ECdesigns

[Huubster]

14 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

LMS+squeezelite is bit perfect, but for some reason it just does not sound as good. No idea why.

 

That's gonna be interesting, my Innous Zen uses LMS, and I use Orange Squeeze as remote on my phone.

 

I expected my upgraded U192 to arrive yesterday, but it got delayed, today will be the day.. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Just now, Huubster said:

 

That's gonna be interesting, my Innous Zen uses LMS, and I use Orange Squeeze as remote on my phone.

 

I expected my upgraded U192 to arrive yesterday, but it got delayed, today will be the day.. 

 

I was disappointed, but I have not given up.

 

Remember that I was only able to test the following configurations:

- squeezelite on Raspberrypi 

- LMS+squeezelite on Windows 10

 

So it could very well be an unlucky combination of the software+OS+hardware.

 

I plan on trying Daphile on my NUC, as this is linux based LMS. Have to take the time to swap the internal SSD. 

 

I really like LMS, and use it with Material Skin (web player) and through my own custom web app.

[Ben75]

2 hours ago, hopkins said:

I plan on trying Daphile on my NUC, as this is linux based LMS. Have to take the time to swap the internal SSD. 

Good idea to try Daphile, even if this is a kind of streaming usable software which require internet to be driven. But it seems to be a great and easy to install configuration. You can easily boot a USB Key with this light software and play music through your external HDD.

 

2 hours ago, hopkins said:

LMS+squeezelite is bit perfect, but for some reason it just does not sound as good. No idea why. Have not tried Roon, as I do not have a subscription (and don't want to bother). 

Perhaps is it because software solutions (when you divide your media and the player) is kind of worse than a local storage solution?

By the way, many thanks for your tests inputs here ! 🙂

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

LMS + squeezelite can be run on the same box... Internet connection is only needed to control the playback. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

One small but perphaps significant addition: there are 4 USB ports on my NUC - 2 in the front, 2 in the back. One in the front has a higher power supply (yellow), the other (blue) has lower power. I just realized that the front blue port is the only one it seems, that gives me good results. It may simply be due to the fact that my external SSD and the Rj45 ethernet cable are both connected in the back. Keeping the U192's USB cable plugged in straight out from the front may minimize interferences. 

 

I will try Daphile in that configuration, and wtfplay again as well, because that may not be something I had been attentive to. 

 

To be confirmed... 

 

It seems that it's all about little details like this. Using a well manufactured PC, even if it is not designed spefically for audiophiles, certainly helps. 

[tapatrick]

58 minutes ago, hopkins said:

It seems that it's all about little details like this. Using a well manufactured PC, even if it is not designed spefically for audiophiles, certainly helps. 

Yes, the front USB port is confirmed by many to be the best. Have you tried running Audiolinux in RAMboot from a USB stick (then remove USB stick when all loaded in RAM) with no hard drive attached? This rocket fuels the humble NUC for optimum SQ. There is no reason why any player software can't be configured to run like this.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Have not tried. Will check, thanks. 

[tapatrick]

1 hour ago, hopkins said:

Have not tried. Will check, thanks. 

There was a big following on the Novel thread for an extended time with lots of interesting discoveries and experimenting using this method with NUCs. To be honest I'm not sure it is worth it so much now in the context of feeding the EC combo.

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

5 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

There was a big following on the Novel thread for an extended time with lots of interesting discoveries and experimenting using this method with NUCs. To be honest I'm not sure it is worth it so much now in the context of feeding the EC combo.

 

Exactly my thought as well 👍

I also need to run a web server from that computer so don't want an exotic system. 

[matthias]

Do ECD have a showroom in the NL where it is possible to listen to their complete range of products?

They do not seem be far from the border to Germany.

 

Thanks

 

Matt

[bodiebill]

20 hours ago, matthias said:

Do ECD have a showroom in the NL where it is possible to listen to their complete range of products?

They do not seem be far from the border to Germany.

 

I know they occasionally did listening sessions for an audio club in the Limburg area, but the last one was already sometime ago. You could ask John whether he is willing to arrange something by appointment. I (maybe others?) would be interested to join... (I am in Amsterdam, 3.5 hrs by train and bus, 2 hrs by car 😐 from Beringe.)

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

11 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

I know they occasionally did listening sessions for an audio club in the Limburg area, but the last one was already sometime ago. You could ask John whether he is willing to arrange something by appointment. I (maybe others?) would be interested to join... (I am in Amsterdam, 3.5 hrs by train and bus, 2 hrs by car 😐 from Beringe.)

 

I would definitely be interested in joining. 

[matthias]

20 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

I know they occasionally did listening sessions for an audio club in the Limburg area, but the last one was already sometime ago. You could ask John whether he is willing to arrange something by appointment. I (maybe others?) would be interested to join... (I am in Amsterdam, 3.5 hrs by train and bus, 2 hrs by car 😐 from Beringe.)

 

I would wait until the PowerDAC is "ready".

 

Matt

[bodiebill]

27 minutes ago, matthias said:

I would wait until the PowerDAC is "ready".

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/titskq7vJLUoHx4A6

Work in progress...

[matthias]

8 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

https://photos.app.goo.gl/titskq7vJLUoHx4A6

Work in progress...

