ECdesigns

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I created that thread on the French forum and got fed up with the negative attitude so I closed it. 

 

The French always like to complain and can never be enthusiastic about anything  

 

In school, when you do an excellent job, you get 16/20, they will never give you more... (slight exaggeration). 

 

I thought this was all doing a disservice to ECD. It was all probably premature anyway. 

[tapatrick]

33 minutes ago, hopkins said:

The French always like to complain and can never be enthusiastic about anything  

😂😂

[tapatrick]

1 hour ago, bodiebill said:

Quite a relief. The music flowers as a result.  

Yes, I'm enjoying music so much these days and I am trying to share the news about EC without annoying people

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

1 minute ago, tapatrick said:

Yes, I'm enjoying music so much these days and I am trying to share the news about EC without annoying people

 

 

I failed miserably... 

[bodiebill]

Just now, tapatrick said:

Yes, I'm enjoying music so much these days and I am trying to share the news about EC without annoying people

 

Yes, and that is not always easy as many are looking to reduce cognitive dissonance rather than investigate new approaches.

[Huubster]

Great to hear that everyone is so happy with the ECD combo. I can confirm the same from my side. The U192 was already good, but the upgrade has upped the game even further, what a fantastic USB streamer it is now. 

 

In my system, with an Innuos Zen Mini as a source for the U192, I still feel the UPL has the edge, but the difference is really small, and that is a huge compliment for the U192.

 

I'm not able to describe what it is that makes the UPL still the better sounding of the 2. I don't have the right words  to describe the difference, apart from that bit of magic that  comes with the sound coming from the UPL, it just grabs me even more.

 

For me it seems to be, as described by others as well, an end-game.  For improvements, look elsewhere, it's that good!

[mevdinc]

Am I correct in assuming that ECdesigns don't offer XLR output in their DACs?

[Huubster]

4 minutes ago, mevdinc said:

Am I correct in assuming that ECdesigns don't offer XLR output in their DACs?

 

Correct.

[bodiebill]

1 hour ago, Huubster said:

In my system, with an Innuos Zen Mini as a source for the U192, I still feel the UPL has the edge, but the difference is really small, and that is a huge compliment for the U192.

 

I'm not able to describe what it is that makes the UPL still the better sounding of the 2. I don't have the right words  to describe the difference, apart from that bit of magic that  comes with the sound coming from the UPL, it just grabs me even more.

 

I am tempted to try the UPL96ETL, but what turns me off is the laboriousness of creating the usb sticks with new naming conventions. I prefer folder browsing as with the SDTrans384: files are quickly converted to PCM and put on an SD card in one go, with inherited folder structure. If with the UPL I would be able to do something similar I would probably take the plunge.

[Huubster]

2 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

I am tempted to try the UPL96ETL, but what turns me off is the laboriousness of creating the usb sticks with new naming conventions. I prefer folder browsing as with the SDTrans384: files are quickly converted to PCM and put on an SD card in one go, with inherited folder structure. If with the UPL I would be able to do something similar I would probably take the plunge.

 

Then you have @hopkins to the rescue..

 

He wrote a program which you can use to copy files to a stick conforming to the formatting required by the UPL.

 

You need Kid3 and dbPoweramp to be able to use it, but it works great. FLAC's are converted on the fly, album art is taken from the files, and the required numbering of the files is also taken care of automatically.

 

Though it's still a bit fiddly, also for me, I have to grab my laptop for using the UPL, put it on the ground right in front of my audio setup (my spouse hates it even more.. 🤣). But once that thing is playing you just forget about it all..

 

Wasn't it you living in Amsterdam by the way? I live in Muiderberg, so if you want to try it..

[bodiebill]

7 hours ago, Huubster said:

 

Then you have @hopkins to the rescue..

 

He wrote a program which you can use to copy files to a stick conforming to the formatting required by the UPL.

 

You need Kid3 and dbPoweramp to be able to use it, but it works great. FLAC's are converted on the fly, album art is taken from the files, and the required numbering of the files is also taken care of automatically.

 

Though it's still a bit fiddly, also for me, I have to grab my laptop for using the UPL, put it on the ground right in front of my audio setup (my spouse hates it even more.. 🤣). But once that thing is playing you just forget about it all..

 

Wasn't it you living in Amsterdam by the way? I live in Muiderberg, so if you want to try it..

