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for information AIRPLAY is bit perfect as long as you stay with 16/44 files . for the PLL inside the Mosaic dac it can certainly get rid of the optical fiber and receiver Jitter but the less you have at the input the better it will be . the Aries mini is certainly a good device for lower jitter out . as for reading upsampled files instead of native resolution some says it is better some says not. have good times with your new toy ;

Airplay doesn't sound good to me prolly because it transcodes files to 16/44 ALAC for transmission (I prefer FLAC/WAV to ALAC). Out of interest, have you tried connecting your AE using an ethernet cable? Might sound better/solve dropouts...

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finally i have all the goods that deserve the Mosaic T dac . and yes it makes a big let me say gigantic difference.

for the first few days i have received the Mosaic i had a mixed feeling about it , first i had a lot of problems with my system to get it works , bad firmware on my airport express , cheap plastic tousling cable and even at the end i have succeed to make it wright with a good sounds i was not entirely happy with the sound . sure it was very detailed and dynamic but there was a kind of harshness who let me think that i will never get rid of the " digitalis" type of sounding even with a Set tube amp with carbon Pot.

then arrives the Mutec MC3 and later the Fiber GLASS lifatech toslink to Mini toslink cable.

the MC3 change the game at the first seconds of listening , unfortunately can"t go back to the cheaper Airport optical output.

remembers my old audiophiles days it"s like going from a Wadia 12 to a WADIA 25 dac everything is better more image , more details, very refined highs and stronger bass too. the Mosaic was now a very very good dac one of the best i had before ( audio aero , berkeley alpha model 1, totaldac A1 , etc..)

but at my surprise the biggest gap came from the short Lifatech fiberglass Toslink . the Mutec MC3 + the LIfatech cable put the Mosaic dac to a level i never heard before. with my Wadia compares i have now the WADIA 9 drived with a CEC TLO .

 

to resume , first the Mosaic dac is fantastic music player all price category .

two it"s not easy girl you need the best feeding it to get the best from it , software included. impossible with it to listen to iTunes anymore . Hq player of Audirvana is the minimum ( on Mac) .

Congrats on your success. How does Roon and Tidal compare to HQP or Audirvana now? Particularly with redbook files.

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ici rex , i listen mostly 16/44 99% of the time . i like the Roon for tidal , for me Roon and tidal sounds nearly the same perhaps roon is a little better but can't bet on a blind test. i don't use oversampling with HQ player just the dither filter as i have found that the Mosaic T dac prefer straight 16/44 or 96/24 files. i will say that HQ player and audirvana sounds nearly the same too but far better than Tidal player or Roon alone . that is a pity as i have to spend more money for HQ player Roon add-on . but the real gap vs Audrivana with Roon/Hq player is the Tidal integration . if you don't use Tidal Audirvana is more stable as sometimes Roon crashes with Hqplayer as endpoint ..

Thanks, apart from the software player, it seems that what box comes between server and DAC is more important than the DAC itself. I'm trying to decide between a Mutec or a Cubox/Sonicorbiter.

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  • 5 months later...
2 hours ago, hopkins said:

I have spend some more time with the UPL96ETL and the Fractal DAC.

 

I prepared a key with over 60 of my Duke Ellington albums, without any glitches. 

 

The sound quality is really breathtaking. All the subtelty of the musician's playing is revealed. The sound is much more realistic and engaging than anything I have heard before with digital. 

 

Interestingly, while very good recordings obviously shine, older recordings also greatly benefit (ex: Mosaic's box set of 1932—1940 Ellington recordings). On the later "This One's For Blanton" (duets with Ray Brown) you feel you are sitting in the recording studio, the bass and piano sound "live". 

 

I was looking forward to moving away from USB keys, but that is now simply impossible to consider.  I will be copying roughly 500 of my favorite albums to 10 USB keys, and that should keep me very happy for some time. 

 

ECDesigns' claims of having solved the issues of digital audio reproduction are, IMO, completely validated. 

 

It is important, obviously, to have a transparent system to benefit from their source & DAC. I have various amplifiers. Today i have been using the "Truth" preamp with ECDesigns' own monoblock amplifiers with great success, proving that excellent sound can now be achieved for a reasonable investment. This 1000€ source/DAC is a bargain. John Brown, of ECDesigns, is my hero :)

 

 

We can hope! I wonder why they released the PC connected version if it doesn't get the job done, maybe a server like innuos would match usb stick? 

