ECdesigns

matthias · August 2, 2020

48 minutes ago, Ben75 said:

Wifi can be really bad, isn't it?

Not my experience.

I get Qobuz via WiFi to my MBP. For serious listening I turn WiFi off after loading the files into RAM.

Matt

Qhwoeprktiyns · August 2, 2020

Wifi channels are typically around 2.4Ghz, so that's above the 20Mhz threshold of the U192. Moreover, the Fractal DAC uses an even lower bandwidth. But wifi could certainly spread otherwise (i.e. not through the signal in the USB cables).

Out of curiosity, and just for "fun", I actually ordered today some EMI/RFI protective fabric and I will test it out on various equipment (starting with my wifi router to see if it is effective).

matthias · August 2, 2020

26 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Wifi channels are typically around 2.4Ghz, so that's above the 20Mhz threshold of the U192. Moreover, the Fractal DAC uses an even lower bandwidth.

Meanwhile I am not sure if filtering and reducing the bandwidth is the way to go.

But this thread is maybe not the right place to discuss this.

Matt

Qhwoeprktiyns · August 2, 2020

1 minute ago, matthias said:

Meanwhile I am not sure if filtering and reducing the bandwidth is the way to go.

But this thread is maybe not the right place to discuss this.

Matt

Bandwidth reduction of the data signal seems to be a key to the U192's performance.

What are you referring to?

matthias · August 2, 2020

9 minutes ago, hopkins said:

What are you referring to?

I found this an interesting read (though the pictures are missing) starting from Overall Design Focus (scroll down):

https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-technology.php

Matt

MarkusBarkus · August 2, 2020

45 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Out of curiosity, and just for "fun", I actually ordered today some EMI/RFI protective fabric and I will test it out on various equipment (starting with my wifi router to see if it is effective).

Hey Hopkins! What fabric did you order? I have been thinking about this concept. There are some excellent Swiss fabrics with quite high shield percentages you can cut with scissors.

Qhwoeprktiyns · August 2, 2020

3 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

Hey Hopkins! What fabric did you order? I have been thinking about this concept. There are some excellent Swiss fabrics with quite high shield percentages you can cut with scissors.

I ordered this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01M294MGK/ref=cm_sw_r_apa_i_gHUjFbXSR8TMW

Have no idea whether it is effective, and did not spend much time looking at alternatives.

Qhwoeprktiyns · August 2, 2020

20 minutes ago, matthias said:

I found this an interesting read (though the pictures are missing) starting from Overall Design Focus (scroll down):

https://antipodes.audio/antipodes-technology.php

Matt

Difficult to understand exactly what they are referring to. I am not an expert, far from it, but it is easy to understand that if the music data only occupies 20Mhz bandwidth then blocking anything above that is certainly not going to "take life out of the music". Perhaps they are referring to power supplies? No idea....

matthias · August 2, 2020

39 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Difficult to understand exactly what they are referring to. I am not an expert, far from it, but it is easy to understand that if the music data only occupies 20Mhz bandwidth then blocking anything above that is certainly not going to "take life out of the music". Perhaps they are referring to power supplies? No idea....

As I understand to reproduce a digital signal correctly even when it is bandwidth limited is is mandatory to have near infinite bandwidth to get no "rounding" of the waveform.

Basically filtering is bad because it is deforming the digital signal. Owners of the Taiko found that with reducing the bandwidth the SQ was also reduced. But I am no expert either.

Matt

matthias · August 2, 2020

ECD just confirmed on diyaudio that PowerDAC introduction is planned for late 2021.

Matt

McNulty · August 2, 2020

18 minutes ago, matthias said:

ECD just confirmed on diyaudio that PowerDAC introduction is planned for late 2021.

Matt

Many thanks for your update. I don’t think I will wait this long for the headphone version of the PowerDAC. So for me, it’s gonna be either U192ETL and Fractal DAC or another stand alone DAC to add to my existing headphone amp. The main things holding me back from purchasing the ECD products are the box count and the expected poor resale value.

matthias · August 2, 2020

25 minutes ago, McNulty said:

I don’t think I will wait this long for the headphone version of the PowerDAC. So for me, it’s gonna be either U192ETL and Fractal DAC or another stand alone DAC to add to my existing headphone amp. The main things holding me back from purchasing the ECD products are the box count and the expected poor resale value.

