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38 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

I must have been tired of all the comparisons, and omitted this one on the basis of the U192ETL + Terminator combo SQ deteriorating by just adding streaming (E vs G). So why add streaming at all? Well, because most of the buzz here is about the ECD combo mitigating the upstream noise. So I added H and here is the result (subjective of course as always):

image.thumb.png.6ba9d9cb09f7f0b497e41ed8287cd3ac.png

 

This shows how successful the ECD combo is. H at least equals E, so that is a great job. Plus all the convenience that comes with it. And the cost effectiveness. (I think I could do without the Terminator if I did not have the SDTrans384 or want to listen to native DSD once in a while.)

 

Sorry to have kept all in suspense, but for me this looks like the icing on the cake.

My problem now -- but also fun -- is that I have too many great sounding options to choose from.

Time will learn what I will settle into...

 

If I would be convicted to H only, I would be a happy man.

Thank you for his work! 🙂

 

what is the interest of the DSD according to your ears? 😉

It seems to me that 24bot in 96kHz is already the top of the sound quality, isnt’t it?

DSD has a major : size... it is so heavy, like Wave files!

 

I think the next step for us will be to try the PowerDAC as it seems to be a great synergy with their combo! After that should be left only the speakers quality and some minor improvement on their electronics perhaps?

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1 hour ago, tapatrick said:

I see you tried the IsoRegen - I couldn't get mine to show up when inserted with EC combo, but I have found it to temperamental depending on what's in the chain. Not a biggie now but might try again to see if there is any difference/benefit.

 

In my case it does not 'show up' either, but neither does it hide the U192ETL when powered on, so it is part of the chain. 

 

audio system

 

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11 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

In my case it does not 'show up' either, but neither does it hide the U192ETL when powered on, so it is part of the chain. 

.. Sorry I meant it doesn't connect with IsoR (in chain before the U192...)

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

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1 hour ago, Ben75 said:

what is the interest of the DSD according to your ears? 😉

It seems to me that 24bot in 96kHz is already the top of the sound quality, isnt’t it?

DSD has a major : size... it is so heavy, like Wave files!

 

I used to convert everything to DSD as my previous DAC's DSD circuit was much better than its PCM circuit. It was a Lampizator Lite/Big 7 hybrid.

 

The Terminator that I am now using has a gorgeous PCM circuit, so I no longer convert flac files to DSD. I understand the Terminator upsamples all PCM to a whopping PCM1536 when in OS mode. This sounds slightly better to my ears than its NOS mode.

 

However, playing good original DSD material, upsampled to DSD256, has a certain magic that is missing from the same converted to HR PCM. A certain mildness, effortlessness, airiness. It is all very subtle but appreciated in longer listening sessions.

 

But I must say that I never thought the format itself is 'better', it is all chain dependent, as shown by the different DAC's. That is why it is not unthinkable that I would listen to PCM only. Otherwise I would not have dived so deep into the ECD gear.

 

By the way, my DSD files are packed in WavPack (wv) lossless format (40-50% size reduction, using f.i. xrecode3) and can be played directly by JRiver (not preferred) or the Russian Album Player console version that I run within wtfplay. But for serious listening I quickly convert them (again using xrecode3) to DSD256 dff format for the SDTrans384 or HX500.

 

Apologies if some of this is somewhat off-topic, however it is part of the playing field that helps assessing the value of ECD gear.

 

audio system

 

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22 hours ago, bodiebill said:

 

I used to convert everything to DSD as my previous DAC's DSD circuit was much better than its PCM circuit. It was a Lampizator Lite/Big 7 hybrid.

 

The Terminator that I am now using has a gorgeous PCM circuit, so I no longer convert flac files to DSD. I understand the Terminator upsamples all PCM to a whopping PCM1536 when in OS mode. This sounds slightly better to my ears than its NOS mode.

 

However, playing good original DSD material, upsampled to DSD256, has a certain magic that is missing from the same converted to HR PCM. A certain mildness, effortlessness, airiness. It is all very subtle but appreciated in longer listening sessions.

 

But I must say that I never thought the format itself is 'better', it is all chain dependent, as shown by the different DAC's. That is why it is not unthinkable that I would listen to PCM only. Otherwise I would not have dived so deep into the ECD gear.

