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Sonore μRendu


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That is an Uptone Audio Regen connected to the Sonore Audiobyte. The Regen doesn't re-clock the Sonore Audiobyte....it regenerates the USB signal.

 

It doesn't reclock the USB signal, it regenerates the signal based on it's internal clock... I think we were talking about the same thing, but my choice of words may be amateur. It also breaks the PC power leg and matches impedance better, and that the results are lovely :-) I understand the signal flow none the less, the USB from the Regen(wrongly thought by me to be the Teradak USB Isolator) feeds the USB-IN on the Sonore/Audiobyte board. Then the Sonore/Audiobyte outputs the I2s signals, and then it goes on.

 

After looking at the picture again, I guess I got them mixed up after looking at too many small, USB PCB add-ons :-(

 

Thanks for filling me in, Jesus. This is looking like a cool little thing and I'm excited to hear more release details. Specifically, what were the shortcomings of the Orbiter that lead to this? The non-specialized/excess, unused parts on the motherboard? From comments the Sonic Orbiter was a good piece of equipment.

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Could someone explain how this works as a Roon speaker/ endpoint? Is the Roon software is downloaded to the urendu although it has a proprietary operating system. Could you also use a remote PC as I am doing now to listen to music in another location?

 

Also I had been looking at the Signature Rendu because my DAC, (Aqua La Scala) has a IS2 connection which could be modified to connect to it. However a post above seem to say it would not work with the Roon software. Could someone confirm this? - Thanks

Roon software, Lenovo TS 440 server, IPad Air 2 for remote control and Dell 2340T display, Dell Latitude 7140 tablet (Windows 8.1, 256 SSD and 8 GB RAM) with Dell docking station, Aqua Hifi LaScala mk ii DAC, Allnic L 5000 DHT preamp, Shaker Logic Attune with two outputs for the amplifiers, Vitus SS-101 mk ii amp, Bosendorfer VC-7 speakers and Focal Sub Utopia Be subwoofer.

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Could someone explain how this works as a Roon speaker/ endpoint? Is the Roon software is downloaded to the urendu although it has a proprietary operating system. Could you also use a remote PC as I am doing now to listen to music in another location?

 

I'm pretty sure the urendu software is a proprietary linux solution, and that the RoonSpeaker code will be included, which will mean you can select it as output in any Roon client you happen to be using.

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Could someone explain how this works as a Roon speaker/ endpoint? Is the Roon software is downloaded to the urendu although it has a proprietary operating system. Could you also use a remote PC as I am doing now to listen to music in another location?

 

Also I had been looking at the Signature Rendu because my DAC, (Aqua La Scala) has a IS2 connection which could be modified to connect to it. However a post above seem to say it would not work with the Roon software. Could someone confirm this? - Thanks

 

Yes it would be cool if they could add Roonspeaker as well as NAA endpoint capabilities to their Signature Rendu. If so I would buy one today.

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Yes it would be cool if they could add Roonspeaker as well as NAA endpoint capabilities to their Signature Rendu. If so I would buy one today.

 

Well I'm pretty sure the new µRendu will have all the s/w features detailed on Sonore's Sonic Orbiter page . And I believe the (Fedora-based) Orbiter OS is a collaboration between Andrew Gillis (VortexBox/Small Green Computer) and Jesus of Sonore. They have worked REALLY hard on that OS and are at the leading edge of supporting network audio server s/w, controllers, and endpoints.

 

But the Signature Rendu (Ethernet>S/PDIF or I2S) is probably never going to to get NAA abilities as it is not a Linux-running computer, and the renderer processor it does have is not something Miska would ever port the NAA to.

 

That said, I am almost more excited by the µRendu than by my own forthcoming PS product (note I said almost) ;).

I can't wait to get one for myself!

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Well I'm pretty sure the new µRendu will have all the s/w features detailed on Sonore's Sonic Orbiter page . And I believe the (Fedora-based) Orbiter OS is a collaboration between Andrew Gillis (VortexBox/Small Green Computer) and Jesus of Sonore. They have worked REALLY hard on that OS and are at the leading edge of supporting network audio server s/w, controllers, and endpoints.

 

But the Signature Rendu (Ethernet>S/PDIF or I2S) is probably never going to to get NAA abilities as it is not a Linux-running computer, and the renderer processor it does have is not something Miska would ever port the NAA to.

 

That said, I am almost more excited by the µRendu than by my own forthcoming PS product (note I said almost) ;).

I can't wait to get one for myself!

 

I'm going to buy the Microrendu as well. But I want a "gold standard" external I2S reference in my arsenal.