 

NICE 🙂

And this beast does only deliver 6W per channel?

 

Matt

[tapatrick]

7 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

NICE 🙂

And this beast does only deliver 6W per channel?

 

Matt

yes very nice project (I'm sure you probably know this  ) with high efficiency speakers 6W is a lot, my mono amps are 2W and easily enough. I just tried running the Fractal DAC direct to my mono amps as I restored the volume controls. Playing Stockfisch recordings and I couldn't ask for better SQ..

[matthias]

1 minute ago, tapatrick said:

yes very nice project (I'm sure you probably know this  ) with high efficiency speakers 6W is a lot, my mono amps are 2W and easily enough.

 

You must know I listen very loud, sometimes my 80W amp gets warm with my 99dB speakers 😀

 

Matt

[bodiebill]

Whoops, my Spendor SP100's are 89dB 😕

But not a very loud listener I believe...

[tapatrick]

2 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

You must know I listen very loud, sometimes my 80W amp gets warm with my 99dB speakers 😀

 

Matt

I can't tell what your equipment is - any chance you can list for understanding of your listening preferences and as a benchmark? 

[matthias]

23 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

I can't tell what your equipment is - any chance you can list for understanding of your listening preferences and as a benchmark? 

 

Qobuz / Audirvana / MBP, High Sierra -> Khadas Tone Board -> Exposure 21 modified -> Exposure 4DR modified -> JBL 3677

ICs: Linn Silver

Speaker cable: Exposure

Mains distribution with separate spur (5AWG) and DIY mains distribution block hard wired without connectors

No HP listening, speakers only

No local files

Listen mostly to Jazz of all kind

 

Matt

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

I asked John about differences in USB sources and I hope he will not mind if I quote his answer: 

 

"Different USB audio Sources do have unique and totally different interference spectrum, even PCs of the same type running the same OS and apps produce a different interference spectrum." 

 

Remember, this only potentially affects the bandwidth below 20 Mhz, so it is less impactful than with other USB interfaces/DACs, but could still explain some small differences. 

 

He is working on a new bit-perfect test (USB key) that will perform the test over a minute, and that should be very interesting, because some dsp degradation/errors could kick in after the first seconds (current bit-perfect test). My personal hunch is that this could be the case on Windows, for example.

 

Regarding powering the U192 with external power supplies, he warned not to use anything above 5.25v. U192 could be permanently damaged. Also, ground loops could become an issue. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Also, as a follow up on my tests, I am getting good results with my NUC and squeezelite in this configuration:

- LMS on my desktop computer, streaming to the NUC

- NUC with linux (tinycore) and squeezelite (https://audiodigitale.eu/?p=228)  - system boots from USB key, is in RAM, so USB key can be removed after startup - I removed the internal SSD and disabled internal audio in the BIOS.

 

I still put the NUC at a distance from the U192, with ferrite beads on all cables going to and from the NUC (power supply, Ethernet, USB).

I do not know exactly what contributes to the results, and I am probably just going to leave it as is and stop testing for a while. The slight harshness I was observing on that Diane Krall song is gone in this configuration (as with Foobar), and I am quite happy being able to use LMS again

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

By the way, if you have any doubts about EMI/RFI, you can take a small battery operated AM radio and pass the antenna over your equipmemt. It is a very approximate way of identifying noise emissions, but still an interesting test.

 

Dead silent when it is above the ECD units, but there is some serious noise coming out of my NUC, not to mention my desktop computer. My NUC is placed about 2 meters from the DAC. My desktop computer is in another room. 

 

If you want to play it safe, it is not sufficient keeping a powerful server away from your rig. Even small low-power players (NUC, Raspberrypi, etc..) can emit a lot of garbage... An aluminum case may not be of much help, as these emissions can escape easily through vents, cable sockets etc.

 

Avoiding placing any computer in your audio rack is probably a "best practice". 

[Ben75]

5 hours ago, hopkins said:

By the way, if you have any doubts about EMI/RFI, you can take a small battery operated AM radio and pass the antenna over your equipmemt. It is a very approximate way of identifying noise emissions, but still an interesting test.

 

Dead silent when it is above the ECD units, but there is some serious noise coming out of my NUC, not to mention my desktop computer. My NUC is placed about 2 meters from the DAC. My desktop computer is in another room. 

 

If you want to play it safe, it is not sufficient keeping a powerful server away from your rig. Even small low-power players (NUC, Raspberrypi, etc..) can emit a lot of garbage... An aluminum case may not be of much help, as these emissions can escape easily through vents, cable sockets etc.

 

Avoiding placing any computer in your audio rack is probably a "best practice". 

Hi Hopkins,

 

Do you connect your NUC to the Internet through RJ45 cable or through Wifi during your listenning sessions?

Wifi can be really bad, isn't it?

 

Best,

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

LMS is on my desktop PC and is linked to my router through wifi. 

 

Squeezelite is on my NUC and linked to my router with RJ45 (basic cable). 

 

So I do have wifi in my appartment (there is only one room that has cable running through the walls). I cannot avoid it. Also, living in the city, there is wifi everywhere. I cannot ask my neighbors to shut theirs down