Networking problems with streaming through renderer

[jrobbins50]

Folks, this one has me stumped.

 

Objective: to stream 2ch audio off my Synology DS1813+ NAS via Ethernet to my Bel Canto REFStream Renderer using minimserver and bubbleUPnP to bypass my music server entirely.

 

Statement of the problem: Although the NAS reports that minimserver, bubbleUPnP and Java 7 are all up and running, the renderer does not appear as an available choice in any control software I have tried -- to wit, Audionet iMM, Linn Kinsky and PlugPlayer for iOS (on an iPhone 6+) or Auralic DS Lightning, Linn Kinsky or PlugPlayer on Android (on an Asus MeMO ME176CX-A1-BK tablet).

 

My network setup: NAS and renderer are connected to each other via CAT5E cabling through a Netgear ProSafePlus giga switch, which is also connected to an Asus RT-AC68U router configured in media bridge mode. This is because my major audio system is on my home's lower level and my main router, another RT-AC68U connected to my cable modem, is on the first level of the home and I don't have dedicated cabling between the floors. While I think it irrelevant to the issues at hand, I should mention that the switch is also ethernet connected to my AppleTV, my Oppo 95 player, my Marantz AV-7702, my CAPSZuma music server and another Windows 7 PC.

 

Synology setup: running DSM 5.2 of latest version. Package center shows three installed programs running: BubbleUPnP Server 0.9, Java Manager 1.7.0_79 and MinimServer 0.83.

 

BubbleUPnP setup: status page indicates internet connectivity for both the HTTP and HTTPS ports. On the media servers tab, for MinimServer, I have the "make this media server available in BubbleUPnP to Android for internet access" box checked. On the media renderer tab, the Belcanto Renderer-160 is there. I've checked the boxes for "create an OpenHome renderer" and "gapless playback." I named the rendered with "OHM" on the end so I could identify it in control software.

 

MinimServer setup: status page shows it running and the correct directory (in my case, /volume1/Media) for content is selected. However, MinimWatch running on a PC with Windows10 in another part of my house is greyed out and thus doesn't see MinimServer across the network.

 

Router setup: I have port forwarding established for the HTTP 58050 port into the LAN IP address for the NAS on the same port number. Same as to the HTTPS 58051 port.

 

I can play and control music files via JRiver through JRemote on my iPhone through my CAPSZuma server outfitted with Windows Server 2012R and Audiophile Optimizer in core mode. So, I know that the NAS is indeed being seen across the network for those purposes.

 

So, why isn't the ethernet streaming working, crew? Thanks in advance for the help. Cheers. JCR

[Cebolla]

Hi,

 

First thing to check with UPnP/DLNA (& even Apple's AirPlay) connectivity/discovery issues, is whether your router(s) and other network management devices are forwarding multicast packets properly. UDP multicast is used by UPnP (& AirPlay) devices to discover each other on the network. For example, a classic scenario is a router having a problem in not forwarding this multicast data between wired & wireless portions of the network - so wireless UPnP devices can see other wireless UPnP devices, but not wired connected ones and vice versa.

 

As sometimes happens, your issue appears to have been mentioned on some very recent posts on another thread, ie, specifically Asus RT-AC68U routers having issues with UDP multicast. You may be in luck as the latest version of the firmware appears to have fixed the problem, if those posts are anything to go by. See here & following responses:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/auralic-lightning-ds-app-software-impressions-and-information-21262/index58.html#post454228

 

John

[DavidL]

Maybe totally irrelevant but from your description it appears you have 2 routers both potentially distributing IP addresses. Are you using one in 'slave' mode? If not confusion could occur.

My setup is very similar to yours but I have a pair of Airport Extremes instead of your Asus RT-68us, with a NetGear switch connected to each.

By the way have you done a network scan from your control device (iPhone)?

[jrobbins50]

Maybe totally irrelevant but from your description it appears you have 2 routers both potentially distributing IP addresses. Are you using one in 'slave' mode? If not confusion could occur.

My setup is very similar to yours but I have a pair of Airport Extremes instead of your Asus RT-68us, with a NetGear switch connected to each.

By the way have you done a network scan from your control device (iPhone)?

 

Cebolla and DavidL -- thank you both for your assistance.

 

I reconfirmed that my two Asus routers are both running the latest firmware, to wit:

 

3.0.0.4.378_4585

 

I do have the second Asus router media bridge mode, which is to say slave.