 

Thanks @Huubster I read about @hopkins handy SW. The reason I was still reluctant is maybe because my collection is approx. 60% classical and 20% jazz and for neither my database contains albums. For classical I use a work_performer_rec-date folders and for jazz rec-date session folders. So my database does not correspond to the commercial formats. Maybe hopkins' SW will still work, but the whole approach seems a bit contrived in my case.

 

Thanks for offering a trial. Appreciated! I was not aware you were so close. 🙂

It would not only enable me to find out the above for myself, but also we could compare this USB transport to my SD transport, i.e. 

 

    UPL96ETL ⇛ TosLink input ⇛ Terminator

vs

    SDTrans384 ⇛ I2S input ⇛ Terminator

 

I will send you a PM...

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I understand that ECD is working on a RaspberryPi version of the UPL software which will work with a web browser. That should simplify things, to control the playback at least. 

 

The program I developed is helpful, I find, to prepare a USB key, but it does not really change the fact that USB keys are simply not manageable if you have a large collection and want to use the UPL exclusively.  Also, having to remove the USB key from the UPL, plug it into a computer, update it, then plug it back to the UPL, is a bit tedious. 

 

A much more convenient system, in my opinion, would have been to integrate within the UPL an internal flash memory and have a program available to copy files to the UPL directly. That way you could have a RaspberryPi with a connected hard disk (or access to a NAS), browse through your collection (either by folder, or using tags) and decide "on the fly" what you wanted to listen to.

 

In other words, I would have dispensed altogether with the folder/tracks constraint of the current UPL system, and just offered the possibility of preparing a playlist, and copying the music to the UPL to play it. 

 

Maybe I should ask John for the code that enables the communication to the UPL and have a shot at developing something

 

Right now, I am very content with the sound of the U192. But I do appreciate also the fact that you can be confident when using the UPL that you get the best sound quality, systematically. 

 

With the previous UPL I also appreciated being able to play music with the remote control, and not having the need to use any computer at all. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Perhaps an audio company would be interested in licensing their technology and offering their own version. A one-box unit, with a USB input, an sd card reader, and some form of control, would be nice. I imagine there are numerous possibilities, but also probanly many ways to do it wrong 🙂

[Michael L]

On 8/2/2020 at 9:24 PM, hopkins said:

 

 

As explained previously, I do not see the PowerDAC affecting the resale value, in itself, of the current U192 + Fractal. The only thing that could is if they come out with another similar set of improved products. 

 

 

 

I worry that the current line up will be the UPL16 + MOS16 + UTOS of next year. I would like to see upgrade options.

[matthias]

2 hours ago, Michael L said:

 

I worry that the current line up will be the UPL16 + MOS16 + UTOS of next year. I would like to see upgrade options.

 

That can happen. Maybe the way out is a DAC with modules, like a U192 module or a UPL module.

But in the end when they have developed something better they will launch it even if it does not fit to their former products.

 

Matt

 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Carpe Diem

[Norton]

13 hours ago, Michael L said:

 

I worry that the current line up will be the UPL16 + MOS16 + UTOS of next year. I would like to see upgrade options.

 

It’s a conundrum: while recent ECD products have been modestly priced, the cumulative cost of staying up to date begins to mount up, at least on the presumption that the resale value of previous generations will be low.

I view it that with ECD you are not so much buying hifi as subscribing to and participating in a longitudinal research project. An emotional response is to avoid buying products that are likely to be rapidly superseded and I can certainly feel that.  An alternate view would be that, providing  the SQ of the current ECD product cannot be bettered by another product at a price equivalent to your cumulative investment in ECD products to date, then ECD was the rational choice.  As an owner of both the current and previous  product  generations, I’ve spent c £2k to date with ECD, but I don’t know of another DAC source combo at £2k that can compete with the current ECD offering.

 

I’m also clear that the current offering is a significant step up from the MOS/UPL 16, but to my ears they sound quite different, so I wouldn’t want to recommend purchase without listening.
 

The elephant in the room here though is just how is it that ECD can make such “under the radar” strides in digital playback eschewing the cost, complexity and sacred cows found in an otherwise relatively  stagnant market?  I could be wrong, but my sense is that ECD aren’t likely to release, for the foreseeable future, another product  generation that significantly outclasses the current offering at that price point.  If they were able to do so, the issue of obsolescence for owners of their current products  would be insignificant compared to the implications  for the rest of the market, not to underestimate those already thrown up by the current ECD products .

[matthias]

26 minutes ago, Norton said:

I’m also clear that the current offering is a significant step up from the MOS/UPL 16, but to my ears they sound quite different, so I wouldn’t want to recommend purchase without listening.

