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Dcs vivaldi or rossini dac


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I have an opportunity to buy one or these.

Vivaldi is top of the line but Rossini is newer ,smaller and has a streamer built in.

It is also cheaper.

I have Debussy DAC and am looking for an upgrade.

Is there a major advantage of having an integrated streamer?

Right now I use Mac mini to watch Netflix movies and I am considering signing up for one of the music streaming services (tidal etc).

Thank you

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I have an opportunity to buy one or these.

Vivaldi is top of the line but Rossini is newer ,smaller and has a streamer built in.

It is also cheaper.

I have Debussy DAC and am looking for an upgrade.

Is there a major advantage of having an integrated streamer?

Right now I use Mac mini to watch Netflix movies and I am considering signing up for one of the music streaming services (tidal etc).

Thank you

 

Are you thinking of buying the whole Vivaldi stack? I heard it in Omaha, along with a set of Rockport mega-speakers, driven by a Dan D'Agostino amplifier. Sorry I can't recall specifics. What I heard was the most lifelike music playback I will likely ever encounter. I distinctly remember a simple jazz number with a female vocalist and a drummer during the part I heard. If felt like you could reach out and touch each individual drumhead in its own space, perfectly drawn. It was, in a word, incredible. We later heard Pink Floyd - Time SACD and that was absolutely sublime. Talk about being transported to a different dimension.

 

With that said, this was an easily half-million dollar system all-in (I was told the power cable to the D'Agostino was something like $37k just by itself). So, by all rights, the actual band should have been playing in the room at that point.

 

Regardless - I'm not one to judge, but that is one SERIOUS piece of kit to use for Netflix and TIDAL.

Ryzen 3900x Roon Core PC -> Intel i9900k HQPlayer W10 machine -> iFi Zen Stream NAA

Holo May KTE, Benchmark LA4 preamp

SMC Audio upgraded DNA-125 Amp

Dynaudio Confidence C2 Platinum speakers

Vinyl rig - Schiit Sol, Nagaoka MP-500, Mod Squad PhonoDrive phono stage

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On sound alone the Vivaldi is three levels above the Rossini which is at the Puccini level. The Vivaldi DAC is reference level - add the Master Clock and it's not even close.

 

The Rossini is probably more suitable to a more casual listening requirement.

 

What matters is the rest of the gear you plan to use with.

If you are using Vivaldi DAC level gear the Rossini is not at the same level.

Custom Win10 Transport | Mutec MC-3+ Smart Clock USB | Lampizator Amber | Acoustic Portrait Thiyaga | ATC SCM20 PSL

 

 

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On sound alone the Vivaldi is three levels above the Rossini which is at the Puccini level. The Vivaldi DAC is reference level - add the Master Clock and it's not even close.

 

The Rossini is probably more suitable to a more casual listening requirement.

 

What matters is the rest of the gear you plan to use with.

If you are using Vivaldi DAC level gear the Rossini is not at the same level.

 

This thread piqued my interest, for a moment I thought DCS had launched a "budget" range. Apparently though the Rossini is £18k, according to DCS "A premium-priced complete digital front end that replaces Puccini in the dCS range".

 

After spending that much on a source component, my listening requirements would be far from "casual"...

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On sound alone the Vivaldi is three levels above the Rossini which is at the Puccini level. The Vivaldi DAC is reference level - add the Master Clock and it's not even close.

 

The Rossini is probably more suitable to a more casual listening requirement.

 

What matters is the rest of the gear you plan to use with.

If you are using Vivaldi DAC level gear the Rossini is not at the same level.

 

+1

And to add to Nikhil's point about the rest of your gear, your Mac will be a weak link in your source and will constrain the Vivaldi.

 

If you're going to spend the money for a Vivaldi, I would suggest, if you haven't already done so, that you consider upgrading your server, and your source's ancillary power and isolation components, in order to fully capture the benefits of the Vivaldi.

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I've been to that place in Omaha - The Sound Environment. I was there a few weeks ago for a DAC shootout between my iFi iDSD Micro (yup), the great Playback Designs MPS-5, and the splendid DCS Vivaldi. They had the mighty Rockport Altairs and the D'Agostino Momentum amplifiers/preamplifier. The system was wired up with all Transparent cables. BTW - The guys at The Sound Environment are a *rare* combination of passion, experience, and knowledge - Just my $.02.

