2 hours ago, bodiebill said: It is disconcerting that the root cause is not yet known. I will take no risk when I get it back, and just connect the new NUC as is, only powered by the SR4 with 19V. Very strange - I would check your USB cable just in case it has a short, unlikely but if it has the NUC will not make difference. Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. Link to comment
bodiebill Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 17 minutes ago, tapatrick said: Very strange - I would check your USB cable just in case it has a short, unlikely but if it has the NUC will not make difference. thanks, will do, it is a Lush. audio system Link to comment
bodiebill Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 This is how I checked the Lush cable: https://photos.app.goo.gl/5TtCQ92fctQfgrS49 There were no shorts. And I also know that the ISO Regen was not the culprit. In the consternation I forgot to mention that it was not in the chain when I connected the U192 after it came back from repair -- after which it got burned again. Maybe a short somewhere in the PC. Detective work ongoing... tapatrick 1 audio system Link to comment
tapatrick Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Wondering if you checked the output of the suspect PC USB bus power using same method as in your photo? Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. Link to comment
bodiebill Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 1 hour ago, tapatrick said: Wondering if you checked the output of the suspect PC USB bus power using same method as in your photo? I am no expert at this, and not sure I am doing the right thing. I connected the USB connection of the non-powered suspect PC to a (uncommon) cable with USB-A male on both sides, and then to the USB-A female (see pic above) with the bare wires at the other end. All wire combo's have ample resistance except for the black-red combo, which starts with showing 10 or 20 Ohm, which to me looks very low. However when I do exactly the same test on another PC that is powered on, the red and black combo appears shorted (0 Ohm). This PC is running normal: I am typing this message on it. audio system Link to comment
tapatrick Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 2 hours ago, bodiebill said: I connected the USB connection of the non-powered suspect PC to a (uncommon) cable with USB-A male on both sides, and then to the USB-A female (see pic above) with the bare wires at the other end. All wire combo's have ample resistance except for the black-red combo, which starts with showing 10 or 20 Ohm, which to me looks very low. Okay. It's not so easy to do this by text, but have you also tried reading what the voltage is, from powered up suspect PC USB? (taken very carefully from the exposed red/black wires) Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. Link to comment
matthias Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 2 hours ago, tapatrick said: Okay. It's not so easy to do this by text, but have you also tried reading what the voltage is, from powered up suspect PC USB? (taken very carefully from the exposed red/black wires) Also, you can check if there is a higher voltage during booting the PC. Matt "I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe) Link to comment
Popular Post bodiebill Posted August 6, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 6, 2020 2 hours ago, tapatrick said: Okay. It's not so easy to do this by text, but have you also tried reading what the voltage is, from powered up suspect PC USB? (taken very carefully from the exposed red/black wires) Found it! When reading the voltage at startup from a normal USB bus the voltage is 5.25. However from the Elfidelity AXF-100 bus it jumps to 12.25V. The Elfidelity manual says that the internal power should come from a SATA power cable, but this is dangerous! A SATA DOM 5V power connection should be used. A 12V SATA power connection is not stepped down to 5V. Pfff... Thanks @tapatrick for your suggestions! Ben75 and tapatrick 2 audio system Link to comment
tapatrick Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 6 minutes ago, bodiebill said: Found it! When reading the voltage at startup from a normal USB bus the voltage is 5.25. However from the Elfidelity AXF-100 bus it jumps to 12.25V. The Elfidelity manual says that the internal power should come from a SATA power cable, but this is dangerous! A SATA DOM 5V power connection should be used. A 12V SATA power connection is not stepped down to 5V. Pfff... Thanks @tapatrick for your suggestions! Wow! good find, that is shocking in the full sense of the word.. ! Ben75 1 Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 Good thing the ISO Regen was not plugged in at the time! I assume you sold it because there was no longer a clear bemefit with the U192? Link to comment
