Audio_ELF Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Hip hop on top as Kanye West beats Bob Dylan in breadth of lyrical vocabulary | Music | The Guardian Eloise --- ...in my opinion / experience... While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing. And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism. keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out. Link to comment
Paul R Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Hip hop on top as Kanye West beats Bob Dylan in breadth of lyrical vocabulary | Music | The Guardian Interesting! Of course I am not at all sure that this: Let's get lost tonight You could be my black Kate Moss tonight Play secretary, I'm the boss tonight And you don't give a fuck what they all say right? Awesome, the Christian and Christian Dior Damn, they don't make 'em like this anymore I ask 'cause I'm not sure Do anybody make real shit anymore? Bow in the presence of greatness 'cause right now thou hast forsaken us You should be honored by my lateness That I would even show up to this fake shit So go ahead go nuts go ape shit Especially in my pastel on my bape shit Act like you can't tell who made this New gospel homie, take six, and take this, haters at all compares to this: Come gather 'round friends And I'll tell you a tale Of when the red iron pits ran empty But the cardboard filled windows And old men on the benches Tell you now that the whole town is empty. In the north end of town My own children are grown But I was raised on the other In the wee hours of youth May mother took sick And I was brought up by my brother. The iron ore poured As the years passed the door The drag lines an' the shovels they was a-humming 'Til one day my brother Failed to come home The same as my father before him. Well a long winter's wait From the window I watched My friends they couldn't have been kinder And my schooling was cut As I quit in the spring To marry John Thomas, a miner. Oh the years passed again And the givin' was good With the lunch bucket filled every season What with three babies born The work was cut down To a half a day's shift with no reason. Then the shaft was soon shut And more work was cut And the fire in the air, it felt frozen 'Til a man come to speak And he said in one week That number eleven was closin'. Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
firedog Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 This is classic stupidity by intelligent people. Reducing something to some lowest common denominator so it loses meaning. Context, as always, changes things. The statistic "number of different words" means nothing in itself and doesn't prove anything. Songwriting is a type of poetry, and one of the telltale characteristics of song writing that distinguishes it from some other forms of writing is that it often purposely uses few words, yet uses them in a way that allows the listeners to impart multiple meanings to the lyrics. Some of the lyrics we find most powerful and meaningful are fairly simple, yet together with the music of the song, they become deep with different levels of meaning to different people at different times. That's one of the reasons they resonate with us. Some of the best songwriting has simple language. That's part of what makes it great. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
wgscott Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/13/movies/straight-outta-compton-nwa-ice-cube-rage-that-makes-movies.html Link to comment
wgscott Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Well, I listened to the new Compton, appropriately enough, streamed through Apple. Fortunately, it was free. The critics were right. Dr. Dre delivered an abortion. It just totally sucks. Unbelievably bad. Straight out of Compton was not exactly easy listening, but I thought it had considerable merit. Maybe listening through those stupid headphones damaged his brain. Link to comment
toddrhodes Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 This is classic stupidity by intelligent people. Reducing something to some lowest common denominator so it loses meaning. Context, as always, changes things. The statistic "number of different words" means nothing in itself and doesn't prove anything. Songwriting is a type of poetry, and one of the telltale characteristics of song writing that distinguishes it from some other forms of writing is that it often purposely uses few words, yet uses them in a way that allows the listeners to impart multiple meanings to the lyrics. Some of the lyrics we find most powerful and meaningful are fairly simple, yet together with the music of the song, they become deep with different levels of meaning to different people at different times. That's