Anyway - I'm considering the Vivaldi, but wouldn't get the clock or upsampler initially. But as sweet as the Playback Designs MPS-5 DAC was, the Vivaldi crushed it with pure resolution and soundstage. And it's not just a detail factory, either. We could hear the top of a cello's body as a 3-dimensional sound source in all of its woody goodness being played by a skilled musician in Rachel Podger's latest DSD project - Beautiful.

What I learned was that the Vivaldi only supports DSD-64, though. So I'm hesitating on the Vivaldi purchase in order to hear the Boulder 2120 and the DCS Rossini, both of which support DSD-128, and neither of which are available for an audition at this time. Perhaps by RMAF...

Brian.

 

Are you thinking of buying the whole Vivaldi stack? I heard it in Omaha, along with a set of Rockport mega-speakers, driven by a Dan D'Agostino amplifier. Sorry I can't recall specifics. What I heard was the most lifelike music playback I will likely ever encounter. I distinctly remember a simple jazz number with a female vocalist and a drummer during the part I heard. If felt like you could reach out and touch each individual drumhead in its own space, perfectly drawn. It was, in a word, incredible. We later heard Pink Floyd - Time SACD and that was absolutely sublime. Talk about being transported to a different dimension.

 

With that said, this was an easily half-million dollar system all-in (I was told the power cable to the D'Agostino was something like $37k just by itself). So, by all rights, the actual band should have been playing in the room at that point.

 

Regardless - I'm not one to judge, but that is one SERIOUS piece of kit to use for Netflix and TIDAL.

Rockport Altairs, D'Agostino Integrated, DCS Vivaldi, Aurender N10, Transparent/HRS/Nordost.

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That's the place! That room they have is astounding, truly.

 

While somewhat surprising that it only supports DSD64, Vivaldi is a very modular system isn't it? I would think there is some hope for an upgrade path there but this equipment is well out of my league, I just feel privileged to have heard it once. We're going back to Omaha next year I think and I'm hoping they have something equally as impressive then :)

Ryzen 3900x Roon Core PC -> Intel i9900k HQPlayer W10 machine -> iFi Zen Stream NAA

Holo May KTE, Benchmark LA4 preamp

SMC Audio upgraded DNA-125 Amp

Dynaudio Confidence C2 Platinum speakers

Vinyl rig - Schiit Sol, Nagaoka MP-500, Mod Squad PhonoDrive phono stage

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I agree with your sentiment about the room at The Sound Environment. I live in Colorado and have made the trip to Omaha several times just to audition one bit of gear or another in that room.

The Vivaldi is modular in the sense that it has the DAC, clock, upsampler, and transport, so that a customer's system can be composed of different components. It also allows for firmware updates to improve/optimize the various algorithms inside the DAC. But I don't believe the Vivaldi will support more than DSD-64 via a firmware update. Perhaps they will have a factory-update program in the future, though.

I'm wondering if they won't let this Rossini breathe a little, and then release a new flagship to replace Vivaldi.

Brian.

That's the place! That room they have is astounding, truly.

 

While somewhat surprising that it only supports DSD64, Vivaldi is a very modular system isn't it? I would think there is some hope for an upgrade path there but this equipment is well out of my league, I just feel privileged to have heard it once. We're going back to Omaha next year I think and I'm hoping they have something equally as impressive then :)

Rockport Altairs, D'Agostino Integrated, DCS Vivaldi, Aurender N10, Transparent/HRS/Nordost.

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  • 1 month later...
I have an opportunity to buy one or these.

Vivaldi is top of the line but Rossini is newer ,smaller and has a streamer built in.

It is also cheaper.

I have Debussy DAC and am looking for an upgrade.

Is there a major advantage of having an integrated streamer?

Right now I use Mac mini to watch Netflix movies and I am considering signing up for one of the music streaming services (tidal etc).

Thank you

 

Sorry I'm a bit late with this reply. I wouldn't buy the Rossini just because it's a streamer. You can purchase the Vivaldi and an Aurender N100H music streamer for $2.5K. The Aurender has 2 TB for local song storage and you can connect to one of the music subscription services. The Aurender interface is terrific as there's virtually no difference in the interface for local songs on the Aurender or Tidal tracks. Tidal is the way to go in the US as they're the only service offering lossless (Redbook) at this time. I'm not sure how they do it but many of their Redbook tracks sound better than my local Redbook versions.

