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  • 2 months later...
14 hours ago, hopkins said:

This afternoon I took the UPL+Fractal  for another comparison against a Terminator DAC + SOTM streamer (with reclocking and EtherRegen). Everyone present (4 other seasoned audiophiles) agreed the UPL+Fractal was superb!

 

I was eager to have a chance to do this comparison again, as I had been a little  underwhelmed the first time (I mentioned this here a couple months ago). What has changed since? 

 

- revised UPL board including the 20Mhz bandwidth limiter, same as the U192. Bodiebill and Norton have that model, and anyone who has purchased the UPL since a month or so. 

 

- use of a proper 5v battery supply instead of a direct connection to PC, though we did not compare without the battery supply.

 

Comparison of the various configurations, including using the UPL with the Terminator, showed the magic lies in the combination of the UPL+Fractal (my personal conclusion). 

 

I am eager now to see what ECD will accomplish next, in 2021 if I understand correctly, with the PowerDAC that they have mentionned on DiyAudio :)  

I am eagerly waiting for the PowerDAC, but becoming a bit frustrated as there's no news available on its eventual availability. :) 

I had shortlisted Mola Mola Tambaqui, dCS Bartok and Terminator Plus amongst others as my next DAC candidates until I came across ECdesings and this great topic.
Thanks for generously sharing your experiences.

Stay safe and enjoy listening.
 

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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11 hours ago, Ben75 said:

@mevdinc : You are perfectly right I would say.. EC Designs Power DAC will be a no brainer : far less expensive than a Terminator or a Tambaqui and potentially better (because it will solve issues coming from complex analogic chain (preamp, amp, etc.).. Wait and see - but you are on the right thread if you want to get a guenuine Hifi experience IMO! :-)

Well, I am in no real rush and have been waiting in anticipation.
Hopefully, we'll find out soon :)

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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52 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Yes, but it is not about changing the DAC only. You would need suitable speakers as well.

 

Matt

Do you imply that ECdesign DACs only work best with certain speakers or that my speakers wouldn't be a good match?
I doubt I will ever consider changing my active speakers for a DAC. If anything my speakers would reveal all the capabilities of the Powerdac even more.
 

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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1 minute ago, Huubster said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but to my understanding you won't be able to use the PowerDAC for it's intended use. The PowerDAC is the U192 and DA96ETF in one solution, including power amplification. So you should keep it to the separate parts as currently sold. Or am I saying something very stupid here..? :)

 

Regarding the speaker requirements Matt is referring to, is that they (as in passive speakers) should be at least 90dB sensitive, otherwise the PowerDAC won't probably be powerful enough to get your loudspeakers sing.. 

I guess, I should have guessed from the name 'powerDAC' that it will also come with a power amp, my bad. :)))
I have an active speaker system so I won't need the amp section at all.
In that case, I can actually try their existing solution (U192 and DA96ETF) or possibly wait for their next upgrade to the existing DAC if there's such a plan.

Thanks for the clarification. Let's not derail the topic any more.
Stay safe.

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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2 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Yes, as @Huubstermentioned you can use passive speakers only with a sensitivity of at least 90dB.

You would have to say "good bye" to your beloved active ATCs.

 

Matt

My bad. Thanks for the clarification Matt.

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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31 minutes ago, Ben75 said:

Last parenthesis about the PowerDAC - in order to avoid any misunderstanding:

 

What are the difference between DA96ETF and PowerDAC, accordin to John?

"Output voltage is now increased from +/-1V8 to +/-9V. Output impedance dropped from 375 Ohms (DA96ETF) to 1.7 Ohms (PowerDAC).

And now I can connect speakers directly to the output as there is enough output power (6W rms)."
 

PowerDAC will output 6Watts RMS which is a lot! John has a 90dB loudspeakers and the PowerDAC can drive much less efficient loudspeakers - especially in the bridged version that he would expect ot launch in the same time (late 2021) and that wil output 12W RMS.