 

Now, this said, I have two other wireless routers in the house -- one on the second level of the home at the back and one on the same lower level as the main stereo and switch, but on the other end of the house. They are not Asus products. They are Netgear EX6200 AC1200 WiFi Range Extenders. They do produce a different wireless name with the Asus, to wit:

 

...24

...24_EXT

...5

...5_EXT

 

with 2.4 and 5 GHz as noted and EXT being the Netgear names.

 

At first, DavidL's comment made me think that there was a conflict here perhaps. But, I have five Sonos uPNP renderers -- ZP90s or Sonos Connect, I believe. They are scattered throughout our home (shout out to streaming TIDAL) and must be connecting into the network through different points. Yet, the iOS and Android software I ran above sees all of them across the house on the network together.

 

Advanced IP Scanner on a PC sees the Sonos boxes and the LAN IP address for the NAS. I see no conflicts in there. I guess I don't know how one runs a network scan on an iPhone or Android device -- just never done that. The network scanner in the main Asus router (that is, not the slave) also shows the Sonos boxes and the NAS LAN.

 

One final clue. My laptop PC on the second floor of the house -- connected wirelessly into the network via the main Asus router on the main floor -- cannot log into the NAS. But when I use a different PC on my lower level connecting into the slave Asus router plugged into the switch with the NAS, I can log into the NAS. This feels a bit like the issue that Cebolla raises -- but I don't know what to do or how to further test.

 

Stick with me crew! This is an intellectually challenging one! Thanks again for the help. JCR

[DavidL]

Your setup is relatively complex for a domestic network which makes it difficult to diagnose your problem.

 

Is it possible to simplify the network? For example could you set up wired ethernet between your non-portable devices on each of your 2 levels with only one wireless device on each level to enable communication with the other level and your mobile devices? You could then turn off the wireless functionality on the non-portable devices except 2.

 

If you can do this and the problem still remains the next step would be to strip back the network to its simplest form by disconnecting all devices not essential to music playback to see if first you can play locally and then remotely. You can then start adding devices incrementally - at some stage in this process the cause of your problem should be more obvious.

 

If you have not already read this it is worth doing so:

Computer Audiophile - Network Audio Refresher

[ted_b]

For me the biggest flag is the grey'd out Minimwatch. Try this: go into Synology Package Center and stop Minimserver (assuming it is running), then start it again. Go to Minimwatch and see if it now lights up (yellow or green). If so, go to a control point and report back.

 

I have had the occasional grey'd out Minimwatch and that is what I had to do. It is rare, but real.

[jrobbins50]

For me the biggest flag is the grey'd out Minimwatch. Try this: go into Synology Package Center and stop Minimserver (assuming it is running), then start it again. Go to Minimwatch and see if it now lights up (yellow or green). If so, go to a control point and report back.

 

I have had the occasional grey'd out Minimwatch and that is what I had to do. It is rare, but real.

 

OK, thanks to both of you. I have started with tedB's suggestion to restart Minimserver, which was running. Multiple restarts. No luck.

 

I uninstalled and reinstalled. No luck.

 

I installed Minimwatch on a different PC to see what would happen. This time, I got the red colored symbol and the error message in the Minimwatch log attached. Not sure what to do with it. This PC, too, is 64 bit, so I'm not sure why this error.

 

I will try DavidL's suggestions later today. Thanks. JCR

Minimwatch Log.txt

[kukynas]

I got similar setup to yours, NAS running bubbleupnp server with minimserver > router > renderer...iPad running Linn Kazoo...

as many people suggested to find root cause you should simplify your setup, I would suggest to connect your NAS and renderer into main router via LAN cable, connect your control unit (phone, tablet) to your main router (same as NAS and renderer) as well and try it again, there's too many devices connected to too many routers so it's hard to isolate potential problem with IP addresses, once you get connection between those 3 units make sure you will dedicate/reserve IP address to those 3 unit in your router to prevent future failures with lost visibility to your devices...

[jrobbins50]

I got similar setup to yours, NAS running bubbleupnp server with minimserver > router > renderer...iPad running Linn Kazoo...

as many people suggested to find root cause you should simplify your setup, I would suggest to connect your NAS and renderer into main router via LAN cable, connect your control unit (phone, tablet) to your main router (same as NAS and renderer) as well and try it again, there's too many devices connected to too many routers so it's hard to isolate potential problem with IP addresses, once you get connection between those 3 units make sure you will dedicate/reserve IP address to those 3 unit in your router to prevent future failures with lost visibility to your devices...