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  • 1 year later...
On sound alone the Vivaldi is three levels above the Rossini which is at the Puccini level. The Vivaldi DAC is reference level - add the Master Clock and it's not even close.

 

The Rossini is probably more suitable to a more casual listening requirement.

 

What matters is the rest of the gear you plan to use with.

If you are using Vivaldi DAC level gear the Rossini is not at the same level.

 

"Rossini for casual listening requirements...?" :-D Sorry, but that's really complete rubbish. Vivaldi is actually not three but only one level above the Rossini. The new line by dCS based on their latest Ring DAC technology consists of only the Vivaldi and the Rossini. The Rossini uses the exact same and most current dCS DAC board as the Vivaldi does. Although the price of the Rossini + clock is only roughly 1/3 of the price of the full Vivaldi 4-box stack the actual performance is not that far apart. I've heard both extensively in top-level systems so I know what I'm talking about. Also the Rossini has a brand new network board that is now also used in Vivaldi's latest upsampler version (the previous Vivaldi one had some problems); so no trickling-down, but actually trickling-up. I'm in the middle now of upgrading my Puccini + clock to the Rossini player + clock. I can tell you that the step-up from Puccini to Rossini is huge in every way. Although I hate to trade-in my Puccini after only 2,5 years the improvements are so big that I'm going for the Rossini now. Simply put: if you own the Puccini, don't try try the Rossini unless you have the money to buy one. But considering that the Puccini was already in Stereophile's A+ list for years it's pretty silly (and arrogant too) to regard its successor as a 'casual listening requirements' solution. C'mon guys, we're talking over € 30k here; not everyone's a millionaire on this forum..?

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Sorry I'm a bit late with this reply. I wouldn't buy the Rossini just because it's a streamer. You can purchase the Vivaldi and an Aurender N100H music streamer for $2.5K. The Aurender has 2 TB for local song storage and you can connect to one of the music subscription services. The Aurender interface is terrific as there's virtually no difference in the interface for local songs on the Aurender or Tidal tracks. Tidal is the way to go in the US as they're the only service offering lossless (Redbook) at this time. I'm not sure how they do it but many of their Redbook tracks sound better than my local Redbook versions.

Personally I wouldn't consider the Aurender N100H as a suitable partner for a Vivaldi DAC. I've recently upgraded my Aurender X100L to the Aurender N10 (connected to the dCS Puccini) and that was already a VERY big improvement. I think that if you want to exploit the added value of a an absolute high-end DAC as the Vivaldi you would need to at least consider an N10 or even better a W20. And, as others replied, you would also need to have an excellent system overall. Doesn't make much sense to use an iMac on a Vivaldi either. Waste of money IMO..

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The Vivaldi is modular in the sense that it has the DAC, clock, upsampler, and transport, so that a customer's system can be composed of different components. It also allows for firmware updates to improve/optimize the various algorithms inside the DAC. But I don't believe the Vivaldi will support more than DSD-64 via a firmware update. Perhaps they will have a factory-update program in the future, though.

I'm wondering if they won't let this Rossini breathe a little, and then release a new flagship to replace Vivaldi.

Brian.

 

Since the Rossini and Vivaldi are based on the exact same Ring DAC processing platform of course the Vivaldi will be capable of DSD128 (and probably upwards) just by using different firmware. And I believe that firmware has already been released too..? The only reason that dCS is a little cautious in offering even higher rate DSD is that there's no logical reason to do so yet, since there's hardly any music to listen to in those formats. The new dCS platform is extremely powerful and also more than powerful enough for the next 4 years or more. dCS has always provided hardware for at least 4-6 years and provided new firmware over time that enhanced possibilties and sound quality. This will certainly happen again now. Therefore I don't believe Vivaldi will be changed from a hardware PoV for the next few years.

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I actualiteit prefered the EMM labs transport + dac over a full Vivaldi stack. But it was a matter of taste.

Nothing wrong with having your own taste. I was only pointing at the hearsay because everyone seemed to have an opinion about Rossini at least 3 months before it was released. No way they could have heard it. [emoji1]

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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Nothing wrong with having your own taste. I was only pointing at the hearsay because everyone seemed to have an opinion about Rossini at least 3 months before it was released. No way they could have heard it. [emoji1]

You expect people to actually listen before having an opinion... what do you think this is... the Internet or something! :-)

Eloise

---

...in my opinion / experience...