bodiebill Posted August 6, 2020 Share Posted August 6, 2020 3 hours ago, hopkins said: I assume you sold it because there was no longer a clear benefit with the U192? Indeed, there was a difference still (with IR slightly smoother, without slightly clearer), but one was not necessarily better than the other. And I am more gearing towards simplicity nowadays. After finding and solving the peaking voltage problem, the 'suspect PC' is now running beautifully again. Tomorrow a NUC will arrive 😐 but at least it will enable me to compare it with the optimized PC when using the ECD combo, which I hope will be repaired before long. audio system Link to comment
Superdad Posted August 7, 2020 Share Posted August 7, 2020 23 hours ago, hopkins said: Good thing the ISO Regen was not plugged in at the time! Actually the ISO REGEN would have completely protected his DAC. VBUS to the ISO REGEN’s input side goes only to an LT3042 regulator dedicated to providing 3.3V to the upstream side of the Silanna high-speed galvanic isolator we use. That power never crosses the moat. All critical downstream side power (to run downstream side of isolator, hub chip, Crystek 575 clock, etc.) is regulated by 4 other LT3042s which are fed from external DC source—as is the 1A TI TPS7A4700 we dedicate to producing clean 5VBUS for DACs that need it. Certainly the VBUS input of the ISO REGEN does not expect 12V, but that is within an LT3042’s input range and since the current draw of the upstream side of the isolator is only about 20mA, even the large drop from 12V to 3.3V would not generate anywhere near enough heat to bother the regulator. So even the ISO REGEN would not have been harmed. tapatrick 1 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Popular Post Qhwoeprktiyns Posted August 7, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted August 7, 2020 I had a listening session this afternoon at @Ben75. Another friend, who has "good ears", was present. Ben has some very nice, large, DIY speakers, that work surprisingly well in his small room. He has a JOB Int amp, which has analog inputs, but these inputs go through the JOB's DAC. So I bought along my Lavardin IS-X integrated amplifier, along with the ECD "stack" (DAC + UPL + U192). I also bought the Khadas Tone Board DAC, to use a starting point in our comparisons. The Khadas DAC is interesting - it has a very seductive presentation, with no obvious faults other than some lack of transparency. We then played the U192+Fractal DAC, using several sources: his desktop PC, my chromebook (using Linux), and my tablet (using USB Audio Pro). None of them gave satisfying sound - in fact it was quite a disappointment. Worse than the Khadas ! We switched to the UPL and everything sounded "right" again, producing the sound that we were used to from the UPL: very transparent, yet "smooth" and highly realistic ("vinyl like" according to my friend). We then proceeded to unplug a number of devices that were connected to the same power outlet: an SMPS, his large TV used as a computer screen, etc.. I had bought along my small AM radio to identify "noisy" gear, and it was interesting for everyone to witness the amount of noise produced by these devices. We played music again with the U192, using first his PC as a source. The sound was definitely more in line with my own experience at home, and did not have the obvious faults of the previous run. We switched to his Windows laptop computer, and it was a little better. We finally used his girlfriend's MacBook Air (battery powered - using foobar but without the WASAPI plugin - probably bit-perfect on OSX, but could not confirm), and that resulted in a very satisfying sound quality, probably close to the UPL, though we ran out of time and did not get a chance to compare it to the UPL again. Of the three (desktop PC, windows laptop, Macbook), the Macbook is certainly the lowest-noise device. Perhaps in the first tests the U192 had not "warmed up" yet, or perhaps the surrounding high noise devices created some interferences that the UPL (which does not receive music data from the "control" computer) was less sensitive to ? It was fun to try all this, and impressive to see how good music can sound playing from a "plain vanilla" MacBook (without any audiophile tweaks or audiophile gadgets attached). Thanks Ben for your hospitality (and excellent home made apple pie) ! I am not done with my tests at home, but very happy with the SQ - I think I can take it a little step further - to be continued... motberg, matthias, tapatrick and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment
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