Choosing a new DAC. Your thoughts on DSD today, late 2015. (POLL)

[Sal1950]

Sal -- do me a favor and don't tell me what I can hear, or what I need.

 

Thanks

 

(Where are you finding this '24/196'?)

 

Woops, beat me with a stick, I made a typo. :-)

As long as you can claim to hear something, I am well entitled to claim baloney.

Just because a schizophrenic hears voices and sees things doesn't mean I have to believe it. LOL

[kurb1980]

DSD only for me it sounds closest to my turntable. If I could find a DAC that is chipless and DSD only that is ultra affordable I would buy it. If I had the tech skill's I would build one

[likethesoup2]

Woops, beat me with a stick, I made a typo. :-)

As long as you can claim to hear something, I am well entitled to claim baloney.

Just because a schizophrenic hears voices and sees things doesn't mean I have to believe it. LOL

 

What else should I just be 'happy' with (in your opinion):

 

A crappy Kroger steak, in lieu of one from Pat LaFrieda?

 

A $2 bottle of 7-11 Mogen David, in lieu of the $40 bottle of Alisha?

 

Why should YOU get to decide what's 'good enough' for the rest of us?

 

If you can't appreciate good DSD, maybe you should have your system checked by a professional . . . or your ears.

[Sal1950]

Why should YOU get to decide what's 'good enough' for the rest of us?

 

If you can't appreciate good DSD, maybe you should have your system checked by a professional . . . or your ears.

 

I WANT you to have the very best, that's why I mentioned you might be hearing things and be the one to get an upgrade to either your ears or equipment. But if your happy listening to vinyl like distortions who am I to criticize. :-)

[Jud]

I WANT you to have the very best, that's why I mentioned you might be hearing things and be the one to get an upgrade to either your ears or equipment. But if your happy listening to vinyl like distortions who am I to criticize. :-)

 

No doubt you've got the test measurements showing the vinyl like distortions from an inline modulator like HQPlayer, a studio A/D modulator like the Grimm that Channel Classics uses, and the lack of these distortions from the modulator used in your own DAC. Right?

[Nikhil]

Some thoughts in no particular order ....

 

I just bought a DAC that plays both DSD and PCM. My opinion is that the source file matters more. I have some PCM files that sound fantastic and I have some DSD files that are just sensational (specially the new native DSD albums). The big knock on DSD is that there is very little material available in the genres of music that I like. If you are a classical music fan then you have some good options.

 

Good PCM has a sense of immediacy that I miss in some DSD albums. DSD in general has a softer sound that can sometimes suck the life out of a song. Typically I find myself turning the volume knob up a little when playing DSD (even with the 6dB bump). Given that a majority of my files are in PCM I just let JRiver play them in native format and my DAC happily plays whatever comes down the pipe.

 

For critical listening (if that even matters to you) I use HQPlayer to upsample to DSD128 or PCM 384,000Hz. This is going with the recent trend here to do the heavy lifting at the computer and feed the DAC a format that it prefers.

 

You should not confuse DAC implementation with file formats. A well made PCM DAC made will definitely sound better than a generic DSD DAC. A well made DSD DAC will give you a good reason to consider DSD.

[Sal1950]

Why certainly :-)

[Teresa]

As long as you can claim to hear something, I am well entitled to claim baloney.

 

No one hears or even listens the same, so there is no need to call anything whatsoever baloney. What is important is your listening experience with your ear/brain system, your audio system and your room. You can only speak for yourself and not others which by extension gives you no right to judge others.

 

I personally have never insisted that other people must hear what I hear, instead I suggest they listen for themselves. Also a listening impression can never be a claim and if anyone says their listening experience is a claim, it makes no difference as I still must listen to it myself. I recommend the same approach to everyone. Listen than decide for you and only you. Simple.

 

Just because a schizophrenic hears voices and sees things doesn't mean I have to believe it. LOL

 

Many schizophrenics really do hear voices and see things that are not really there. Why do you doubt this? If you really wish to hear voices and sees things that normal people do not then you would need to become a schizophrenic or perhaps try LSD. Be careful what you wish for.

 

Back to Topic

 

I like DSD downloads the best, they sound and feel more like real live music to me, but I respect the opinions of those who prefer PCM.

 

I also like high resolution well-mastered PCM also. I enjoy both DSD and PCM.

[4est]

Me too, except I built one!

I upsample all of my content to DSD128. I like the sound of it so much I bought a DAC that doesn't even play PCM.

 

A lot of audiophiles seem to be averse to DSP, but my understanding is that the vast majority of "PCM" DACs convert the signal internally anyway and often to an SDM/DSD type of signal because it requires less invasive filtering than PCM. Converting the signal in the computer instead offers the advantages of far greater processing power and a choice of the upsampling software and algorithms.

 

I would love for there to be more well recorded native DSD or well done DSD masters of analog recordings, but I'm not waiting for that. I have many tens of thousands of recordings on my server and I've found absolutely no reliable correlation between format and sound quality. IMO, all of the debates are around the theoretical possibilities of each format, which has nothing to do with what happens with any given recording. I can't tell you how many times I've purchased a high-res (PCM or DSD, typically remastered) recording only to find that it sounds inferior to the first gen redbook. It largely seems to boil down to the sonic preferences and monitoring system used by the mastering engineer.

 

I don't control how the music is recorded and mastered, but I prefer for it to be played back with DSD upsampling by HQPlayer and with no DAC chip at all via the Lampizator.

