Mac Mini, iTunes & high resolution audio

[kirkmc]

Given the type of nitpicking on forums like this (I'm not judging, just noting the types of things people worry about), I'd think that something like sampling music twice would be an issue.

[Jud]

Given the type of nitpicking on forums like this (I'm not judging, just noting the types of things people worry about), I'd think that something like sampling music twice would be an issue.

 

It obviously is and no one says different.

[thebiglebowski]

I would very, very, very strongly recommend against JRiver, I've had numerous issues recently with it and despite trying different DACs I'm really fed up to the point of uninstalling it.

 

I've been trying Audirvana+ which sounds much better than JRiver and also Roon which seems to be very impressive.

 

I also tried bitperfect with iTunes and didn't have any problems but as all my music is FLAC or DSD didn't want to convert it all to ALAC.

 

Thanks all. To say I'm finding this all a headache that almost just convinces me to stick with CD quality would be an understatement!

 

I'm not averse necessarily to using another player - JRiver does possibly look interesting, for example - but at £7.99 for each app download of the remote, it'd need to present a very convincing case to make it worthwhile considering 95% of my collection is CD.

 

I could use USB if I resumed use of the DACMagic, or HDMI if I changed my rig to go through the receiver (it currently goes straight to the TV, so the optical was the preferred choice for audio to my amp). On PC at least I always had very variable results using both of these connections, sound quality- and stability- wise.

 

If iTunes + BitPerfect will work seamlessly & faultlessly with OSX (and hopefully with El Capitan when it's released), then perhaps this is the way to go.

 

I think optical is capped at 96khz, so even if the software, the OS, the cable & the receiver input were all perfect, it seems it isn't possible.

 

Makes you wonder, a bit like 'HD Ready' TVs, that patently weren't true HD or ever displaying an HD picture, even though their users thought they were a part of the future, how many people are paying for and running high definition audio and not actually getting it through the speakers as I have been!

[robdrums2097]

Hi all,

 

So I am finally up and running. After a not QUITE as smooth transition from Windows to Mac as hoped for (having to re-encode all my WAVs into AIFF, for example), I am now mostly happy. I have installed Bit Perfect which seems to sound pretty good, BUT...

 

I set up Home Sharing yesterday, to use both the iTunes iOS Remote app to control the Mac directly, and to stream my library to an iPhone 4S in my dining room, that runs on an old Bose dock.

 

Now, I am aware that iOS 9 is due to reinstate Home Sharing to audio on Wednesday, but this particular iPhone runs an old iOS software that still supports it.

 

Ignoring the near-fifteen minutes it took to 'import' the library over the network (several thousand songs' worth), it was far from stable, and in one afternoon's use I had two crashes where the music just froze, seemingly at the Mac end, requiring a restart of both parts. I then had to 're-import' the library again, and.... well, it's just not the smooth experience I hoped for by changing to an all-Apple ecosystem (I have also bought an Airport Time Capsule as my new router).

 

I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and do some elimination testing tonight, but what do you think could be the most likely cause?

 

1) The iPhone's old sfotware conflicting with the latest iTunes (I would rather not update this to iOS 9 but probably will on Wednesday)

2) BitPerfect causing crashes

3) The mixture of file types (AIFFs, ALACs, MP3s, AACs, etc)

4) iTunes not wanting to do Home Sharing with iPhones at the moment

5) iTunes just crashing for no reason

6) Other remote apps that are on the same network, such as Rowmote Pro

7) Home Sharing just not being as good as they say it is

 

 

I know BitPerfect isn't designed to work with Home Sharing, but I assumed this just meant that I shouldn't expect the upsampled signal to come out the other end. Surely it should have nothing to do with it as it should be working on just the audio output stage at the Mac?

 

Nothing else is really running on the Mac.

 

Thanks

 

Rob

[Paul R]

I have to say, it sounds like running JRMC would solve a lot of your issues. It would also have enabled you to use your WAV files directly, should you have desired to keep them. Though WAV files are not very good at storing metadata in their files themselves, the JRMC database works just ducky.

 

With JRMC, once you get a working and stable configuration, don't change it unless you are really sure you want something in a new release. One small disadvantage of JRMC is that the rapid updates can sometimes break perfectly stable systems. But they also offer the advantage of bug fixes and new features being made available much sooner than the traditional once per year or once every six months upgrade path. Have to judge for yourself on that one.

 

I suspect it would sound the same to you with JRMC as with BitPerfect. Costs a little bit more though, something like $50. But you can run it on multiple machines, and there is a licenses available that allows you to run JRMC on MacOS, Windows, and Linux - all from the same license.

 

Good stuff.

 

-Paul

 

 

Hi all,

 

So I am finally up and running. After a not QUITE as smooth transition from Windows to Mac as hoped for (having to re-encode all my WAVs into AIFF, for example), I am now mostly happy. I have installed Bit Perfect which seems to sound pretty good, BUT...

 

I set up Home Sharing yesterday, to use both the iTunes iOS Remote app to control the Mac directly, and to stream my library to an iPhone 4S in my dining room, that runs on an old Bose dock.