one of the reasons they resonate with us. Some of the best songwriting has simple language. That's part of what makes it great. True, but there was a list recently of the average word length in recent popular songs. I think the worst offender had an average word length of something like 2.3 characters. I don't have to hear that song to know it just isn't my thing. Fortunately, pop and radio hits are meant for a very specific audience and are intentionally written to fade from memory quickly, so the next "big hit" can come out more quickly. Ryzen 3900x Roon Core PC -> Intel i9900k HQPlayer W10 machine -> iFi Zen Stream NAA Holo May KTE, Benchmark LA4 preamp SMC Audio upgraded DNA-125 Amp Dynaudio Confidence C2 Platinum speakers Vinyl rig - Schiit Sol, Nagaoka MP-500, Mod Squad PhonoDrive phono stage Link to comment
Paul R Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Fortunately, pop and radio hits are meant for a very specific audience and are intentionally written to fade from memory quickly, so the next "big hit" can come out more quickly. Is that from personal knowledge insider knowledge or just something "everybody knows?" Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
toddrhodes Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Is that from personal knowledge insider knowledge or just something "everybody knows?" Sorry, I should have tacked on an "IMO" at the end of that. In any case, it's been about 15 years since I took this class but we had a seminar-style class in college where each week, an expert in some field came in and talked to us. On one occasion we had either a composer or just an expert in classical music came in - my statement was a paraphrase of how he talked about popular music and how it's designed to be "simple" so we get attached to it more quickly than, say a complex classical piece. But, that simplicity makes it so we can only be attached to it for so long before we move on to something else. Basically the musical equivalent of crack cocaine, to use a very crass analogy. Ryzen 3900x Roon Core PC -> Intel i9900k HQPlayer W10 machine -> iFi Zen Stream NAA Holo May KTE, Benchmark LA4 preamp SMC Audio upgraded DNA-125 Amp Dynaudio Confidence C2 Platinum speakers Vinyl rig - Schiit Sol, Nagaoka MP-500, Mod Squad PhonoDrive phono stage Link to comment
davidbeinct Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Sorry, I should have tacked on an "IMO" at the end of that. In any case, it's been about 15 years since I took this class but we had a seminar-style class in college where each week, an expert in some field came in and talked to us. On one occasion we had either a composer or just an expert in classical music came in - my statement was a paraphrase of how he talked about popular music and how it's designed to be "simple" so we get attached to it more quickly than, say a complex classical piece. But, that simplicity makes it so we can only be attached to it for so long before we move on to something else. Basically the musical equivalent of crack cocaine, to use a very crass analogy. Yeah, I know what you mean. I used to listen to this really simple pop band called "The Beatles" but their music is simple and lacks staying power, never listen any more. Link to comment
toddrhodes Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Yeah, I know what you mean. I used to listen to this really simple pop band called "The Beatles" but their music is simple and lacks staying power, never listen any more. A fair point, and you didn't need to be a dick about it but whatever, I guess some people can only get their point across through sarcasm and snark. With that said, would you go so far as to say both the Beatles and, say an artist like Kesha represent "pop" music equally in terms of staying power and talent? Or, might there be exceptions to everything, including the opinion of one anonymous non-expert sharing an opinion on a message board? Ryzen 3900x Roon Core PC -> Intel i9900k HQPlayer W10 machine -> iFi Zen Stream NAA Holo May KTE, Benchmark LA4 preamp SMC Audio upgraded DNA-125 Amp Dynaudio Confidence C2 Platinum speakers Vinyl rig - Schiit Sol, Nagaoka MP-500, Mod Squad PhonoDrive phono stage Link to comment
asindc Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Actually, I thinks it's more accurate to say rap artists generally use more words than their classic rock counterparts. That does not necessarily reflect the relative vocabulary knowledge between artists of the two musical genres. *ANTIPODES CX--- Ethernet---> *CARY DMS-600 STREAMER/DAC---> XLR ICs---> *CARY SLP-05 preamp (Ultimate Upgrade ed.)---> XLR ICs---> *CLAYTON M-300 amps---> *MARTIN LOGAN Spire speakers. Link to comment
