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Ultimate NAA/Roon endpoint/AirPlay receiver etc


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https://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/Faqs.htm

 

Windows 10 IoT Core turned out to be free

 

https://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupMBM.htm

 

The image itself is under 1GB, and it does have support for USB Audio as well as Ethernet etc.

 

https://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SupportedInterfaces.htm

 

The entire OS should be fairly barebone, could that be even more compact when compared to Server Core mode of 2012 R2 and stripped down Windows 8 Embedded?

 

No desktop mode but remote administration could be done via PowerShell

 

https://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/samples/PowerShell.htm

 

https://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/tools/CommandLineUtils.htm

 

$139 for Minnowboard Max, then add $49 for the 5V version of iFi iPower

 

http://ifi-audio.com/portfolio-view/accessory-ipower/

 

Let's say ASIO driver could also work for that barebone (come on, it's free) OS, would that work well as NAA by any chance?

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https://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/Faqs.htm

 

Windows 10 IoT Core turned out to be free

 

https://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupMBM.htm

 

The image itself is under 1GB, and it does have support for USB Audio as well as Ethernet etc.

 

https://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SupportedInterfaces.htm

 

The entire OS should be fairly barebone, could that be even more compact when compared to Server Core mode of 2012 R2 and stripped down Windows 8 Embedded?

 

No desktop mode but remote administration could be done via PowerShell

 

https://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/samples/PowerShell.htm

 

https://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/tools/CommandLineUtils.htm

 

$139 for Minnowboard Max, then add $49 for the 5V version of iFi iPower

 

Accessory – iPower

 

Let's say ASIO driver could also work for that barebone (come on, it's free) OS, would that work well as NAA by any chance?

 

 

 

All sounds great. Let's see something turnkey with the same level of sound and functionality of Windows 8 embedded and I'll be all over it. Full ASIO driver support as well as headless control via IOS and Android for all apps mentioned in my first few thread posts are the big perks for me using this system.

 

Great example would be lets make it work as NAA for use with an Exasound E28 for 8 channel DSD 256. No problem with 3815 board and Windows embedded. Then it will be something worth talking about. If not, Linux is the next best option IMO.

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https://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/Faqs.htm

 

Windows 10 IoT Core turned out to be free

 

https://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SetupMBM.htm

 

The image itself is under 1GB, and it does have support for USB Audio as well as Ethernet etc.

 

https://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/SupportedInterfaces.htm

 

The entire OS should be fairly barebone, could that be even more compact when compared to Server Core mode of 2012 R2 and stripped down Windows 8 Embedded?

 

No desktop mode but remote administration could be done via PowerShell

 

https://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/samples/PowerShell.htm

 

https://ms-iot.github.io/content/en-US/win10/tools/CommandLineUtils.htm

 

$139 for Minnowboard Max, then add $49 for the 5V version of iFi iPower

 

Accessory – iPower

 

Let's say ASIO driver could also work for that barebone (come on, it's free) OS, would that work well as NAA by any chance?

 

Can the iPower supply enough current for the Minnowboard Max? The recommended ps is 5v 2.5A.

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Can the iPower supply enough current for the Minnowboard Max? The recommended ps is 5v 2.5A.

 

 

 

Based on the spec's of IFI power, it would be a bit shy.

 

Specification: Input: 100-240VAC

Output: 5V/2.1A; 9V/1.5A; 12V/1.1A

Output plug: 3.5×1.35mm; 4.0×1.7mm; 5.5×2.1mm; 5.5×2.5mm

Noise*: ~1uV

Size: 82x43x40 mm

Weight: 155g (with cable)

* Average audio band noise floor

 

 

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around what the Minnowmax has over the 3815:

 

 

http://www.minnowboard.org/meet-minnowboard-max/

 

Mini PC - Intel® NUC Board DE3815TYBE

 

You can buy the whole computer case and all for cheaper. And based on specs, I/O ability, 3 year warranty and legendary Intel industrial level build quality, not in the same league.

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Intel-Thin-Can.../dp/B00LPLQD04

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Can the iPower supply enough current for the Minnowboard Max? The recommended ps is 5v 2.5A.
http://wiki.minnowboard.org/MinnowBoard_MAX
We recommend you use at least a 2.5A power supply, based on a simple calculation of: 500mA (for USB2) + 900mA (for USB3) + 500mA (for core) + 500mA (for other peripherals) = 2400mA

That won't go over 2000mA when we don't draw 900mA via USB3 port. Therefore 2100mA from iFi iPower should be fine as long as we aren't connecting anything "crazy" to either USB2 / USB3 ports.

