ECdesigns

[Waldo]

On 6/14/2020 at 2:16 PM, tapatrick said:

Just want to clarify if this is a comment on the U192ETL connected to the Fractal DAC? Doesn't sound like you are impressed with it. That is the combination I would be interested in..

Hi I heard both UPL96ETL and U192ETL at EC-Designs.  The U192ETL is a remarkable source, offering connectivity with streamers etc. and it has galvanic-iso output, so probably a good update.
However, UPL96ETL performance is fundamentally different in technology. It's a dedicated digital memory player. That changes parameters.
The FRACTAL dac is amazing in itself and sure will turn any musicfile into magic.

[Waldo]

13 hours ago, tapatrick said:

Thanks @Waldo Your report is helpful. I already have a modified SD card player which has a magic sound quality, so I'm reluctant to add another files on disks/sticks approach. I'm more interested at this point in finding a way to add this magic to streaming.

I allright, first things first. good luck and enjoy ;-). tough if the dac is as good as many say, and being favorably compared to units 10x the price i haven't seen before-  this might be true for all products. Its clear theres a fair share of happy customers out there. 
Norton's comment on playing HQ files is true, tough this dac made bad recordings sound pretty nice to my ears.
What the upl/dac did best was making me realise there wasnt anything i'd miss or like differently. I think I can second Hopkins on his opinion.

I'm also very curious if a beefier psu (like supercaps) will make a difference..

[Waldo]

18 hours ago, hopkins said:

A friend has an Uptone LPS so maybe i'll try powering the DAC with it, but... 

- I really don't feel much could be improved at this point 

- the "stock" power supply is a custom design by ECD. It looks unassuming, but has quality parts and a layout designed to minimize interferences 

- moreover the DAC itself runs on very little power (100mA) which I understand, given its design, makes the power supply less critical. 

 

I am happy using the units "as is", but that was probably obvious by now 😁

 

I fully agree its alrady great sounding. The upl96/192 are powered by computer usb-out. Altough electrotos provides galvanic isolation to the dac, My suggestion/curiosity is most based on that.

[Waldo]

Hi everyone, I'm thinking of grabbing my savings to buy a new sub 1500 dac and I'm considering the Powerdac- R among others.   I hope you can share your experiences and opinion. 

So contenders are: Gustard X26pro, Okto research dac 8 stereo, EC Designs Powerdac-r. Other suggestions are welcome.


-The okto has a build in raspberri pi, and pre-out. It was reviewed in Stereophile favorable to dacs costing  
  many times its price.
-The gustard has i2s in, internal femto clock, external 10mhz masterclock and accepts  up to 796khz usb/i2s.
  Also its supposed to run NOS mode and I'm figuring how it would sound with foobar pggb plugin which  
  provides 796 upsampling and states NOS dacs highly benefit from it
-The powerdac i cant find the specs on but sure it sounds great ;-)

My system currently consists of a laptop, usb-regen,  dddac 1794 v1, schiit freya pre, Hiraga 20w amp, Pure Audio Project open baffle speakers.

Thank you for your replies.

[Waldo]

1 hour ago, jwr159 said:

Interesting choices of DACs since the Okto & Gustard are both Sigma-Delta and your existing dddac (I believe) and EC DAC are R-2R/NOS. Most people fall into one camp or the other. Given the rest of your system, it seems like you fall into the less is more camp, meaning R-2R.  

 

The EC Power DACs are minimalist DACs that have a non-conventional approach to their design. By relying on optical only inputs, and converting the serial input into parallel, they have largely eliminated the problems caused by jitter and RF noise. And as I understand it, the output of the resistor ladder is used to directly drive the RCA outputs w/o a conventional I/V conversion. Worth reading EC Product literature if you have not already.    https://www.ecdesigns.nl/00dc/powerdac-r.pdf

 

I have not heard the Okto or Gustard DACs, so no comparisons here. But I have compared my Power R DAC with the Sonnet Morpheus and Audio Note Level 4 DACs. In comparison, the Sonnet was boring, flat, lifeless. I felt the AN was a notch better than the Power DAC. But the AN DAC is sold as a kit that cost maybe 3X and then it has to be built. As far as value goes, the EC DAC is a fraction of the cost and gets you maybe 85% of what the AN has to offer.  

 

Thank you for your response. Very interesting the Powerdac R beat the Sonnet in direct comparison.

I'm not yet sure what kind of 'system' I like best, i've used only horns / open baffles and class a amps, and mostly r2r dacs so far.   I also have a purifi class d module on the shelf to try soon. Schiit freya can buffer it to xlr in. I dont mind changing all to achieve a sound i like better. Maybe i should notice that i listen to all kinds of music exept heavy orchestral stuff.