 

An excellent suggestion and I will try out at the end of this week when I am back home. I will report back to all. Thanks. JCR

[ted_b]

I would post this on Simon's forum (Minimserver). He can take a look at the log too.

[Cebolla]

Ted

 

I think you've been tricked into responding by our occasional, seemingly harmless spambot's post:

This time, I got the red colored symbol and the error message in the Minimwatch log attached.

It copies a small section of a previous post in the nominated thread, then (unsuccessfully) attaches a link to the end. The link isn't shown in the actual post, perhaps due to some corruption, but you can see some evidence of it if you go to the bot user's View Forum Posts section.

 

John

[ted_b]

Good heads up John, but my post still stands for the OP as well. The Minimserver developer (Simon) is very good at responding, and reads/troubleshoots the logs that users attach. True it may be that Minimserver is fine and the OP's issues are network-related, but I'd start there.

[jrobbins50]

Ted -- I will do the posting over at the Minimserver site. Thanks for the suggestion. JCR

[jrobbins50]

Crew, I can now confirm that I have everything up and running with your help and the additional technical support from BubbleSoft and my friend John Stronczer of Bel Canto. It was a network issue, for sure. By swapping the Asus router configured as a media bridge -- into which the NAS and renderer had been connected -- for the other one configured as a wireless router, it all connected up and is properly controlled through BubbleuPnP on my Asus tablet. Not only are files -- including DSF ones -- playing beautifully, but there really is quite the impressive sound with TIDAL steaming through the Bel Canto RefStream renderer using John's new 3.7 VBL power supply. Thanks for the help. Cheers. JCR

[jrobbins50]

One additional point. Turns out that it is important that the router have igmp snooping turned off for BubbleuPnP to properly see Minimserver. My router was properly off as default. However, my switch, into which everything was originally plugged, had igmp snooping enabled by default. While I've not gone back to my original setup, I now suspect it would work once correcting the setting in my switch. JCR

[MikeJazz]

Not only are files -- including DSF ones -- playing beautifully, but there really is quite the impressive sound with TIDAL steaming through the Bel Canto RefStream renderer using John's new 3.7 VBL power supply. Thanks for the help. Cheers. JCR

 

Good to hear you solve your problems.

 

This brought my attention to what looks like an interesting device.

The STFiber interface is a very interesting detail.

What are the DAC that can take advantage of that?

[jrobbins50]

I'm using a Bel Canto Dac3.5 modified by John Stronczer to upgrade the clock in it plus to add an ST fiber input. Sounds fabulous fed from the Bel Canto RefStream renderer.

 

One additional point I should clarify. I had been getting a grey out on Minimwatch. Simon from Minimserver helped me sort this out. My Windows firewall was blocking two Java SE apps. When unblocking, Minimwatch went green and is now functioning properly. JCR

[baconbrain]

 

First thing to check with UPnP/DLNA (& even Apple's AirPlay) connectivity/discovery issues, is whether your router(s) and other network management devices are forwarding multicast packets properly.

 

I am having similar issues with my Aries and was wondering how one goes about checking if multicast packets are forwarded properly? Auralic suppport recommended activating IGMP snooping, but when reading this thread it sounds like the opposite may be the case. Thx.

[jrobbins50]

I am having similar issues with my Aries and was wondering how one goes about checking if multicast packets are forwarded properly? Auralic suppport recommended activating IGMP snooping, but when reading this thread it sounds like the opposite may be the case. Thx.

 

I've attached screenshots of the places in my router and switch where IGMP snooping is controlled. Hopefully, this will help you locate the same in your own products. JCR

[baconbrain]

I've attached screenshots of the places in my router and switch where IGMP snooping is controlled. Hopefully, this will help you locate the same in your own products. JCR

 

Thanks for the images. Unfortunately I am using a different router, ap, and switch combination. But for the sake of general understanding, I guess one should only enable IGMP snooping if the appropriate multicast groups have been defined / managed. Correct?

[jrobbins50]

I'm no network expert, so I must leave it to others here to say when you would turn on IGMP snooping. What I can confirm is that shutting it off was part of making my renderer in openhome format and MinimServer pop up instantly when starting up BubbleuPnP on my tablet. JCR