 
And here is John's feedback about the power of this beast :
"At maximum voltage (+/-9V) it plays -very- loud, so loud I need hearing protection and this is only 2 x 6W rms. The final bridged output version offers 2 x 12W rms. The DC coupled circuit offers subsonic bass (below 20 Hz). At low voltage setting power consumption drops to 30W (stereo)."
 
So to avoid any misconception : the PowerDAC should be very capable to drive almost anything on the market...
@mevdinc : when the PowerDAC will be launched you may certainly give a try to the PowerDAC as it may be better than any active loudspeakers. (but the limit of this statement is that I have not heard the PowerDAC and don't know if this will fulfill our sonic expectations) Since then, if you could afford ot give a try to the UPL96ETL and Fractal DAC I would recommend you to do so. You won't regret it!
To anybody who will try to contradict me : I have heard one of the best active loudspeakers : the Kii Three + BXT (30,000 euros the pack). Despite its excellent reviews and success in the mastering sector, I could definitely say that the UPL96ETL + DA96ETF is far better than the previous solution. PowerDAC should be logicaly better than active loudspeakers as well as UPL96 + Fractal DAC combo. :-)
 
Now... let's focus on the DA96ETL and DA96ETF that are really masterpieces..

Wow, 'better than any active loudspeakers' is a huge claim, to say the least.
Obviously, you haven't heard any of the top range active ATCs. I have heard both the Kii Three and Dutch and Dutch 8C side by side and preferred the sound of 8Cs. Neither can get anywhere near my active ATCs and not surprising as my speakers cost around £65K.

I am sure Fractal DAC is quite special as almost all the user experiences in this very topic indicate. And it seems PowerDAC will be very special too, but I would have to hear it myself. It will be very difficult to find a matching passive speaker to mate with it to beat most top range active speakers. If I am not mistaken, that's why ECdesigns is/will be providing a speaker system to go with it.

In the meantime, I will see if I can find a way to try out the Fractal DAC with my system.

Happy listening.

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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3 hours ago, matthias said:

 

Some serious guys from the Swedish Lejonklou forum found the ATC100s passive with Lejonklou amps more musical sounding than active ATC100s.

Sorry for OT.

 

Matt

These things are also very subjective and matching components may give results more suited to one's own preference. In my experience (and many others I know) the active design always betters the passive regardless of the speaker brand.

However, I will definitely try and give the Fractal DAC and UPL96 combo a listen to see how it compares with my existing DAC.

Thanks for all your input and comments.
 

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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  • 3 weeks later...
3 hours ago, Ben75 said:

Perfectly in line with @hopkins and @Norton : the true gem in the ECD combo (UPL96 + DA96) is their DAC - even if the UPL remains better than 90% of any sources out there (from my experience). But I have never heard from a Taiko Extreme yet! 😄

The few weaknesses of the UPL96 were (according to my memories - but I should come back to Stéphane House for a listenning session) about the coherence of the soundstage (but very great already). But this machine already gives you a great sense of naturaleness I would say. Such a streamer is rare as music doesn't sound cold/digital yet, with realistic tones etc.

 

For @mevdinc, who likes his active loudspeakers it would be a terrible match ! However, it would be great to wait for the DAPI receiver that is expected to function like the U192ETL and is assumed to sound better than UPL96.

Why that?

Because it should technically allow the Fractal DAC to give its best as the DAPI will receive only the DATA (and store it into a RAM buffer) and will then process the digital signal to the Fractal DAC at the best parameters (double parallel processing + clocked separately at 200kHz). The most difficult will be for them to develop this solution as it seems very tough to encode the software I guess... 

I am hoping that ECDesigns would also do a one box DAC (XLR output)) with pre/volume control builtin. :)
 

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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6 hours ago, realDHT said:

Forgot to say, XLR connectors should be no advantage for this ECD system, as everything in the design including the output is single ended.

I only have XLR input on my amp and I was hoping to avoid XLR to RCA plug.

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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  • 3 months later...
9 hours ago, murphythecat87 said:

from what i understand, there will be two dac on offer. a speaker power dac and a headphone power dac. The headphone powerdac will also have fixed or variable output so can be used also to feed a speaker amp or in @mevdinc case feed his active ATC

buying the speaker powerdac with active ATC would be a serious lost of money

Thanks for the feedback.
This is exactly what I was hoping for, a version of the new DAC without the power amp section and with a built-in volume, so that people like me can use it with their active speakers.
 