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  • 1 month later...
10 hours ago, Huubster said:

Great to see all of you going to great lengths to find the best computer source, I have respect for the patience and time you put in to find your optimal solution.

 

Personally, I'm a completely different type of guy I don't want to mess arround with all that and therefore I use a dedicated streamer server which enables me, out of the box, to easily control my music using an app on my phone. 

 

Might not be of interest to all of you, but today I did a first comparison of my Innnuos Zen Mini as a source for the U192 against my laptop, being a basic Windows laptop, nothing special. 

 

I did absolutely nothing to tune my laptop for audio, no special software, no nothing, connected via wifi, using the Spotify app installed.

My Zen Mini uses a dedicated LPS, using Spotify steaming, cable connection.

 

Long story short:  The difference was actually far bigger than I anticipated. A lot of dynamic energy gone, compact soundstage, smallish sounding. Still very pleasant to listen to though, no harshness at all and still a very clean sound, but the energy and dynamics I'm used to were gone. 

 

My 2 cents, back to my Innuos now :)

 

I tried Spotify again as a result of one of your earlier posts and it does sound better on my PC than Tidal. However when I use my phone as the source using the same USB DAC, Tidal HIFI wins easily. I wondered whether you've tried Tidal with the ECD gear? Thanks! 

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6 hours ago, tapatrick said:

Of course one aspect of getting your hands on an EC setup is of experiencing a great relief. On the other hand - and this may not apply to you -  if you have been endlessly tweaking and seeking for years  you may find the itch coming back. Then it’s time to just settle back into the music. 
 

I can understand if someone has not taken the plunge then the searching goes on...and on.  

Would you say all your current tweaks are essential? 

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  • 4 weeks later...
15 hours ago, hopkins said:

My system has improved, and the U192 nows plays consistently well, but I have to admit the UPL is still a little notch above. Oh well, I can't complain! Streaming is very satisfying, better than it has ever been for me, and if there are a few favorite albums I want to play on the UPL, that's all good as well. 

 

I enjoyed listening to this one this morning: http://mycloudplayer.herokuapp.com/album#1567009768041. Read the comments by Jan Evensmo on this album. He's got some really good recommendations if you are into vintage jazz:http://www.jazzarcheology.com/

 

These 1950  recordings sound really good on either the UPL or the  U192 😁

Its a blessing! 

 

But LOL, I did try a 3.7v battery supply on the DAC and its a little added bonus if you want to tweak... 

Thanks for the tip, did you listen to a CD rip, download or streaming using which player/resolution? Thanks! 

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  • 10 months later...
On 6/29/2021 at 9:12 PM, tapatrick said:

Not the Power Dac but revealing non the less in terms of source immunity (or not).

 

I compared the iphone streaming Tidal via the apple camera kit with usb out to the U192>Fractal Dac (the 5V comes from PH SR4) against my Laufer Teknik Memory player mini also streaming Tidal. There was no doubt about the difference - the Memory Player is is vastly superior with a holographic, sweet and detailed sound. The iphone as a source is a convenient choice and sounds pleasant enough but puts to bed the source immunity question for me.

 

I understand the PD is another beast all together so I will look forward to testing sometime soon if the S version materialises.

Does your Memory Player upsample the signal?

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  • 3 weeks later...
2 hours ago, Huubster said:

 I knew that :)

 

But indeed, good point.

 

Though I have to come back to my former statements of my Innuos still sounding much better then my Bluesound Node 2i.. After some more A-B testing I have to say that the differences are subtle. My mind made the differences bigger then they really are. So I'm about to pull the trigger on selling my Innuos. 

 

How about that, never thought it would come so far..

Good to hear the Node 2 is saveable, what source material are you using, files, streaming? 

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14 hours ago, Bram1103 said:

Following this discussion for a while. I am looking for a DAC that comes close or surpassing analogue sources. 

 

I have now the DDDAC 1794 DAC of Doede Douma but for me this is not the way to go. Takes out the soul and emotion of the music especially with classical music.

 

Is the EDC Power DAC-R the DAC that I am looking for?

 

I know it is a matter of taste but still, looking for direction of people that have heard or own this DAC.