[likethesoup2]

I WANT you to have the very best, that's why I mentioned you might be hearing things and be the one to get an upgrade to either your ears or equipment. But if your happy listening to vinyl like distortions who am I to criticize. :-)

 

'Vinyl like distortions'?

 

Have you even heard DSD?

 

It certainly seems you have not.

[4est]

Don't believe in snake oil and you are posing on a Harley? ROTFLMAO

DSD, another High End snake oil convincing the easily swayed to spend ever more money

on new equipment.. 24/196 PCM is all you'll ever need. 99% of the population can't hear the difference between well done 16/44 and anything better. Of the other 1% you have to ask yourself how many are really hearing an improvement or are imagining it.

Of course no self respecting audiophile will ever accept the results of A-B-X testing or measurements.

[Tone Deaf]

 

You should not confuse DAC implementation with file formats. A well made PCM DAC made will definitely sound better than a generic DSD DAC. A well made DSD DAC will give you a good reason to consider DSD.

 

I've yet to experience the DSD magic, and I suspect it's because I have a good PCM DAC which doesn't perform as well with DSD. Too many folks report positive DSD experiences for me to discount it - I just haven't heard it for myself.

 

I've played with HQPlayer and really wanted to like it. PCM sounded silky smooth, but the smoothness was at the expense of noticeable loss of detail compared to my current player (Pure Music), and I still preferred the latter. Upsampling PCM didn't do anything for me. Upsampling and converting to DSD - first thoughts were wow! This is clearly where HQPlayer performs best. But in the end, I still preferred straight PCM with Pure Music.

 

This is with my system. For now I believe I will get better bang for the buck benefits by upgrading power sources rather than chasing the DSD magic.

[Foggie]

DSD only for me it sounds closest to my turntable. If I could find a DAC that is chipless and DSD only that is ultra affordable I would buy it. If I had the tech skill's I would build one

 

Lampi has a more affordable new dsd only unit - Euforia which is based off the same dsd engine used the 7 series Affordable is relative of course.

 

Being a happy camper with a new L7 that has dedicate PCM/dsd circuits = best of both worlds!

[Boris75]

Damn! My DAC tops out at 24/192 PCM. So close.

 

Lol!

[Nikhil]

Always go by what you hear. PCM is still very good and I don't advocate giving up on the format as yet. DSD is incredible when it comes together well but we just don't have enough DSD material out there yet.

 

HQPlayer gives you the option of playing your favorite PCM material in DSD. Play around with the settings and see which ones you prefer. Even upsampling 16/44.1 to 384,000 PCM sounds very good with some files. The feature set is very unique.

 

 

I've yet to experience the DSD magic, and I suspect it's because I have a good PCM DAC which doesn't perform as well with DSD. Too many folks report positive DSD experiences for me to discount it - I just haven't heard it for myself.

 

I've played with HQPlayer and really wanted to like it. PCM sounded silky smooth, but the smoothness was at the expense of noticeable loss of detail compared to my current player (Pure Music), and I still preferred the latter. Upsampling PCM didn't do anything for me. Upsampling and converting to DSD - first thoughts were wow! This is clearly where HQPlayer performs best. But in the end, I still preferred straight PCM with Pure Music.

 

This is with my system. For now I believe I will get better bang for the buck benefits by upgrading power sources rather than chasing the DSD magic.

[Nikhil]

DSD only for me it sounds closest to my turntable. If I could find a DAC that is chipless and DSD only that is ultra affordable I would buy it. If I had the tech skill's I would build one

 

NEW! LampizatOr DSD-Euforia DAC - Go for it!

[Boris75]

[sorry - I posted in the wrong thread]

[jabbr]

Me too, except I built one!

 

What did you use to upgrade the DSC1 PSU? Any tips on building?

[wisnon]

DSD only for me it sounds closest to my turntable. If I could find a DAC that is chipless and DSD only that is ultra affordable I would buy it. If I had the tech skill's I would build one

 

Well, a used Balanced Lampi L4 DSD Dac is on sale at WhatsBest forum for $3k and Lampi just announced a new DSD only USB Dac named the EUFORIA DSD Dac here: NEW! DSD-Euforia DAC

 

Price is $2K.

[YashN]

Well, a used Balanced Lampi L4 DSD Dac is on sale at WhatsBest forum for $3k and Lampi just announced a new DSD only USB Dac named the EUFORIA DSD Dac here: NEW! DSD-Euforia DAC

 

Price is $2K.

 

Wisnon, do you know if the Euforia is of the chipless DSD variety?

[Jabs1542]

Wisnon, do you know if the Euforia is of the chipless DSD variety?

 

It appears to be the same topology (so to answer your question - yes) but it doesn't offer any upgrades or options.

[Paul R]

DSD, another High End snake oil convincing the easily swayed to spend ever more money

on new equipment.. 24/196 PCM is all you'll ever need. 99% of the population can't hear the difference between well done 16/44 and anything better. Of the other 1% you have to ask yourself how many are really hearing an improvement or are imagining it.

Of course no self respecting audiophile will ever accept the results of A-B-X testing or measurements.

 

Oh, I just can't help it... DSD is snake oil but ... you are on a Harley, I think? (Can't tell all that well from the picture, might be a Hardly A. Davidson... )

[4est]

It might also explain why he cannot hear the differences! I effing hate the noise from Harleys. I live on a picturesque country road that bikers like to frequent. Packs of them go by on the weekends, and I fantasize about taking them out! Sorry, off my soapbox.

Oh, I just can't help it... DSD is snake oil but ... you are on a Harley, I think? (Can't tell all that well from the picture, might be a Hardly A. Davidson... )