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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11 hours ago, matthias said:

 

From diyaudio:

 

"We plan to offer an affordable medium power entry level version that is primarily intended to be used with (pre) amps but is powerful enough to directly drive 32 ... 600 Ohm headphones. Prototype is already up and running and is being thoroughly tested."

 

Matt

Thanks for the heads up.
Two things immediately put me off to be honest; 'entry level version' and 'intended to be used with a preamps'.
Anyway, it's best to wait and see the final product(s) and the options offered.
 

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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21 hours ago, hopkins said:

ECD just published a lot of information on their upcoming products on their website:

 

https://www.ecdesigns.nl/en/blog/rd-powerdac

 

- "PowerDAC - R" (for RCA out)

- "PowerDAC - S" (for Speaker out)

 

They do not mention when they will be available, as they are actively working on them (the picture is a working prototype).

Well, it seems like PowerDAC R is what I expected and hoped for, almost. Just the DAC with a lossless volume control allowing direct connection to existing amps.

 

Even though I have been designing and developing games since 1985, I always respect the design decision of the the product designer/manufacturer since it involves many parameters influences the final decisions.
Especially in this case, the sound is the utmost importance rather than the looks, to me anyway. However, I agree with some of the points raised about the recessed RCA outputs and other things that may cause potential problems with connecting/using certain interconnect cables and adapters etc.

My biggest disappointment is the fact that it offers RCA only and no XLR, as my amp only accepts XLR, which is my preferred connection. If it really sounds great then I may just use an adapter.
Anyway, it's best to wait and see/hear the final product(s)...
 

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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I am quite satisfied with their implementation and explanation of the integrated volume control. And I agree that not having a preamp is better. Going DAC direct to amp is my preferred connection.
Since they are aiming for exceptional results, I am happy to trust the designers and hear the results before jumping to conclusions.
At the moment, the only thing that is missing for me is the lack of XLR outputs, I really don't like the idea of using RCA to XLR adapter.
 

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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  • 1 month later...
  • 3 weeks later...
5 hours ago, hopkins said:

ECDesigns have completed the PowerDAC-R model, and were kind enough to send me a pre-production model to beta-test. You will find my "preview" here: https://audiophilestyle.com/blogs/blog/662-hopkins-blog/

 

It should be available within a few months, and will be priced between 1100 and 1200€ excluding VAT. Shipment outside the EU will be possible. 

 

I initially planned on posting my impressions shortly before it was offered for sale on their website. Had questions been asked until then, I would have felt uncomfortable not answering them or withholding the fact that I had the opportunity to test it. I hope people interested will appreciate reading about it now, even though there's a little longer to wait before you can purchase it :)

 

 

Wow, you lucky thing! :)

Great write up, I am really curious to hear it in my system although it only offers RCA outputs.
I wish they'd offer balanced output but presumably they think it's not necessary. There must be so many people like me with XLR inputs only. I really wouldn't like to use an adapter (RCA to XLR) but if that's the only option then it might be worth a shot.

I wish they'd use me aa a BETA tester to see how it sounds in my system. :)
Put in a good word for me Hopkins. :)))

Thanks for sharing your initial impressions. 

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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1 hour ago, Ben75 said:

Hi Mevdinc,

 

1) You will have 15 days to send back the PowerDAC-R when it will be launched (but I think you will not ..)

2) Perhaps should you ask to John what he could do for you (adding a XLR output to your unit? developping Y-cable adapter?)

3) For the little price and the huge quality you have I cannot recommend you more about getting a unit for you !

 

All the best,

Hi Ben,

I currently live in Istanbul. But I do have a friend who lives in Amsterdam, I could get him to bring a PowerDAC to me when things turn to a bit normal, perhaps in a month or two.
I will definitely ask ECDesigns if they plan to offer a solution for XLR inputs. 
Thanks.

mevdinc.com (My autobiography)
Recently sold my ATC EL 150 Actives!

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