 

By the way, my DSD files are packed in WavPack (wv) lossless format (40-50% size reduction, using f.i. xrecode3) and can be played directly by JRiver (not preferred) or the Russian Album Player console version that I run within wtfplay. But for serious listening I quickly convert them (again using xrecode3) to DSD256 dff format for the SDTrans384 or HX500.

 

Apologies if some of this is somewhat off-topic, however it is part of the playing field that helps assessing the value of ECD gear.

Many thanks for this great answer: you did answer to my questions.

 

when ECD will launch their PowerDAC it should be interested to compare the Terminator through DSD files and their PowerDAC through Flac 24bits and 96kHz. Depending of the potential coming reviews of the PowerDAC that some will write, would you expect to purchase it or not?

Perhaps the PowerDAC will be a much refined solution overall because all of its components will be powered by a great LPSU homemade by John Brown.

Anyway, many thanks for your great feedbacks!

 

Ben

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13 minutes ago, Ben75 said:

when ECD will launch their PowerDAC it should be interested to compare the Terminator through DSD files and their PowerDAC through Flac 24bits and 96kHz.

 

As I understand the PowerDAC operates completely in the digital domain. So a direct comparison of DACs is not possible, you would have to compare two completely different set-ups.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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3 minutes ago, Ben75 said:

Depending of the potential coming reviews of the PowerDAC that some will write, would you expect to purchase it or not?

 

I only just purchased the U192ETL + DA96ETF + SVC24 combo and am happy with it.

Best SQ with streaming I ever had and I do not feel feverish yet to replace that combo by the PowerDAC  🙂 

I might consider it if it could in theory replace te Terminator, however I still need the latter for playing from SD transport with I2S (best SQ so far) and/or native DSD files.

 

audio system

 

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1 hour ago, bodiebill said:

How is that possible for a Digital-to-Analogue converter?

 

According to his (ECD) latest post on diyaudio it will be an DAC-Amp without analog preamp or poweramp circuits quasi a switch-amp.

I suppose there will be some sort of DAC circuit directly before the output to the speakers.

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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1 hour ago, bodiebill said:

 

I only just purchased the U192ETL + DA96ETF + SVC24 combo and am happy with it.

Best SQ with streaming I ever had and I do not feel feverish yet to replace that combo by the PowerDAC  🙂 

How would you rate the SVC24?

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

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20 minutes ago, bodiebill said:

 

I am really pleased with it, but must admit I have not tried many preamps.

 

Most preamps I used in the past seemed to 'take something away' from the sound. Until I tried the passive LDR based Australian Lightspeed Attenuator. This opened up the sound and felt like DAC-direct with just some attenuation. This was followed by a (also passive LDR based) DIY Stereo Coffee preamp from New Zealand, which seemed like a small step up. The SVC24 at least equals the latter, and appears to me even somewhat clearer/quieter. Its lack of a power supply does appeal to me.

 

Of course there are some that prefer active preamps. I just never heard one that could please me (which does not say much as I stopped trying long time ago).

Yes preamps are a necessary evil. I have a Croft tube pre-amp for managing other and low inputs which I am very happy with. It does add some nice 'muscle' to the sound. The PS Audio Junior has a preamp built in which is very good. I'm running the EC combo through the Croft at present but I did try the DA96ET straight to my mono amps when I received it. It was LOUD which shows it has a healthy output.

 

I added volume controls back on my mono amps at the weekend so will have to try the DA96ET direct using these controls (I had taken them off a while back as they were not needed).

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

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1 hour ago, tapatrick said:

I’ve made a few more tests with interesting results, showing that initial listening tests also need to be backed up by longer term listening to determine all the qualities of a set up:

 

Benchmark that I had settled on:

Antipodes DXe > ECD USB cable (with Clean 5V injection ) > ElectroTos > U192 > Fractal DAC (with Clean 5V injection ) > rest of system

 

New tests with bold showing the different additions:

A - Antipodes DXe > Ghent USB Y-Cable with extra shielding and Oyaide Input > U192 > ElectroTos > Fractal DAC > rest of system
https://www.ghentaudio.com/usb/u22.html

 

B - Antipodes DXe > ECD USB cable (with Clean 5V) > U192 > ElectroTos as Toslink > PS  Audio Junior DAC (upsamples to 10x DSD outputting 2x DSD)

 

C - Antipodes DXe > NUC Roon endpoint, (running Audiolinux in RAM, no hard drive - (powered by DIY 8x bank of LifePo4 Batteries with battery management circuit)) > ECD USB cable (with Clean 5V) > U192 > ElectroTos > Fractal DAC > rest of system

 

The thing is these all sound superb and it is very hard to tell the difference between each other and the benchmark.