 

Being able to use it as a NAA, would be key after discovering the benefit of Miska's powerful upsampling/modulating algorithms.

 

The USB interface on my DAC (although one of the best USB implementations out there) is just too compromised to reap the full rewards from the Microrendu.

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Could someone explain how this works as a Roon speaker/ endpoint? Is the Roon software is downloaded to the urendu although it has a proprietary operating system. Could you also use a remote PC as I am doing now to listen to music in another location?

 

Also I had been looking at the Signature Rendu because my DAC, (Aqua La Scala) has a IS2 connection which could be modified to connect to it. However a post above seem to say it would not work with the Roon software. Could someone confirm this? - Thanks

 

The Sig Rendu won't work as a Roon platform. The microRendu is going to have the as yet unreleased Roon Speakers software installed on it, which will enable it to playback from a Roon server.

Main listening (small home office):

Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments.

Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three .

Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup.
Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. 

All absolute statements about audio are false :)

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Could someone explain how this works as a Roon speaker/ endpoint? Is the Roon software is downloaded to the urendu although it has a proprietary operating system. Could you also use a remote PC as I am doing now to listen to music in another location?

 

Also I had been looking at the Signature Rendu because my DAC, (Aqua La Scala) has a IS2 connection which could be modified to connect to it. However a post above seem to say it would not work with the Roon software. Could someone confirm this? - Thanks

 

Hey Slingshot, I have a La Voce S2 with I2S, what type of work needs to be done to the I2S to work with digital sources that are not La Vida (cd transport)?

Ryzen 3900x Roon Core PC -> Intel i9900k HQPlayer W10 machine -> iFi Zen Stream NAA

Holo May KTE, Benchmark LA4 preamp

SMC Audio upgraded DNA-125 Amp

Dynaudio Confidence C2 Platinum speakers

Vinyl rig - Schiit Sol, Nagaoka MP-500, Mod Squad PhonoDrive phono stage

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Hey Slingshot, I have a La Voce S2 with I2S, what type of work needs to be done to the I2S to work with digital sources that are not La Vida (cd transport)?

 

The manufacturer, Aqua said they could modify it but i don't want to ship it back to Italy. As i have roon looks like urendu is the way to go. I love mine and I assume you do also.

Roon software, Lenovo TS 440 server, IPad Air 2 for remote control and Dell 2340T display, Dell Latitude 7140 tablet (Windows 8.1, 256 SSD and 8 GB RAM) with Dell docking station, Aqua Hifi LaScala mk ii DAC, Allnic L 5000 DHT preamp, Shaker Logic Attune with two outputs for the amplifiers, Vitus SS-101 mk ii amp, Bosendorfer VC-7 speakers and Focal Sub Utopia Be subwoofer.

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Hey Slingshot, I have a La Voce S2 with I2S, what type of work needs to be done to the I2S to work with digital sources that are not La Vida (cd transport)?

 

 

 

I'm not slingshot, but I do know a solution for the question you asked. Besides buying another renderer with I2S. It will take a bit of DIY work though. Buy a high end USB to I2S interface and connect it to an I2S over LVDS sender board. But in order for this to be worth while doing, the USB interface must be superior to what's used in theLa Voce S2 already. It looks like their stock USB interface uses an older gen Xmos chip for USB. So improving upon that should be easy. Another option that would probably be better is just to retrofit a better USB interface right into the unit. Looks like the modular form factor of the DAC should easily allow for that.

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I'm not slingshot, but I do know a solution for the question you asked. Besides buying another renderer with I2S. It will take a bit of DIY work though. Buy a high end USB to I2S interface and connect it to an I2S over LVDS sender board. But in order for this to be worth while doing, the USB interface must be superior to what's used in theLa Voce S2 already. It looks like their stock USB interface uses an older gen Xmos chip for USB. So improving upon that should be easy. Another option that would probably be better is just to retrofit a better USB interface right into the unit. Looks like the modular form factor of the DAC should easily allow for that.

 

Blizzard, I was mainly curious about connecting another I2S device to the I2S input on La Voce (or La Scala, it would seem they are similar in this regard). Are you saying the above steps are necessary even for I2S devices like uRender? Or were you talking more along the lines of getting any other digital device (one which presumably would not have an I2S output) to communicate with the I2S port on La Voce?

 

To be honest this seems a little bit above my pay grade, regardless. I'm currently using a Regen into the USB input on the DAC and it sounds very good to me. Is there any sort of reference I can read regarding the merits of I2S and/or AES/EBU vs USB? I'm assuming they must be worth the hassle, but I'm not sure of the "why" in this case.