While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing.

And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism.

keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out.

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I was only pointing at the hearsay because everyone seemed to have an opinion about Rossini at least 3 months before it was released. No way they could have heard it. [emoji1]

 

Hmmm .. this was a year ago and my post was based on info I had at the time. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

 

The casual listening I was referring to was Netflix the OP mentioned in his post.

Custom Win10 Transport | Mutec MC-3+ Smart Clock USB | Lampizator Amber | Acoustic Portrait Thiyaga | ATC SCM20 PSL

 

 

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At a local dealer, I listened to a Rossini and Clock connected to Kudo speakers and it produced the best HiFi sound I have ever heard. But the same equipment connected to Magico S3, it was very disappointing. So I guess you need a good pair of loudspeakers to take advantage of the excellent source.

 

The main hesitation I have in buying the Rossini is the MQA availability. If MQA streaming becomes available next year, then I only need a Mytek Brooklyn to obtain the same (or better) sound quality. That also means CD will becoming obsolete in the coming years. Am I still wanting to spent so much money only to put Rossini aside and then buy a small Brooklyn for daily listening?

 

Now if Rossini includes a MQA decoder inside, the decision will be easy.

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At a local dealer, I listened to a Rossini and Clock connected to Kudo speakers and it produced the best HiFi sound I have ever heard. But the same equipment connected to Magico S3, it was very disappointing. So I guess you need a good pair of loudspeakers to take advantage of the excellent source.

 

The main hesitation I have in buying the Rossini is the MQA availability. If MQA streaming becomes available next year, then I only need a Mytek Brooklyn to obtain the same (or better) sound quality. That also means CD will becoming obsolete in the coming years. Am I still wanting to spent so much money only to put Rossini aside and then buy a small Brooklyn for daily listening?

 

Now if Rossini includes a MQA decoder inside, the decision will be easy.

Well, that's an easy one. [emoji4] MQA as well as Roon support for Rossini (via firmware only) are expected already end of this month! See: http://www.dcsltd.co.uk/product-support/faq/ The FAQ is actually lagging behind, but I heard the upcoming update from my dealer.

By the way: please don't expect the Brooklyn DAC (good as it may be) to be anywhere competitive with Rossini, with or without MQA. They are in completely different leagues! Again, Rossini level only makes sense when you're system is up to the task to let you hear its quality. By the way: you can skip the CD player if you want (but it sounds definitely better than the ripped CD!) and buy only the DAC instead.

W.r.t. Magico S3: system synergy is always important. My personal opinion is that I love Magico, but I don't really like the S3 that much. To me it mostly sounds like it's 'trying too hard'. I was very lucky myself to be able to buy a demo pair of Magico S5 for half the normal price. To me it's the best speaker I've heard, but that's just me. [emoji6]

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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Dear, I bet you that in one or two years, your cellphones with MQA will sound as good as the Rossini, provided that MQA will roll out. My experience with Brooklyn MQA is better than Rossini without MQA.

I don't believe that statement for one bit, sorry. There is way much more to a DAC than the codec you are using, such as component quality, power supplies, clocking quality and the quality of the analog output stages. No way that a 2k DAC will sound better than Rossini, just because of switching MQA on. I'm happy for you though if you think otherwise, because it will save you a lot of money. [emoji6]

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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  • 1 month later...
  • 4 weeks later...
Dear, I bet you that in one or two years, your cellphones with MQA will sound as good as the Rossini, provided that MQA will roll out. My experience with Brooklyn MQA is better than Rossini without MQA.

For some more perspective see below:

 

"I went through the entire MQA gamut with the Brooklyn where each recording sounded lovely. How lovely? Is MQA/Mytek the equal of the at-present MQA-less dCS Rossini? Of course not. We're not talking miracles. What we are talking about with MQA is, according to the recordings I have, a more natural sound and the better-sounding the DAC, the more engaging the experience.

Read more at http://www.audiostream.com/content/mqa-reviewed#ewTtIAhjaxcpiRub.99"

 

http://www.audiostream.com/content/mqa-reviewed#KXX0jkC1zjBbcBFo.97

 

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Computer Audiophile mobile app

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