 

Please can you comment further on:

 

1.) The mentioned different sound signatures

and

2.) How to do listening to the products before purchase

 

Thanks

 

Matt

[Huubster]

7 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

2.) How to do listening to the products before purchase

 

You can always contact John, I confirmed myself too, before buying, that I could return the goods within 2 weeks with full refund. 

 

But rest assure, you won't need to use that right... 😎

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

@Norton have you returned your U192 for the upgrade? 

[bodiebill]

A little word of warning, although this may be very specific for my (faulty?) setup:

 

I had a problem with the U192ETF. Less than two weeks ago, while playing music with the ECD combo, I unplugged another device (the SDTrans384, not connected to anything but 230VAC power) from the mains. The music stopped and the U192ETF appeared to be dead. I called John and he generously offered to have a look and repair the U192. It appeared that both voltage regulators (LP5907-3V3 I/O power supply and LM3674-1V XMOS core voltage supply), were burned.

These regulators have an internal current limiter and thermal safeguard, so are both protected against higher than allowed values. The only logical explanation (John's words) was that the USB bus voltage was much higher than 6VDC.

 

Yesterday I received the U192 back and took all care to hook it up as intended, with no other devices running. It burnt through again immediately when I turned on the PC source: I heard clicks and there was a smell. From another long telephone conversation with John it appeared that my optimized PC should be the culprit. It may for some reason -- on start up -- send a very high USB bus voltage.

 

Again, I am pretty sure the fault was in my own setup, not in the U192, but as we are here to learn, I will describe this setup below. Perhaps someone has an idea about the root cause, and maybe it will lessen the chance that anyone else will experience this.

 

Paul Hynes SR4 19V => HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter =>  Supermicro X11SAE-M mobo with Intel Core i3-6100T and 2x Apacer D31.23185S.001 4GB ECC DDR4 2666MHz => Elfidelity AXF-100 usb cleaner board (powered with 5V by the mobo) => Lush^1 => ISO Regen (powered by iPower 9V => LDOVR DXP-1A5DSC 7.1V) => Lush^2 => U192ETF.

 

I do not dare to connect this PC again to te U192, so in the meantime bought a NUC to replace it, while waiting for the newly to be repaired U192 (now in Beringe). This actually fits well as part of this new, more simplistic phase, as I am fed up with the endless PC audio tweaks. And with the great sound I get from the SDTrans384 (and soon maybe from the UPL96ETF) I can relax and pay less attention to the PC source.

 

P S @Huubster has kindly offered to demo his UPL96 for me some time soon, in my own setup. Looking forward!

 

 

[bodiebill]

2 hours ago, Huubster said:

You can always contact John, I confirmed myself too, before buying, that I could return the goods within 2 weeks with full refund. 

 

Actually, in The Netherlands that is a legal right for all internet purchase. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

4 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

Paul Hynes SR4 19V => HDPlex 800W DC-ATX converter =>  Supermicro X11SAE-M mobo with Intel Core i3-6100T and 2x Apacer D31.23185S.001 4GB ECC DDR4 2666MHz => Elfidelity AXF-100 usb cleaner board (powered with 5V by the mobo) => Lush^1 => ISO Regen (powered by iPower 9V => LDOVR DXP-1A5DSC 7.1V) => Lush^2 => U192ETF.

 

I do not dare to connect this PC again to te U192, so in the meantime bought a NUC to replace it, while waiting for the newly repaired U192 (now in Beringe). This actually fits well as part of this new, more simplistic phase, as I am fed up with the endless PC audio tweaks. And with the great sound I get from the SDTrans384 (and soon maybe from the UPL96ETF) I can relax and pay less attention to the PC source.

 

 

 

Could be a defect in the ISO Regen. Or maybe you "burned" something in the ISO Regen, and it is outputting 6v or more.

[bodiebill]

28 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Could be a defect in the ISO Regen. Or maybe you "burned" something in the ISO Regen, and it is outputting 6v or more.

 

Possibly. John also suggested something like that.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

When you get the U192 back, I would be curious to know if you hear any difference with the NUC powered by the Paul Hynes. 

 

It now seems clear to me that the remaining 20Mhz bandwidth can carry some noise that may effect in a subtle way the playback (I think we all agree that the impact is much less significant). But it seems very difficult to know what configuration has an effect...

 

The quality remains very high, but I am still experimenting to try and settle on the best PC source possible (keeping it  simple and convenient). It takes time to test different combinations...