 

Now, I am aware that iOS 9 is due to reinstate Home Sharing to audio on Wednesday, but this particular iPhone runs an old iOS software that still supports it.

 

Ignoring the near-fifteen minutes it took to 'import' the library over the network (several thousand songs' worth), it was far from stable, and in one afternoon's use I had two crashes where the music just froze, seemingly at the Mac end, requiring a restart of both parts. I then had to 're-import' the library again, and.... well, it's just not the smooth experience I hoped for by changing to an all-Apple ecosystem (I have also bought an Airport Time Capsule as my new router).

 

I'll give it the benefit of the doubt and do some elimination testing tonight, but what do you think could be the most likely cause?

 

1) The iPhone's old sfotware conflicting with the latest iTunes (I would rather not update this to iOS 9 but probably will on Wednesday)

2) BitPerfect causing crashes

3) The mixture of file types (AIFFs, ALACs, MP3s, AACs, etc)

4) iTunes not wanting to do Home Sharing with iPhones at the moment

5) iTunes just crashing for no reason

6) Other remote apps that are on the same network, such as Rowmote Pro

7) Home Sharing just not being as good as they say it is

 

 

I know BitPerfect isn't designed to work with Home Sharing, but I assumed this just meant that I shouldn't expect the upsampled signal to come out the other end. Surely it should have nothing to do with it as it should be working on just the audio output stage at the Mac?

 

Nothing else is really running on the Mac.

 

Thanks

 

Rob

[robdrums2097]

Hmmm, an interesting contrast to post #78 previously... (who interestingly is also using a 2015 Mac Mini like me). I have heard that JRiver is more PC-focused?

 

But basically, if I can make this current iTunes / BitPerfect setup stable, I am quite happy. I am going to troubleshoot it now by disabling BP and see if Home Sharing works a bit better. JRMC would become an expensive hobby for the amount of devices I have on different Apple IDs...

 

I would very, very, very strongly recommend against JRiver, I've had numerous issues recently with it and despite trying different DACs I'm really fed up to the point of uninstalling it.

 

I've been trying Audirvana+ which sounds much better than JRiver and also Roon which seems to be very impressive.

 

I also tried bitperfect with iTunes and didn't have any problems but as all my music is FLAC or DSD didn't want to convert it all to ALAC.

[Paul R]

JRMC would become an expensive hobby for the amount of devices I have on different Apple IDs...

 

Perhaps not- as JRMC allows/supports a single "zone" for Appletalk. You do have to manually tell your Mac what Appletalk devices to stream to, but it works just great that way.

 

Another option of course, is to run both JRMC and iTunes, using JRMC just for the local stuff, and iTunes for the remote stuff. A little more complex, but can be made to work with only a moderate effort.

 

-Paul

[robdrums2097]

We'll see what happens tomorrow with the iOS 9 update, but does anyone have any other suggestions as to my unexplained crashes? Could BitPerfect and/or Rowmote be causing clashes on the network / iTunes which might cause iTunes to have a fit?

 

Disabling BP last night seemed to work, but remains inconclusive as I only ran it for a few songs. Plus I would rather keep it if I can, without the need to manually enable and disable it every time I want to listen directly from my Mac.

 

Thanks

 

Rob

[orgel]

We'll see what happens tomorrow with the iOS 9 update, but does anyone have any other suggestions as to my unexplained crashes?

 

I'd probably wait until after checking out iOS 9 before trying anything else, but it could be that the old 4s is just swamped by how many files you're sending to it. Depending on how you listen to music on the iPhone/dock setup, maybe you could set up one more more smart playlists in iTunes that comprise a significantly smaller subset of the music and use those.

 

For example, this playlist determines the music I transfer to my iPhone:

 

 

I suspect you won't want to use exactly this playlist, but note the "Last Played" criterion and the "Live updating" selection.

 

HTH.

 

--David

[robdrums2097]

That's interesting, and possibly a good idea, David. Thank you, I will give it a try. Is that in iTunes? I had no idea you could do that. Is that still using the Home Sharing platform, or are you suggesting just dumping that small amount of music locally on to the phone?

 

It is a shame if this is the case, because Apple very much give the impression that HS is designed to do exactly this: share large libraries over a network. It isn't sending several thousand files' worth of data to the iPhone, the iPhone is just accessing what's stored locally on my Mac as it needs it. But it could be worth a try.

 

So you don't think BitPerfect is likely to be causing any issue at the Mac end?

 

Rob

[orgel]

Is that in iTunes? I had no idea you could do that. Is that still using the Home Sharing platform, or are you suggesting just dumping that small amount of music locally on to the phone?

 

It is in iTunes — I'm currently using v12.2.2.25 on the Mac. I personally don't use Home Sharing much (on rare occasions when I'm upstairs in my wife's office maintaining her computer and want to listen to music from my library on the ground floor), but assuming the iPhone pretty much stays in the dock at your place, I would try doing this with Home Sharing, since that seems like an easy potential solution for your situation.