Ah the $64,000 question, what do you say @hopkins

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  • 3 months later...
On 11/2/2021 at 12:56 PM, yogibear said:

Looks like my creations with Power DAC R are getting more love ! Thanks for sharing this. I hope to get a new pair of F2a Siemens tubes soon in my hands and would be able to play both channels of my newly DIYed F2a SE amplifier.

 

The Power DAC R is doing wonders with this new amplifier, something which some six different tube amps I have (all DIY) don't match.

 

In my limited past 10 years of DIY experience with DAC, Amps and speakers and after putting ECdesigns creations in line, I often tell my fellow DIYers, don't discount your speakers, work on your source / transport first and may be your amps afterwards, you may never know, how good your speakers may sound and surprise you.

 

This is my favorite of all so far:

 

 

 

There a quite a few youtube videos of systems playing that song and yours sounds the best by a mile!

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  • 3 weeks later...
3 hours ago, hopkins said:

Here's a little video taken with my phone of the powerDAC-S playing music on my modest speakers. Sorry for the mess and poor lighting. Its a little ridiculous to post videos taken from a phone (which adds its own layer of distortion), and I hope the poor quality of the recording is not going to scare people away from listening to this awesome piece of equipement (powerDAC)!

 

https://storage.googleapis.com/cloudplayer/20211124_221643.mp4

 

I look forward to upgrading my speakers 😀 Also, the speakers are probably too close to the wall. I'll be moving early 2022 !

 

Are you using Qobuz for this?

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2 hours ago, Huubster said:

 

My sound does have some artifacts I don't like, like the decay of the high piano notes can start ringing around in space, as might be audible in the recording too. But it seems to be very hard to have both soundstage and pinpoint precision. Until now I personally only experienced pinpoint precision in smaller soundstages, where accoustic information of the recording room itself is somehow lost.

Are you using Roon?

For soundstage and palpable imaging try some B&W 802's, you can probably find a second hand trade.

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9 hours ago, Huubster said:

No, not using Roon, I use native Innuos software.

 

Maybe you misinterpreted what I said, but I already have that palpable sound and big imaging. The ringing has I think mostly to do with room accoustics here, weirdly shaped and not enough dampening in the livingroom.. The price of living together with someone who also has some other priorities besides audio.. :D

You said you don't get soundstage and pinpoint precision, having had your speakers in my shop, I can agree. The B&W's will provide both, assuming you meant pinpoint imaging. 

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4 hours ago, hopkins said:

The differences are certainly more subtle, if at all recognizable, with the recording than when comparing amps with speakers. The other amplifier is a Purifi amplifier that someone lend me for the weekend (Audiophonics model, with adjustable gain which I set to the lowest gain - bypasses the input buffer). When listening with speakers it is not that different from the Lavardin. The source used with that amp was the powerDAC-R. 

 

The first recording (Henri Salvador) may be the one with the more pronounced differences. When listening with speakers the differences are quite obvious. I've listened to the recordings a number of times so I am getting tired of them! 

 

The answers are:

Salvador1 = Purifi
Salvador2 = PD-S

Heroic3 = Purifi
Heroic4 = PD-S

Ashby1 = PD-S
Ashby2 = Purifi

 

The Salvador track is very impressive on the PowerDAC S, with better instrument placement, detail, and less distortion. On the recording it comes across differently, which may explain Bodiebill's comments.

 

It is best to audition the amp, but I guess we all knew that already. 

As with your vinyl recordings I think the recorder is not good enough to reveal the differences. All good fun though!

 

Good that you can now hear the sample tracks at CD quality on Qobuz.

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20 hours ago, hopkins said:

 

 

Saw this video and decided to record my own version with my modest speakers (and my Tascam handeld recorder - phone microphone is not good). Wondering how the big guy (Jay) would like it :) Maby it does not take 100.000$ of equipment to get good sound ?  😀 I'll never know.... P.S. please don't take all this too seriously !

 

https://storage.googleapis.com/cloudplayer/211204_0081.flac

 

Seems like ECD is updating their website...

I don't hear a major difference on this track. Would be interested to hear your recording of the second track by Alison Krauss (It Doesn't Matter) because Jays version surely beats my Tidal playback.

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18 minutes ago, hopkins said:

And here you go: https://storage.googleapis.com/cloudplayer/samples/Krauss Speakers.flac

There's a car passing by in my street at the end...

It sounded good on my speakers, and the recording sounds pretty good to me as well.