wgscott Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Stoopid rap lyrics: In the 1970's The OPEC nations began to dominate The world's oil economy In the 1980's, Japan became the world's Number one economic power In 1989 the nations of Eastern Europe Attempted to restructure While in the United States civil rights have Collapsed at the hands of fundamentalists And national insecurity's at an all time high Exxon and on and on and on The ministers of double speak New meanin' of clean they tried to teach us They staged the phoney shampoo of the Valdez greases Completely jheri curled the beaches Pipe bomb for the NAACP And a hit on Salman Rushdie, the Berlin Wall comes down And the U.S. cracks down on illegal aliens Ban the freedom of choice for those wantin' abortion And enforce capitol punishment Twenty four hour radio ban For indecency determined by the F.U.C.C. Why are we so anesthetized to the lies? Because we do it in our own lives We believe all the things that we want to hear But then we also love to criticize Bail out the banks loan art to the churches Satanic Reverses Bail-out the banks loan art to the churches Satanic Reverses Bail out the banks loan art to the churches Satanic Reverses Bail out the banks loan art to the churches Satanic Reverses In 1992 the European economic community will reform In 1997 the city of Hong Kong will become A part of the People's Republic of China In 1999, and this is no coincidence The nation of Panama will control it's own canal While in the United States Civil rights have collapsed at the hands of Fundamentalists And national insecurity's at an all time high Helms said ban the photograph of the piss Christ It's sacreligious not an art While we all try to discern between our cup of tea And what we call obscenity, the house's legislation Ripped the phoney foundation off what we thought inherent Sent Joey to the Supreme Court 'Cause he made a statement, they called it Desecration of the symbol that was meant to represent The freedom of so called choice and dissent They almost had me believin' it, they were bleedin' him He said, "Burn baby, burn" 'Til the street Samurai said to my face That any flag that's worth a shit Was woven from fire in the first place Bail out the banks loan art to the churches Satanic Reverses Bail out the banks loan art to the churches Satanic Reverses Bail out the banks loan art to the churches Satanic Reverses Bail out the banks loan art to the churches Satanic Reverses Bail out the banks loan art to the churches Satanic Reverses Bail out the banks loan art to the churches Satanic Reverses Bail out the banks loan art to the churches Satanic Reverses Bail out the banks loan art to the churches Satanic Reverses and It all seemed so idiotic all the accusations of unpatriotic The fall we'll always remember, capitulating silence Election November before the winter Of the long hot summer Somewhere in the desert We raised the oil pressure And waited for the weather To get much better For the new wind to blow in the storm We tried to remember the history in the region The French foreign legion, Imperialism, Peter O'Toole and hate the Ayatollah Were all we learned in school Not that we gave Hussein five billion Not of our new bed partner the Syrian And of course no mention of the Palestine situation It was amazing how they steamrolled They said eighty percent approval But there was no one that I knew polled No one had a reason for being in the Gulf We waited for congress to speak up illegal build up But no one would wake up Our representatives were Milli Vanilli's For corporate Dallas Cowboy Beverly Hillbillies With perfect timing The politicians rhyming their sentiments So nicely oil gold and sand My sediments precisely.... We regretfully support the lunacy I'm afraid there is no time for more scrutiny National unity preserve our community Teflon© election opportunities Were in profundant abundance On January second the Bush administration Announced a recession had stricken The Nation the highest quarterly Earnings in ten years were posted By Chevron© Meanwhile a budget was placed in our hands As the deadline in the sand came to an end So much for the peace dividend One billion a day is what we spent And our grandchildren will pay for it 'til the end When schools are unfunded And kids don't get their diplomas They get used for gun boat diplomacy Disproportionately Black or brown we see Bullet catchers for the slave master Then the conservatives called up reservists To active service left families nervous But more importantly broke nine hundred a month But the check came late, army red tape you see, This golden opportunity We watched the tube and read the newspaper The propaganda of the gas masked raper Was the proper slander to whip up the