 

It is a shame if this is the case, because Apple very much give the impression that HS is designed to do exactly this: share large libraries over a network. It isn't sending several thousand files' worth of data to the iPhone, the iPhone is just accessing what's stored locally on my Mac as it needs it.

 

No argument from me on any of this. Another possible cause of the problem might be some sort of mismatch between OS's and versions. So I would wait until iOS9 is available, and try again with current versions of OS X, iOS, and iTunes. (I wouldn't be surprised if there's another iTunes update when iOS 9 is released.)

 

So you don't think BitPerfect is likely to be causing any issue at the Mac end?

 

I don't think so, but that could be another troubleshooting test: Disable BitPerfect and see if the problem persists.

 

--David

[Daudio]

That's interesting, and possibly a good idea, David. Thank you, I will give it a try. Is that in iTunes? I had no idea you could do that.

 

The screen shot orgel showed you is the rule editor window for an iTunes Smart Playlist. It comes up when you first create a Smart Playlist, or right-clicking an existing one, and choosing Edit. You can all sorts of fun with them

[Neve]

 

SO... Why do we never talk about using HDMI, as this must be perfectly capable of the data rates required, is connected directly to my receiver already, and I'd have thought is more geared up than USB for high resolution audio considering we use it every day for DTS & DD Blu Ray 24 bit audio?

 

And am I crazy to own a DACMagic Plus with USB & be too lazy to use it (it too has often not been gremlin-free in use, especially with USB, in my three years of use with it on my PC. Funny noises, input drops, PC driver issues... Oh for a quiet life!)...

 

Rob

 

Hi guru's, what a great forum I stumbled upon ;-)

The last couple of days i'm trying to get my head around a question regarding the quote above. I have a good deal on a late 2014 Mac Mini, so i'm kinda in a hurry to get an answer. Maybe you are able to help.

 

My desired setup is as follows:

Mac Mini with iTunes connected to a Marantz AV receiver via HDMI

BitPerfect plugin installed

 

Will this setup provide a bitperfect stream to the Receiver? I can't see why "Hog Mode" would only work on SPDIF and USB. HDMI is not even mentioned on the BitPerfect developers website. I've searched the net but no definite answer.

 

I know I could connect it over optical, however this is limited to 96khz. I have no interest in buying a USB DAC just yet. Both option would also seriously undermine the usability of my system (the way I like to use it at least).

 

Has anyone tried this setup. Please share your results.

[robdrums2097]

I see no reason why it should be any different. Some have reported difficulty / instability with hdmi as an audio output, but I've not actually tried it. The main reason I stuck with optical in the end was so I could use it just as an audio input without having the TV on, controlled via iTunes Remote app.

 

Rob

[Neve]

Rob, Thanks. Do you remember where you've read about HDMI being unstable as a (BitPerfect) audio output?

 

The reason I want to use HDMI is because I also like to use the Mini for video.

However, the TV doesn't have to be on while playing music. Like you, I would use iTunes Remote app.

[robdrums2097]

Yeah, my problem is self inflicted by my use of HDMI-CEC. So when I turn the tv off, the amp goes with it!

 

Have a look at this if you haven't already: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f10-music-servers/mac-mini-digital-output-optical-or-hdmi-10293/

 

 

Nobody complains about HDMI for Blu Ray audio when mixed with video, so I can't see there should be any real difference in sound to worry about. I think a lot of people reported problems trying to use both HDMI AND optical at the same time. But probably one or the other should be fine.

 

I do have both plugged into the same Yamaha receiver, so if you need me to try anything specific out let me know & I'll try it out tomorrow evening. Maybe I'll end up leaving it on HDMI too!

 

Rob

[Neve]

The question boils down to if the BitPerfect plugin is able to 'bypass' coreaudio over HDMI, just like it does with SPDIF or USB. This could easily be tested by playing audio files with different bitrate / sample rates and see if the receiver receives the data accordingly. My receiver can display this but I don't know about other receivers. If you can do this, that would be excellent!

 

btw, on my TV i can choose which CEC commands it has to send. I've simply disabled 'Off via Link' to solve the problem you mentioned. Maybe something to look for on your TV set.

 

Looking forward to the results. It's 00.12AM here, i'm going horizontal.

[robdrums2097]

Ok, I tried flipping between HDMI & optical (via both OSX settings & BP settings) and could discern no difference in behaviour. Unfortunately my receiver does not have the capability of telling me what bitrate is coming in, but Bitperfect itself seemed to be changing as it should and there was no interruption to the sound coming out. I can also detect no real difference in quality between the two. So maybe HDMI is the way to go.

 

And yeah, my TV lets me control the link functions it uses too. But the thing is that for every other input I want it to do that and it makes it easier for the wife to operate. So for the occasional time it causes me a problem, I can live with it. :-)

 

Hope this helps.

 

Rob

[Neve]

Thanks Rob :-)

 

The Mini should be here in a few days. I'll post my findings once things are all setup.

 

Hugo