 

If we really need to connect something like a keyboard / a mouse temporarily, maybe something like a self-powered USB hub is a good idea. For the USB cable between Minnowboard Max and the hub, we could even tape that +5V pin just to be safe:

 

D11ll.jpg

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http://wiki.minnowboard.org/MinnowBoard_MAX

That won't go over 2000mA when we don't draw 900mA via USB3 port. Therefore 2100mA from iFi iPower should be fine as long as we aren't connecting anything "crazy" to either USB2 / USB3 ports.

 

If we really need to connect something like a keyboard / a mouse temporarily, maybe something like a self-powered USB hub is a good idea. For the USB cable between Minnowboard Max and the hub, we could even tape that +5V pin just to be safe:

 

D11ll.jpg

 

Yes I see what your saying. That's right. 2.5 amps is based on all I/O maxed out. But still can't see besides SD card and 5V input what this board has over the 3815?

 

Sure SD card is nice but slow as a snail. By the time you build the board into an enclosure, a high speed 32gb SATA 3.0 SDD connected to the 3815 would be cheaper. DDR3 8GB RAM possibility is great too.

 

 

Hard to beat Intel's virtual bios and advanced embedded 8 support as well.

 

For dedicated Linux NAA off SD card and IFI power yes maybe, but I don't think better for Win embedded 8 application.

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If you have $133 to spare, pickup one of these cheap units and try for yourself. It can alway used as a dedicated Linux based NAA if you decide you don't like the Windows embedded.

 

Thanks for the idea, but I have a BeagleBoard configured as an NAA running Linux, which I did to get HQP on the upstairs desktop to feed the main system downstairs. It worked to proof of concept stage with a Dragonfly, though there was noise coming from somewhere, maybe Wi-Fi, maybe SMPS power supply, maybe something funky with the board.

 

Miska then brought out an OS X version that allowed me to use my laptop in the downstairs system without an NAA, so I set the project aside. Very possibly may take it up again when Uptone's new power supply makes the iPower spare. (The 9v will work for the 5v BeagleBoard, yes?) Or I could finish a power supply project I have lying around half done.

 

If it's the BeagleBoard that's causing the noise, that ODroid looks interesting.

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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Sure SD card is nice but slow as a snail. By the time you build the board into an enclosure, a high speed 32gb SATA 3.0 SDD connected to the 3815 would be cheaper.

 

I find that active SATA interfaces are a detriment to SQ. I think the best currently for speed, SQ, and modest storage is PCIe Flash memory (and I don't mean mSATA or M.2). Looking forward to seeing those offered on small form factor CPU boards. But it won't be on the cheap ones for a long time if ever.

 

BTW, why the talk of using an SMPS wall-wart (the iPower) for your project? I thought you were aiming for very best performance. Or are you now just trying to keep cost very low? Guess I'm confused.

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Thanks for the idea, but I have a BeagleBoard configured as an NAA running Linux, which I did to get HQP on the upstairs desktop to feed the main system downstairs. It worked to proof of concept stage with a Dragonfly, though there was noise coming from somewhere, maybe Wi-Fi, maybe SMPS power supply, maybe something funky with the board.

 

Miska then brought out an OS X version that allowed me to use my laptop in the downstairs system without an NAA, so I set the project aside. Very possibly may take it up again when Uptone's new power supply makes the iPower spare. (The 9v will work for the 5v BeagleBoard, yes?) Or I could finish a power supply project I have lying around half done.

 

If it's the BeagleBoard that's causing the noise, that ODroid looks interesting.

 

 

 

If for dedicated Linux NAA use I think seeteeyou's suggestion of minnowboard combined with IFI power would be a great alternative.

 

But the Fitlet-B Bibo suggested is perhaps the ultimate solution for both Linux and Embedded 8. Power consumption is low enough for IFI power as well. I can see why it's backordered until Sept 30th.

 

I'm very excited to get one of them. In fact I'm probably going to order 5 once I can.

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I find that active SATA interfaces are a detriment to SQ. I think the best currently for speed, SQ, and modest storage is PCIe Flash memory (and I don't mean mSATA or M.2). Looking forward to seeing those offered on small form factor CPU boards. But it won't be on the cheap ones for a long time if ever.

 

BTW, why the talk of using an SMPS wall-wart (the iPower) for your project? I thought you were aiming for very best performance. Or are you now just trying to keep cost very low? Guess I'm confused.

 

 

 

I suppose the system being able to operate smoothly would be an important factor as well. I'm not sure if using an SD card for operating system would be fast enough for anything but Linux NAA application. Great part about the Fitlet is it has both so a person could try both and see the difference. I have PCI-E flash in my broadwell NUC and I agree it's awesome. But at this price point not an option.

 

Some of these new advanced SMPS can be very good. This is why companies like Nagra use them in their high end DAC's and Hypex for their high end amps. IFI claims their's can outperform competitive LPS supplies, but I haven't tried yet. I suppose it's a possibility they may be right, I'll have to try one to find out.