I understand your POV.

I thought they would launch it late this year. The expected poor resale value may be caused by the permanent improvements.

The PowerDAC seems to work only with the Fractal principle, so at least in this point seems to be some continuity.

However, I think it is very interesting what they do and I am very curious about this PowerDAC project.

Matt

Qhwoeprktiyns · August 2, 2020

2 hours ago, matthias said:

ECD just confirmed on diyaudio that PowerDAC introduction is planned for late 2021.

Matt

I am wondering whether this is a mistake and he meant to say late 2020.

As explained previously, I do not see the PowerDAC affecting the resale value, in itself, of the current U192 + Fractal. The only thing that could is if they come out with another similar set of improved products.

Huubster · August 2, 2020

4 minutes ago, hopkins said:

I am wondering whether this is a mistake and he meant to say late 2020.

No, it's not a mistake, he confirmed the same to me, end of next year.

By the way, I've been busy the last days and haven't had much time to listen to my upgraded U192. So my final impressions will have to wait, but my initial listening sessions confirmed my hopes, that it indeed is a major upgrade and brings the U192 close to the UPL. I have to do some more sessions to confirm this though. To be continued..

Qhwoeprktiyns · August 2, 2020

1 minute ago, Huubster said:

No, it's not a mistake, he confirmed the same to me, end of next year.

By the way, I've been busy the last days and haven't had much time to listen to my upgraded U192. So my final impressions will have to wait, but my initial listening sessions confirmed my hopes, that it indeed is a major upgrade and brings the U192 close to the UPL. I have to do some more sessions to confirm this though. To be continued..

Thanks. I guess he is being cautious and will probably allow for plenty of time to test it before they are to ship it to customers, which is a good thing. Given the size, and weight (not to mention the speakers), this is perfectly understandable.

Its not easy doing these comparisons - don't drive yourself crazy

Huubster · August 2, 2020

16 minutes ago, hopkins said:

As explained previously, I do not see the PowerDAC affecting the resale value, in itself, of the current U192 + Fractal. The only thing that could is if they come out with another similar set of improved products.

Agree @hopkins.

The amount of money put in the ECD combo is peanuts if you compare it to prices of other DACs playing in the same league. I even dare to say there will be only a few DAC''s, if any, who will come close to the Fractal DAC. So what are we talking about here..

matthias · August 2, 2020

35 minutes ago, hopkins said:

As explained previously, I do not see the PowerDAC affecting the resale value, in itself, of the current U192 + Fractal. The only thing that could is if they come out with another similar set of improved products.

Agree,

the PowerDAC is in a completely different category and I expect the price range to be accordingly.

Matt

Qhwoeprktiyns · August 2, 2020

One thing I am really looking forward to is testing the Fractal DAC + UPL (and U192) in different (better) systems than mine and:

- getting more opinions from experienced audiophiles

- see for myself how far things can go with better speakers (and amplification).

I don't know how many units ECD is going to produce, and how many customers will buy it (and speak out about it) in the coming months, or whether they could get professional reviewers. It would be certainly interesting to get some more opinions. In fact, I am really surprised (and a little disconcerted) by the fact that this is the only audio forum in which their products are being discussed. I hope some more people will feel a little adventurous and purchase them.

I put the U192 in parenthesis, because I have the feeling that getting the best out of the U192 is tricky - and there may be some quasi-random variability in its performance in different systems, which of course is not an issue with the UPL as it is a "self contained" and autonomous system that probably performs just as well in any context. But that is more a "hunch" now. I look forward to checking ECD's new bit-perfect tool and see if that provides some explanations.

