DSD-wide (8-bit) test files

[mansr]

Does anyone know where one might find DSF files containing 8-bit DSD-wide data for testing purposes?

[audiventory]

Are you want try 8 bit compatible DSD DAC?

[mansr]

I'm toying with some software and would like to see how 8-bit data behaves. It appears to be a format used more during production than for distribution, so the usual suspects don't have any samples for download.

[audiventory]

I'm toying with some software and would like to see how 8-bit data behaves. It appears to be a format used more during production than for distribution, so the usual suspects don't have any samples for download.

 

Mansr, thank you for information.

[Hiro]

I'm toying with some software and would like to see how 8-bit data behaves. It appears to be a format used more during production than for distribution, so the usual suspects don't have any samples for download.

 

I've seen how 5-bit delta sigma audio behaves (as 2L Records' ADC is front-ended with such a modulator) when it comes to its bandwidth, and it was very similar to today's DSD 128 & 256 formats.

[audiventory]

For any audio applications we need (if talk about resolution):

 

1. 0 ... 20 kHz frequency range,

 

2. Noise floor in this range.

 

That above 20 kHz apparatus can eliminate without sound quality troubles.

 

Main part of DSD quality is noise management (push noise out 20 kHz).

 

N-bit in DSD is one of dimensions of the noise management.

 

We can reduce noise next ways:

 

1. More sample rate

 

2. More complex noise shaper in sigma delta modulator

 

3. More bits per sample

 

 

1. and 2. points both lead to more demands of calculation power.

 

1. and 3. points both lead to increasing storage area.

[mansr]

I'm aware of those things. A multi-bit also format has the additional advantage of enabling some DSP operations, which is probably the main reason for using DSD-wide.

 

Now I was looking at the DSF spec and noticed it allows 8-bit data, so I wanted to find a sample to play with. If none exist, so be it.

[audiventory]

1 bit DSD processed fully identically multibit DSD.

 

However multibit allow decrease sample rate with keeping of quality. It can give decreasing of demand in computing power.

[mansr]

I know all of that. I was looking for an actual file to test some software.

[Miska]

Now I was looking at the DSF spec and noticed it allows 8-bit data, so I wanted to find a sample to play with. If none exist, so be it.

 

No, DSF doesn't support 8-bit data. There is just one parameter telling bit order within a byte, whether oldest bit is in MSB or LSB.

[audiventory]

See http://dsd-guide.com/sites/default/files/white-papers/DSFFileFormatSpec_E.pdf

 

Page 3 (bottom) "Bits per sample". Can have value 1 or 8. And details in annotation 4.

[Jud]

To make things perhaps more clear: mansr is adding DSD processing to Sox open source software, and wants "DSD-wide" files to check that it works properly.

[Miska]

Page 3 (bottom) "Bits per sample". Can have value 1 or 8. And details in annotation 4.

 

Yes, the item name is completely misleading, but the annotation is clear. There are both types of files around, with oldest bits in MSB or LSBs. It's the same stuff ASIO also has. However, ASIO has third variant which is the 8-bit sample format.

[Miska]

To make things perhaps more clear: mansr is adding DSD processing to Sox open source software, and wants "DSD-wide" files to check that it works properly.

 

That requires some other file format. I whink WAV would do fine for that purpose.

[mansr]

Yes, the item name is completely misleading, but the annotation is clear. There are both types of files around, with oldest bits in MSB or LSBs. It's the same stuff ASIO also has. However, ASIO has third variant which is the 8-bit sample format.

 

In that case, do you have any samples with oldest bit in MSB?

[mansr]

That requires some other file format. I whink WAV would do fine for that purpose.

 

What makes you say that? My code is working fine.

[Miska]

What makes you say that? My code is working fine.

 

I don't have doubts on that, just the neither DSDIFF nor DSF support DSD-wide.

[Miska]

In that case, do you have any samples with oldest bit in MSB?

 

You can easily make one yourself by taking bytes as-is from DSDIFF which uses that bit order, you'll just need to rearrange to the different data layout.

[mansr]

I don't have doubts on that, just the neither DSDIFF nor DSF support DSD-wide.

 

Sorry, I misunderstood you. DSDIFF definitely only supports 1-bit. If you're right about DSF not supporting 8-bit, that would obviously have to be stored in some other container. That also makes this spec a strong contender for the most misleading I've ever seen.

[mansr]

You can easily make one yourself by taking bytes as-is from DSDIFF which uses that bit order, you'll just need to rearrange to the different data layout.

 

Of course I could do that, but I prefer testing code using input files from an unrelated source. Otherwise I might end up with bugs on both ends that happen to cancel out.

[Miska]

Of course I could do that, but I prefer testing code using input files from an unrelated source. Otherwise I might end up with bugs on both ends that happen to cancel out.

 

Would this be good enough for testing purposes?

 

http://www.sonarnerd.net/tmp/dsf-msb.zip

[mansr]

Would this be good enough for testing purposes?

 

http://www.sonarnerd.net/tmp/dsf-msb.zip

 

Thanks, I'll try it out. Where did that file come from?

[Miska]

Thanks, I'll try it out. Where did that file come from?

 

It is from my code, just few seconds of RedBook converted to DSD. (I have support for both bit orders)

[mansr]

It is from my code, just few seconds of RedBook converted to DSD. (I have support for both bit orders)

 

How did you figure out that "8 bits per sample" in the spec actually means "MSB first"? Are there other such file around?

[Miska]

How did you figure out that "8 bits per sample" in the spec actually means "MSB first"? Are there other such file around?

 

Did you check the Annotation 4 section in the spec referred to by Audiventory earlier? That describes the field in more detail.

 

[Annotation4]

For example, if dsd stream data is 0x00, 0x01, 0x02, 0x03, 0x04....., then this is the sample data in data

chunk.

If “Bits per sample” is equal to 1, then store the data as LSB(Least Significant Bit) first.

0x00, 0x80, 0x40, 0xC0, 0x20, ....

(00000000, 10000000, 01000000, 11000000, 00100000, ....)

If “Bits per sample” is equal to 8, then store the data as MSB(Most Significant Bit) first.

0x00, 0x01, 0x02, 0x03, 0x04.....

(00000000, 00000001, 00000010, 00000011, 00000100, ....)