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I find that active SATA interfaces are a detriment to SQ. I think the best currently for speed, SQ, and modest storage is PCIe Flash memory (and I don't mean mSATA or M.2). Looking forward to seeing those offered on small form factor CPU boards. But it won't be on the cheap ones for a long time if ever.

 

BTW, why the talk of using an SMPS wall-wart (the iPower) for your project? I thought you were aiming for very best performance. Or are you now just trying to keep cost very low? Guess I'm confused.

 

 

 

I will also add the 3815 board has an onboard 4gb flash chip for linux application. According to Miska, this is superior to SD card. So great experiment for me to try will be Linux NAA on flash chip vs Windows embedded NAA off SSD with my current system.

 

This board may turn out being the all around champ for both operating systems.

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I suppose the system being able to operate smoothly would be an important factor as well. I'm not sure if using an SD card for operating system would be fast enough for anything but Linux NAA application.

 

I'm quite sure I did not say anything about SD cards. I was speaking about ultra-fast PCIe flash and how it allows us, for a price, to leave behind SATA.

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I'm quite sure I did not say anything about SD cards. I was speaking about ultra-fast PCIe flash and how it allows us, for a price, to leave behind SATA.

 

 

 

Oh sorry I must have mis-read what you said. Thought the SQ was SD.

 

Yes probably. Next best of not the equal would be a flash chip like is built on to the Intel 3815 board. Slap a $10 stick of ram in this board and it's ready to be a no compromise Linux based NAA. Plug a $30 SSD in and ready to be a fully functional system for all other audio applications besides heavy weight HQplayer tasks.

 

Hard to go wrong for the price. I can already say the sound with SSD is exceptional. Can't want to try Linux NAA from the flash chip! :)

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If for dedicated Linux NAA use I think seeteeyou's suggestion of minnowboard combined with IFI power would be a great alternative.

 

But the Fitlet-B Bibo suggested is perhaps the ultimate solution for both Linux and Embedded 8. Power consumption is low enough for IFI power as well. I can see why it's backordered until Sept 30th.

 

I'm very excited to get one of them. In fact I'm probably going to order 5 once I can.

On my Fitlet I tried AudioLinux, which is an audio oriented RT version of ArchLinux, and WinServer, just Ethernet IN and USB OUT. Why don't you try Win 10 Embedded (IoT) instead of Win 8 Emb.?

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On my Fitlet I tried AudioLinux, which is an audio oriented RT version of ArchLinux, and WinServer, just Ethernet IN and USB OUT. Why don't you try Win 10 Embedded (IoT) instead of Win 8 Emb.?

 

I don't know how I'm going to get all of the apps I use work and output ASIO on Windows 10 IoT.

 

Not sure if it's even possible

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I see...

 

If it can be of use to you, I was able to power the Fitlet-B (only mSD, 4GB DDR3L, Ethernet, USB) with DC 12V/1.25A, although I would recommend more especially with GUI.

 

 

 

I think to be on the safe side with the Intel 3815 board, a 2A at 12VDC supply should be used. However I have used it with a 1 amp supply and it ran, but I wouldn't recommend it.

 

I am just working on how to install the Linux version of the NAA Daemon on the 4gb flash chip. I haven't done it before but I'm itching to hear how it sounds compared to windows embedded on my Sata SSD. Only problem is it will only work for NAA. For Tidal, Roon, and jriver controlled headless from IOS app, I'll have to reboot from SSD for Windows embedded.

 

But if the sound kills the Windows embedded NAA Daemon, It just might not be rebooted for a while :)

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Most notably this:

Minnowboard:MinnowMax - eLinux.org

 

(so you can modify the design, etc)

 

But in addition, the IO's, like GPIO, I2S, I2C, etc.

 

Ok. How high of sampling rate can it go up to and how many channels out of the I2S?

 

Does it actually sound good out of the onboard I2S? It's it really useable for high end audio?

 

The Intel 3815 has a massive amount of IO as well. Tons of stuff in the custom solutions header like I2C GPIO etc. Although for audio purposes I wouldn't use it anyways.

 

Onboard 4gb Flash is a big bonus though to install your NAA on.

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If for dedicated Linux NAA use I think seeteeyou's suggestion of minnowboard combined with IFI power would be a great alternative.

 

But the Fitlet-B Bibo suggested is perhaps the ultimate solution for both Linux and Embedded 8.

 

If the BeagleBoard turns out to be wonky, I just need something that has a decent Ethernet input from the computer (ODroid has gigabit) and USB output to the DAC (which ODroid has), preferably small (which ODroid is) and cheap (which ODroid definitely is :) ). Thanks to you and bibo for suggesting "the ultimate," but ultimate isn't what I'm looking for at the moment. :)

One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller

The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein

Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature.

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