By the way, I think its worth getting both the UPL and U192 as the UPL can serve as a benchmark.

matthias · August 2, 2020

20 minutes ago, hopkins said:

I put the U192 in parenthesis, because I have the feeling that getting the best out of the U192 is tricky - and there may be some quasi-random variability in its performance in different systems, which of course is not an issue with the UPL as it is a "self contained" and autonomous system that probably performs just as well in any context. But that is more a "hunch" now. I look forward to checking ECD's new bit-perfect tool and see if that provides some explanations.

What I find remarkable is that ECD seem to use the U192 with simple MacBooks and get good results at least so good that they can easily demonstrate the superiority of the PowerDAC in comparison to the common Fractal DAC.

As good as the UPL might be I see no value in it when getting all music from streaming services.

The question is why is getting the best out of the U192 so tricky, it should not be the case with a supposed source independence.

Matt

Qhwoeprktiyns · August 2, 2020

23 minutes ago, matthias said:

The question is why is getting the best out of the U192 so tricky, it should not be the case with a supposed source independence.

Matt

I only used 'non audiophile' generic sources (no audiophile music server/player, no audiophile network switch, no fancy cables) with the U192, and i think I am getting very good sound now, so I can definitely concieve that a Macbook playing local files could give very good results. But its just my own opinion. Tapatrick seems to be happy as well. Bodiebill not quite convinced, and Huubster is in the process of finding out. Norton may not have the new version yet. So that's a really limited sample! Let's give this a little more time..

McNulty · August 3, 2020

13 hours ago, hopkins said:

I am wondering whether this is a mistake and he meant to say late 2020.

As explained previously, I do not see the PowerDAC affecting the resale value, in itself, of the current U192 + Fractal. The only thing that could is if they come out with another similar set of improved products.

FWIW, my point re the resale value is not so much based on the future release of the PowerDAC, but more on the fact that the brand and its products are quite unknown to hifi enthousiasts, even in its country of origin. Your post #668 also reflects this IMO.

Qhwoeprktiyns · August 3, 2020

18 minutes ago, McNulty said:

FWIW, my point re the resale value is not so much based on the future release of the PowerDAC, but more on the fact that the brand and its products are quite unknown to hifi enthousiasts, even in its country of origin. Your post #668 also reflects this IMO.

Agreed

tapatrick · August 3, 2020

20 hours ago, hopkins said:

see for myself how far things can go with better speakers (and amplification).

That's where my attention is going now.

19 hours ago, matthias said:

The question is why is getting the best out of the U192 so tricky, it should not be the case with a supposed source independence.

Like many in this hobby I've spent years of enjoying forums and relentlessly tweaking - spending to my budget where I saw fit and when I was convinced. It's hard to give up the itch of seeking for improvements but that is often motivated by a lingering dissatisfaction. I may well be wrong but I can't see how this SQ from EC Combo can be bettered, especially with great recordings. I'll be watching the Power DAC project otherwise after a few minor adjustments I've just made to my set up this weekend, I am pretty convinced that I would have to spend many 10s of £1000s and move house to improve on the SQ I am getting at present from the EC U192 and Fractal DAC. Even then I think that would only be matter of scale, as in filling a larger space.

20 hours ago, hopkins said:

In fact, I am really surprised (and a little disconcerted) by the fact that this is the only audio forum in which their products are being discussed.

I also find this puzzling given how everyone is genuinely seeking for a perfect sound. However we are all heavily invested in our own choices especially when hard earned cash is handed over. Look at the claims and fascination on almost every thread on audiophile forums, it's hard to pull back and see what else is going on and not for sale in the US will limit the spreading of the EC meme. Still more people should try this equipment as it is a genuine breakthrough.

bodiebill · August 3, 2020

1 hour ago, tapatrick said:

Look at the claims and fascination on almost every thread on audiophile forums, it's hard to pull back and see what else is going on and not for sale in the US will limit the spreading of the EC meme. Still more people should try this equipment as it is a genuine breakthrough.

I recognize that. Thanks to recent findings that partly resulted from this thread, and more focus on minimalist solutions, I now spend so much less time reading AS posts. I finally unfollowed these endless feverish threads on network optimization, usb taming, fancy power supplies, ultimate PC builds etc. Quite a relief. The music flowers as a result.