 

Here's the source on Qobuz: https://open.qobuz.com/track/81778909

I would say your recording sounds similar to my Tidal playback, I actually find Jays version more involving.

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15 minutes ago, hopkins said:

 

Well, his speakers have a much wider frequency range than my small floorstanders ! Don't forget you are listening to Wilson Audio Alexx V speakers that cost 160.000 €, versus my Davis Courbet 4 that cost 2.000 € ! The sound produced by those monsters is certainly very different.

 

BTW, with the PowerDAC-S, there is IMO absolutely no difference between playing the same track on Qobuz versus as a local track. The recordings are also practically indistinguishable (as I have shown previously). However, if you are convinced of the contrary, no one is going to stop you from buying a PC (Taiko Extreme) for 25.000 € 😀 As Jay says, he's a "big believer in High End"....

Mmm I'll buy it from Qobuz, see if I can closer to big Jay.

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30 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Not sure it's a question of switching between Tidal and Qobuz, at least that is not what I was suggesting, but you can always try and see. 

No for me file playback is usually better than streaming, hence why I bought the file. Still prefer Jays version...I wonder if @Huubsteris game to try recording this track? His Innuos is a damn sight cheaper than  a Taiko!

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9 hours ago, Huubster said:

hopkins has a valid point there. Not that I'm not willing to make another recording, but be cautious.

 

And it's not only my Innuos. You need to know how much impact the LPS's on my router and switch have, including using the right UTP cable. I know a lot of people don't believe that, but that impact has been huge on the quality of my streaming audio.

 

Hopkins has no point, since I didn't say I was planning to get equipment based on these videos,  lol. Anyway if you have time I would be interested to hear your recording. Cheers!

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3 hours ago, fas42 said:

Something in another post by ecdesigns caught my eye, https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/79452-building-ultimate-nos-dac-using-tda1541a-post5456735.html,

 

 

Always satisfying to find someone who understands what the task is - and what the benefits are ... people have come to this realisation from very different directions, and hence have very different perspectives on how to get there. All the methods lead to the same place: the subjectively accurate reproduction of captures of musical events and creations.

 

That the task is "incredibly difficult" is because the industry doesn't understand what a system should be getting right - and hence the raw materials, the electronic parts and components, are not manufactured in ways to make that job easy.

Yes we need Super Frank to come the rescue with his own line of electronics, lol. "Guaranteed to make every recording sound good!"

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1 hour ago, fas42 said:

 

Might have happened 10 years ago ... bit too buggered these days, :D. Luckily, people like ECdesigns are now providing ready to buy solutions - there have always been enthusiasts around who understood what was possible; it just has to become part of normal thinking, to make sure setups get it right.

 

Those who don't appreciate how sensitive our ear/brains are to fatiguing anomalies need to experience how a finely tuned system can shift from a "can't listen to this for too long!" status to, "man, this is the good stuff!" behaviour with only a tiny alteration in some aspect of the environment or chain ... you don't need the 'right' electronics; rather, you need to know what to tweak, to get the particular rig working better ...

 

 

Haha, I knew I shouldn't have replied to you🙈

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13 hours ago, Huubster said:

For the ones interested ( @Rexp), here again a recording, from Boz Scaggs, as used in earlier recordings shared here. 

 

Now only audio, no video, but recorded with the same phone :)

 

https://storage.googleapis.com/cloudplayer/samples/1566422893_BozScaggsS2.mp3.899d7bafa207bd816e8c2122b1116e13.mp3

 

And a thank you for @hopkinsagain, for making sharing possible! 

Thanks both! Your recording is the winner for me. As mentioned it may be that your recording method is superior to @hopkins

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  • 3 weeks later...
8 hours ago, hopkins said:

This was taken with my phone, the speakers are just out of their box and not broken in, the wiring sucks, and the placement is not great either... but the speakers IMO sound great. I will improve the base of the speakers, may put them on wheels to be able to store them (they are not meant to be kept in my living room 24/7), etc...  When everything is finished I will probably glue a slim sheet of wood in front so that the speakers are flush with the front and so as to improve the appearance.

Total cost was around 1300€.

 

 

According to ECD, the speakers are 2 ohm and 102db sensitivity. They do play very loud. I play most tracks with the volume between 4 and 6 (out of 12) on the PowerDAC-S. 

Sounds great, is this Qobuz?

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