Ryzen 3900x Roon Core PC -> Intel i9900k HQPlayer W10 machine -> iFi Zen Stream NAA

Holo May KTE, Benchmark LA4 preamp

SMC Audio upgraded DNA-125 Amp

Dynaudio Confidence C2 Platinum speakers

Vinyl rig - Schiit Sol, Nagaoka MP-500, Mod Squad PhonoDrive phono stage

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Actually, I may have missed slingshot's original point!

 

He was referring to the Signature Rendu which does NOT have an I2S input. But, uRender does, therefore - does anything need to be done to an Aqua DAC if one had plans to purchase the uRender and hook it up via I2S to the I2S input on the Aqua DAC?

Ryzen 3900x Roon Core PC -> Intel i9900k HQPlayer W10 machine -> iFi Zen Stream NAA

Holo May KTE, Benchmark LA4 preamp

SMC Audio upgraded DNA-125 Amp

Dynaudio Confidence C2 Platinum speakers

Vinyl rig - Schiit Sol, Nagaoka MP-500, Mod Squad PhonoDrive phono stage

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Blizzard, I was mainly curious about connecting another I2S device to the I2S input on La Voce (or La Scala, it would seem they are similar in this regard). Are you saying the above steps are necessary even for I2S devices like uRender? Or were you talking more along the lines of getting any other digital device (one which presumably would not have an I2S output) to communicate with the I2S port on La Voce?

 

To be honest this seems a little bit above my pay grade, regardless. I'm currently using a Regen into the USB input on the DAC and it sounds very good to me. Is there any sort of reference I can read regarding the merits of I2S and/or AES/EBU vs USB? I'm assuming they must be worth the hassle, but I'm not sure of the "why" in this case.

 

 

 

 

The great thing about the La Voce having the I2S input is, I2S will always be the best way possible to interface with the DAC. But USB interfaces on the other hand are improving all the time. So as new renderer technology comes out that is far superior to the USB interface that was originally included, You can easily update the DAC to take advantage of this without modifying anything internally. IMO every DAC on the market should have one of these inputs. Since there is better USB interfaces available now, it's possible for you to upgrade right now going that route.

 

If what you want to do is to be able to interface with renderers like the Signature Rendu, You could build a simple HDMI to RJ45 adaptor. This would allow you to connect to any Renderer on the market that uses HDMI I2S rather than RJ45 without any mods to the DAC.

 

And as far as jitter is concerned for I2S over LVDS goes, MSBtech claim that the I2S has only 2% of the jitter of SPDIF. So it is really the undisputed "gold standard" of interfacing external devices to your DAC.

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Actually, I may have missed slingshot's original point!

 

He was referring to the Signature Rendu which does NOT have an I2S input. But, uRender does, therefore - does anything need to be done to an Aqua DAC if one had plans to purchase the uRender and hook it up via I2S to the I2S input on the Aqua DAC?

 

 

 

The signature Rendu does have an I2S output, not input. And the MicroRendu will only have USB.

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The signature Rendu does have an I2S output, not input. And the MicroRendu will only have USB.

 

Thanks for the clarification, I meant "output" but even still, I honestly thought uRender had I2S out - since that was my sole motivation, I suppose it will be a matter of saving up for a Signature. And that's where the converter comes in, now that I see how Signature Rendu transmits I2S - via HDMI. So, I think I'm all clear now - that didn't take long or anything :)

Ryzen 3900x Roon Core PC -> Intel i9900k HQPlayer W10 machine -> iFi Zen Stream NAA

Holo May KTE, Benchmark LA4 preamp

SMC Audio upgraded DNA-125 Amp

Dynaudio Confidence C2 Platinum speakers

Vinyl rig - Schiit Sol, Nagaoka MP-500, Mod Squad PhonoDrive phono stage

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Thanks for the clarification, I meant "output" but even still, I honestly thought uRender had I2S out - since that was my sole motivation, I suppose it will be a matter of saving up for a Signature. And that's where the converter comes in, now that I see how Signature Rendu transmits I2S - via HDMI. So, I think I'm all clear now - that didn't take long or anything :)

 

No problem. I find misconceptions extremely annoying. So by taking the time to thoroughly explain these details to you, other readers can also benefit with the knowledge.

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No problem. I find misconceptions extremely annoying. So by taking the time to thoroughly explain these details to you, other readers can also benefit with the knowledge.

 

The great thing about the La Voce having the I2S input is, I2S will always be the best way possible to interface with the DAC. …... So it is really the undisputed "gold standard" of interfacing external devices to your DAC.

 

Well then perhaps we should address THAT misconception too. :)

 

The trouble with I2S (with or w/o LVDS) as an external interface is that you then put the master clock in the source. Nobody currently feeds the DAC master clock back out of their I2S input to slave the source. So the clocks on the I2S source better be darn good.