hatred The stage was lit and the lights were all faded The pilots in night vision goggles Kuwaited and Generals masturbated 'til the fifteenth two days later they invaded Not a single T. V. Station expressed dissension or Hardly made mention to the censorship of information From our kinder and gentler nation Blinder and mentaler retardation Disorientation The pilots said their bombs lit Baghdad Like a Christmas tree It was the Christian thing to do you see They didn't mention any casualties No distinction between the real And the proxy Only football analogies We saw the bomb hole We watched the Super Bowl We saw the scud missile We watched Bud© commercials We saw the yellow ribbons Saw pilots in prison We never saw films of the dead... At eleven Angela Davis addressed the spectators And shouting above a rumbling generator said If they insist on bringing us down Then let's shut the whole country down Marching through the downtown A hundred thousand became participants And we heard the drums of millions off in the distance Rushing through the cities Some of them did things that weren't so pretty Most were there for primal scream therapy News men concentrated On the negative liked the jingoists more Peaceful protesters ended up On the cutting room floor Nintendo© casualties of the ratings war More bombs dropped than in World War ii On in both Asian invasions, new world order persuasion, Business as usual For our nation Could you imagine a hundred fifty thousand dead, The city of Stockton Coffins locked in when we clocked in... Not to mention Civilians The loss of life on both sides Pushed the limits of resilience The scent of blood in our nostrils Fuel of the fossil land of apostle The blackness that covered the sky was not the only thing That brought a tear to the eye or The taste of anger to the tongues Of those too young to remember Vietnam Is heroin better in a veteran's mind Than the memory of the dying laying in a line Is it the smell or the shadows heaving and weeping That keeps the soldier from sleeping As he sings the orphan's lullaby When the soldiers put down their bayonets The strings are chained to the marionettes Emir of Kuwait gets back in his jet We replace the dead with new cadets Will we hate those who did the shelling Or will we hate those who weren't willing to do the killing When the leaders of the bald eagles come home to roost Will we sing a song of praise and indebtedness For our deliverance from evil Or will we sing a song of sadness For the dreaded debt this mess delivered us people. 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toddrhodes Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 There is most certainly poetry in a lot of hip hop out there but I can only go on what I remember from the late 1990's. Mos Def, Talib Kweli, Common, etc... have very thought provoking, powerful lyrics. Then you have someone like Canibus who intentionally used some very complicated vocabulary but in a very rhythmic, fluid style that elevated his stuff from "showing off" to actually impressive talent. Ryzen 3900x Roon Core PC -> Intel i9900k HQPlayer W10 machine -> iFi Zen Stream NAA Holo May KTE, Benchmark LA4 preamp SMC Audio upgraded DNA-125 Amp Dynaudio Confidence C2 Platinum speakers Vinyl rig - Schiit Sol, Nagaoka MP-500, Mod Squad PhonoDrive phono stage Link to comment
ElviaCaprice Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 I thought hardcore had a better message than rap. Isn't that what it's all about, the message? They try to take a catchy tune, add a female vocal (sometimes quite good) then throw their crap rap into it, what's musical about the actual rap. Arggghhh, guess you can tell I'm not a fan. (JRiver) Jetway barebones NUC (mod 3 sCLK-EX, Cybershaft OP 14) (PH SR7) => mini pcie adapter to PCIe 1X => tXUSBexp PCIe card (mod sCLK-EX) (PH SR7) => (USPCB) Chord DAVE => Omega Super 8XRS/REL t5i (All powered thru Topaz Isolation Transformer) Link to comment
wgscott Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 I thought hardcore had a better message than rap. Isn't that what it's all about, the message? They try to take a catchy tune, add a female vocal (sometimes quite good) then throw their crap rap into it, what's musical about the actual rap. Arggghhh, guess you can tell I'm not a fan. It sounds like you are describing opera. Link to comment
Paul R Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 Michael Franit and Spearhead Not quite my taste, but it reminds me a lot of the music from _Hair_, just with a newer rougher twist on it. Then again, I do not think this came from Broadway either. Of course, this has a LOT of words in it too, and is much more to my taste. They even RAP in German! Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