There is one thing i noticed that i like and that's higher resolution.  becouse the powerdac is limited to optical and 192khz input i'm therefore wondering if a Gustard or Okto won't deliver much higher resolution sound when given a good and clean source?

Ec Designs obviously explain why they think their technique is superior for clean (no jitter?) signal at input and output. I guess my question is do you guys think they are right in that and what's your experience with powerdac-R (or -S) in comparison. So will higher samplerate of the other dacs (given a clean source) not reflect in better sound when compared to a powerdac?

Cheers.

[Waldo]

Thanks to everyone responding so far.

[Waldo]

7 hours ago, Huubster said:

To me the PowerDAC brought me what I have been searching for for all those years, piece of mind. 

 

Everytime I put on the music, it just sounds right.

 

Could it it be bettered? Probably.. My sound is not perfect, but that does not exist either. It will be a matter of taste I think.

 

The 'high end' solutions I heard in my days are to me more or less making use of advanced equalizing, chosen to the personal taste, to tinker with the sound, but in all situations I heard that type of solutions, the musicallity, or organicness, flew out of the window.

 

It's a carefull balance you should be looking for. All the techniques available nowadays are able to extract more details out of recordings than ever before, but that does not mean it sounds more musicall to me.

how would you compare it to de original da96 fractal dac?

[Waldo]

14 minutes ago, Huubster said:

 

The PD is a DA96-Plus. They are more equal then different, to me the PD is better due to better dynamics and a even more clean (less distorted) sound, resulting in (amongst others) a blacker baxkground

i had the da96 but sold it becouse i felt it lacked a bit power especially in the low end,  

According to some members the PD-S is a significant step up if im correct?    

[Waldo]

12 minutes ago, Huubster said:

 

Edit: Due to mis interpretation from my side.

 

Never had that issue myself, never found it lacking, but that might be due to the fact I use a subwoofer to complement my speakers, which can be adjusted to my liking :)

i suspect it to be do to the amplifier i used at the time. but i must say that all dacs with dc-coupled out were not bass hitters in my experience

I saw you asked if i ment PD-R instead of -S. No i did not ;-)
Fact is that if i sell my other equipment i could buy the S but it would be quite a change in setup.   
I remember reading Hopkins review of the S model at some point in which he stated it was quite a improvement on the PD-R in his experience.  

My open baffles are 92db sensitive but  im sure ec designs has a reason for not continuing with the big 15" previous woofer they used.   But I'm sure i could get one on loan for a week or so. Luckily EC-Designs is only one hour drive away.

It is a pitty tough that one will still need an pre/amp for driving the turntable when buying a PD-S

 

[Waldo]

On 1/8/2022 at 11:14 PM, hopkins said:

 

The PD-S was definitely an improvement for me over the use of the PD-R and a few amplifiers I own or borrowed: ECD's MBV amplifiers, Lavardin ISX, Purifi amps. But perhaps other amps could give closer results to the PD-S? I don't know.

 

I understand the dilemna, especially if you have a turntable (I do too). I have a limited vinyl collection, but still want to be able to play them. So far I have tried using the USB out of a Rega Mini AD2 phono preamp, through a laptop and then a USB to optical converter. It did not sound great. I would like to try another preamp with optical out. I also plan on trying using the Rega Phono's USB into a raspberryPi to capture the sound and use the optical out of my Pi. 

 

Considering how good a vinyl rip can sound I don't see why a good ADC should not work well as a source for the PD-S.

actually i had a conversation with John Brown when he mentioned he could develop a fractal a/d converter would be very cool since its just as important for a good recording.    but in all honesty i think it would take away the fun from vinyl to rip it. Imight as well search for downloads then and sell my vinyl  in such a scenario i think.

but its very interesting wether a good ad/da conversion and powerdac solution would be sonically superior to lets say a all in one short signal path phono amplifier 

[Waldo]

Hi all I offer my ecdesigns fractal dac + transport  for sale in order to finance the try of a dfferent dac. 

its the ecdisigns da96 fractal dac + utl192 transport with electrotos protocol

No more introduction required for this great dac here ;-)

My asking price is 600 euros and an offer from 500 can be made.

Dac is good as new. Great opportunity for a very special dac :-)

 

Shipping worldwide.

[Waldo]

On 1/3/2024 at 6:04 PM, mevdinc said:

Happy New Year to all.

Can anyone comment on the possible combination of PowerDAC SX and PureAudioProject Open Baffle speakers with 96db sensitivity and 8ohm impedance?

Many thanks.

Mev

I'm just reading this.

I've had PAP diy project. Tubes wouldnt run it satisfying for me.

the woofers need too much watts, because of their size.

John Brown from EC Designs also build OB's with 15 inch woofers. The bass was astounding but it did use a solidstate design amp ;-)