 

Now if you have PROPERLY done, internally mounted USB>I2S input board, i.e. one that slaves to the master clocks, then you can keep the delicate master clock signal a few millimeters from the DAC chips.

 

So Bliz, while I appreciate that you have discovered the USB-free virtues of I2S and are spreading the gospel, do be careful with generalizations about it being the be-all-end-all external interface for DACs. It's not--yet.

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Well then perhaps we should address THAT misconception too. :)

 

The trouble with I2S (with or w/o LVDS) as an external interface is that you then put the master clock in the source. Nobody currently feeds the DAC master clock back out of their I2S input to slave the source. So the clocks on the I2S source better be darn good.

 

Now if you have PROPERLY done, internally mounted USB>I2S input board, i.e. one that slaves to the master clocks, then you can keep the delicate master clock signal a few millimeters from the DAC chips.

 

So Bliz, while I appreciate that you have discovered the USB-free virtues of I2S and are spreading the gospel, do be careful with generalizations about it being the be-all-end-all external interface for DACs. It's not--yet.

 

Well of course any internally mounted interface will have an advantage over external. But we are talking about external renderers here.

 

With any external renderer I know of that has a I2S output option, it's the best option. I think Jesus would agree that his Sonore Rendu is his finest sounding renderer as well. And the best way to interface with it is via the I2S port. If your not going to do it properly, of course it wouldn't be good. But who wants to buy a improperly engineered system anyways?

 

Another thing is there's no stopping anyone from sending the master clock signal out the I2S port to slave the renderer. The I2S LVDS boards I have use pin 10 of the HDMI connector for master clock.

 

But yes I agree. The internal renderer approach is the best way things can be done. Which is why the industry is going that direction.

 

ImageUploadedByComputer Audiophile1439791582.860698.jpg

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Well then perhaps we should address THAT misconception too. :)

 

The trouble with I2S (with or w/o LVDS) as an external interface is that you then put the master clock in the source. Nobody currently feeds the DAC master clock back out of their I2S input to slave the source. So the clocks on the I2S source better be darn good.

 

Now if you have PROPERLY done, internally mounted USB>I2S input board, i.e. one that slaves to the master clocks, then you can keep the delicate master clock signal a few millimeters from the DAC chips.

 

So Bliz, while I appreciate that you have discovered the USB-free virtues of I2S and are spreading the gospel, do be careful with generalizations about it being the be-all-end-all external interface for DACs. It's not--yet.

Isn't I2S Pro interface by MSB Tech able to send DAC clock to transport?

Pro I2S Interface

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Isn't I2S Pro interface by MSB Tech able to send DAC clock to transport?

Pro I2S Interface

 

Alex just likes to try to make me look stupid. Only problem is he's not very good at it.

 

IMO msbtech has the I2S over LVDS dialed right in probably better than anyone.

 

With the custom FPGA programming I had done on my Resonessence labs Mirus, it doesn't even take the master from the source. When the I2S gets to the FPGA in the DAC, it's clocked to the master, then It converts the I2S LVDS to I2S CMOS internally in the FPGA. From there it's buffered into the RAM chip, and finally sent to the synchronously clocked DAC chip.

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Could someone explain how this works as a Roon speaker/ endpoint? Is the Roon software is downloaded to the urendu although it has a proprietary operating system. Could you also use a remote PC as I am doing now to listen to music in another location?

The Roon Speaker software would be included with the microRendu and you could have a remote PC send streams to the unit.

 

Also I had been looking at the Signature Rendu because my DAC, (Aqua La Scala) has a IS2 connection which could be modified to connect to it. However a post above seem to say it would not work with the Roon software. Could someone confirm this? - Thanks

The Sonore Signature Rendu does not support Roon streaming to it. The best things would be for Roon to add DLNA/UPNP support or use JRiver which is very well supported.

 

Jesus R

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I'm going to buy the Microrendu as well. But I want a "gold standard" external I2S reference in my arsenal.

 

Being able to use it as a NAA, would be key after discovering the benefit of Miska's powerful upsampling/modulating algorithms.

 

The USB interface on my DAC (although one of the best USB implementations out there) is just too compromised to reap the full rewards from the Microrendu.

 

 

I suppose what you can do since your DAC is Saber based is the Sonore microRendu into the Sonore Audiobyte USB interface.

 

Jesus R

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The Sig Rendu won't work as a Roon platform. The microRendu is going to have the as yet unreleased Roon Speakers software installed on it, which will enable it to playback from a Roon server.

 

Never say never....stranger things have happened:)

 

Jesus R

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