livelistenlearn Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 ^ no, no, no. way too hard to rave to (though 'at', perhaps). try this: [video=youtube;Mq-aVCUs2Q0] caution: don’t adjust the stereo if you can’t make out all the lyrics, just nod your head and go with the drop beats. if you like it, google: skrillex f*ck that lyrics Link to comment
Paul R Posted August 16, 2015 Share Posted August 16, 2015 ^ no, no, no. way too hard to rave to (though 'at', perhaps). caution: don’t adjust the stereo if you can’t make out all the lyrics, just nod your head and go with the drop beats. if you like it, google: skrillex f*ck that lyrics Oh my- it's raves we want huh? Anyone who considers protocol unimportant has never dealt with a cat DAC. Robert A. Heinlein Link to comment
j dub Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Stoopid rap lyrics: and I personally know that there are a lot of brotha's oh excuse me "African American" who are member's on this forum who like rap music. When you apply to rap music as lacking intelligence or common sense you are taking a personal stab at those who understand rap. Maybe you should of said rap is not your taste that is more acceptable to those who live and understand that life style. There is one thing you need to know rap makes perfectly good sense to all the riders out there. Link to comment
wgscott Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 When you deliberately take something out of context, and don't even bother to read what I have written earlier in this thread to see that the comment was transparently intended to be ironic., it makes you look like a knee-jerk idiot. Read what I quoted, or better yet, listen. It is FAR more intelligent and offers FAR more analysis of political economy than you might typically get from (say) a CNN commentary. Then try to be just a tad bit less obtuse. Link to comment
Allan F Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 The number of words used is meaningless. It is all about the choice of words and how they are used to communicate. I'm sure Kanye West would disagree but, IMO, his name does not belong in the same sentence as that of Bob Dylan. OTOH, Steve Earle once said, "Townes van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that". Upon hearing what Earle had said, Dylan replied with tongue in cheek, "I'd like to see him try. I ain't got no coffee table". "Relax, it's only hi-fi. There's never been a hi-fi emergency." - Roy Hall "Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." - William Bruce Cameron Link to comment
Jud Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 True, but there was a list recently of the average word length in recent popular songs. I think the worst offender had an average word length of something like 2.3 characters. I don't have to hear that song to know it just isn't my thing. So "To be or not to be" just ain't gonna cut it, eh? Not the length or complexity of the words, of course, but the ideas and images. Favorite lyrics: "Love is an angel, disguised as lust, Here in our bed until the morning comes." Not rap, though, so I guess it's a little OT. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical Ethernet to Fitlet3 -> Fibbr Alpha Optical USB -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
wgscott Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 Just to clarify: (1) NWA's Straight out of Compton had considerable merit and was among the most important albums at the time. (2) The new Dr. Dre's Compton is a travesty by comparison (IMO). (3) Quite possibly the most intelligent and informed political analyses I have heard anywhere are in The Disposable Heroes of Hiphoprisy's Hypocrisy is the Greatest Luxury and in the later Michael Franti's solo album Yell Fire (which in turn is a sound track to an excellent documentary movie I Know I'm Not Alone he and others produced when they visited Iraq and the Occupied Territories a few years after the 2003 invasion.) Link to comment
davidbeinct Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 A fair point, and you didn't need to be a dick about it but whatever, I guess some people can only get their point across through sarcasm and snark. With that said, would you go so far as to say both the Beatles and, say an artist like Kesha represent "pop" music equally in terms of staying power and talent? Or, might there be exceptions to everything, including the opinion of one anonymous non-expert sharing an opinion on a message board? I can't make any sense of your last sentence. I guess from the start of your post you don't think your opinion warranted sarcasm, but I beg to differ. Link to comment
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