 

A - Sounded the same as the benchmark - possibly slightly better. This is a tidier connection feeding clean 5V into the U192 and Data from my music server - so I'm sticking with this.

 

B - Removed the jumper from back of U192 and fed my PSAudio DAC with Toslink. Note this DAC does an internal DSD upsampling and conversion. This gave an amazing sound quality, best SQ from this DAC to date. I could live with this and highlights how the U192 is cleaning up toslink output/input. Toslink has always sounded brash to me before this point, so this tells me the U192 is a no brainer for feeding Toslink DACs.

 

Is it better/worse than the EC combo? It's very hard to tell at this point but has reduced the difference drastically. The sound is very clean and enjoyable which restores my faith in this DAC. However at £4000 v £575 for the DA96ETF it's a true bargain from EC. I will have to give it more time to tell which I prefer but at present I put them at equally enjoyable. There is a difference in sound character compared to benchmark but I would not say one is 'better' at this point.

 

C - This was also hard to tell from the benchmark yet still an amazing SQ. I used to run an NUC pair of Roon core and Roon end point (audiolinux, Ram boot, no hard drive etc) with this NUC as Roon end point and found it amazing at the time. However I slowly lost interest over time with the glitchiness of the set up and the 'digital' quality to the sound. Again, now I could definitely live with this. Will give these 2 set ups (B & C) some more listening time to determine which I prefer.

 

 

Hi, can you remind me whether your music is actually stored on the Antipodes or on another computer (ex:NAS)? Do you have the option of doing both, and if so, have you compared them? 

 

I spend 3 hours with an (audiophile) friend last night, who had never heard the UPL, and it helped me a lot to pinpoint sone interesting findings. I continued this afternoon, and will report later tonight on my conclusions, which I am now confident with. Am happy with the results. Just need to check a few more things. 

 

Seems like we are all very  busy with these tests. We all have different systems, so it is not easy to find correlations. It does take time, but certainly is rewarding and fun :)

 

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33 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Hi, can you remind me whether your music is actually stored on the Antipodes or on another computer (ex:NAS)? Do you have the option of doing both, and if so, have you compared them? 

I mostly stream with 200GB local files stored on Antipodes hard drive - no NAS. Streaming has equalled local files for some time on my system.

 

38 minutes ago, hopkins said:

I spend 3 hours with an (audiophile) friend last night,

Watch out - audiophile friends listen very carefully to what you say ... :)

Looking forward to hearing about your findings...

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

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35 minutes ago, tapatrick said:

Streaming has equalled local files for some time on my system.

...EtherRegen and clean power supplies...

Topaz 2.5Kva Isolation Transformer > EtherRegen switch powered by Paul Hynes SR4 LPS >MacBook Pro 2013 > EC Designs PowerDac SX > TNT UBYTE-2 Speaker cables > Omega Super Alnico Monitors > 2x Rel T Zero Subwoofers. 

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10 minutes ago, matthias said:

AFAIK, there are so far no listening impressions with ECD in a set-up with streaming from Qobuz?

 

Yes there are, but please safe your money and get yourself Spotify.. Qobuz might be 'high res', but it is compressed (flat, less spacial cues, small soundstage) when it gets in your livingroom. Spotify is way better. If not, there is work to do in your system.. :)

 

edit: Qobuz is not harsh

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11 minutes ago, Huubster said:

 

Yes there are, but please safe your money and get yourself Spotify.. Qobuz might be 'high res', but it is compressed (flat, less spacial cues, small soundstage) when it gets in your livingroom. Spotify is way better. If not, there is work to do in your system.. :)

 

edit: Qobuz is not harsh

 

OK, I have Qobuz Studio free trial, will try Spotify as well.

 

Any listening impressions from others?

 

Thanks

 

Matt

"I want to know why the musicians are on stage, not where". (John Farlowe)

 

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2 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

OK, I have Qobuz Studio free trial, will try Spotify as well.

 

Any listening impressions from others?

 

Thanks

 

Matt


I have used Qobuz with the ECD kit, but with an unmodified  U192 (no prospect yet of getting updated it seems) Sounded great to me, but some way behind the UPL96.

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