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roon with Dirac Live Now and Future, A Resource for CA Members & Readers-At-Large


REShaman

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Dear All,

 

You know me as the curator of two other threads at CA, one for W4S Dac2 DSDse and another for Amarra Symphony with iRC.

 

On Saturday, July 11th, my wife's birthday, I purchased a life-time membership to roon for compelling (read irresistible) reasons and as a, birthday present for my wife and for her husband. "What's a roon? What's a roon?...You'll love it." (Pregnant pause.) In the few days that followed, I began familiarizing myself with what is a roon. I had a little help from my friends, all of you members who congruently presented several useful assessments consistent and compelling, easy and affordable (amortize the cost over time). My imagination provided the rest. I was not disappointed. No regrets. Not a bit (pun intended).

 

Frankly, I purchased the program on intuition alone. No trial. No look-see. I did read every review I could find. And, of course, the reviews provided photographs of the program pages etc. You know how it is when you reach a threshold for those of us who are non-linear in the way we make some decisions after that threshold has been reached: Just located the website and filled in the blanks. The ten percent discount for a life-time membership made absolute sense to me, once I had made the decision, ignorant as I was about the actual look and feel of roon. I realize this confession may compromise this introduction. (Nah!)

 

Compared to my go-to software player, Amarra Symphony with iRC (ASwiRC), I believe it is fair of me to assess roon player's SQ as in need of a little help from my friends. Consequently, I purchased Dirac SE's full program, Dirac Live, whose cousin, iRC (Impulse Room Control), a Dirac SE program I am familiar with, because I have been a beta tester (volunteer) for Sonic Studio's Amarra Symphony since 2011. And with their updated build AS2.6, Sonic Studio offered iRC, an impulse room control program for integration with Amarra Symphony, which, in my opinion, demonstrated their wisdom and appreciation for what iRC/Dirac Live does for one's room acoustic conditions in lieu of or in addition to acoustic room treatments, especially when one's partner's preferences for design and the room's ambiance would suffer.

 

My overall impression after adding iRC to Amarra Symphony persuaded me that my new friend had just been made welcome to the family. I believe one can find many who are in accord with that assessment.

 

As I envisioned for the Amarra Symphony thread, my intention is to start a thread devoted to roon with Dirac Live to serve the membership as a resource. Given the promptings of one of the principals of roon, we know as Danny who welcomed me to roon after my purchase and who posts at CA from time to time, Danny prefers that the roon forum become the locus as the resource for information about roon, support for, how-to and solutions for problems that we users or prospective users (during a trial session?) present. Then how may this thread be useful what can this thread provide that will not conflict with Danny's criteria for roon's forum? I am really not sure.

 

Therefore, I feel the need to walk the tightrope (without falling off) by respecting Danny's preferences, and insuring I have the blessings of Danny, of Chris Connacker, who has always been supportive of any thread that serves the best interests of the CA membership, and anyone connected to Dirac SE who might have a say. I am hoping that Flavio who is connected with Dirac SE, and who posts at CA from time to time and has helped readers of the Amarra Symphony with iRC thread will provide even more than a little help (as a friend). I am woefully inexperienced in using Dirac Live, except for iRC. So if this thread's endeavors are a doable combination for a thread (as opposed to two threads devoted to each program individually) it may require a trial of its own. The last thing I wish to accomplish is to alienate any of the principal(s) connected with roon, Dirac SE and CA.

 

For my part, as curator, I intend to maintain the thread as a resource in the same fashion as I have curated the other two threads. One consideration that I have come to appreciate is the absence of any way to index a thread to make it convenient to sort by subject matter. Hence, the only methods that provide a perfunctory, if not hit or miss ,method to finding posts regarding specifics about roon or about Dirac Live or about roon with DL (hereafter roonwDL) is to search for the subject matter within the thread or CA forums. Roon's forum has its own synergy. At CA, any synergy other than managing what is OT is out of my control given the forum's operations and controls in managing the forum.

 

I have already started to send PM to members who have generously provided relevant answers to questions I posed when on overwhelm with purchases and not having time to read the user manuals yet. I had a chuckle when I was nicely made aware of that at present there is no user manual for roon. I did not know that.

 

Navigating roon can be self-revealing about some matters. I did ask for help about how to play DSF downloaded albums/tracks that are presently playing as PCM 176.4 even after cues from a little help from our friends contained in PMs. My W4S Dac2 DSDse connected to my Mac Mini, OSX 10.10.4, etc. plays DSD resolutions up to 256 (512 has eluded me presently) plays DSD enabled by other software players but not with roon as the player. It would appear I will need to reach roon's support. If there is a solution that is workable, would not that be a reasonable subject to post in this thread to help other member users who may experience the same difficulty? If Danny has objections, I may either rename or discontinue this thread so as to not create a conflict.

 

Look forward if this thread is to thrive to what may come forward to insure this thread becomes a resource.

 

Thank you for your attention.

 

As always, enjoy the music,

Richard

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Solved my first problem with a little help from a friend, bplexico who lead me to a post and the steps needed to enable roon to play native DSD tracks, which I just succeeded in accomplishing. There were two additional steps I had to take in addition to those listed by Barr.

 

I stumbled on those steps, but, perhaps, they are intuitive and made so by roon's organization. When the album failed to play in native DSF64, but still PCM 176.4. I stopped play and noticed at the bottom right of the album/cover/track listing page an icon that looks like a rectangular speaker presently named after a Zone that identifies my W4S Dac2 DSDse (see photo 1). I clicked on that icon and a dialogue box opened smaller in size entitled Zones. One of the all were unchecked!

 

Aha! I checked the Zone identified as W4S Dac2 DSDse and closed the box returning to the album page. The steps Barr listed can be found at the Roon Labs Software post by bplexico -- it is obvious which post, I think #430. Then when I clicked on play all and play, the display of my W4S Dac2 DSDse read DSD64. Voilá!

 

Thank you, Barr for saving me considerable time, given there is no user manual yet. And using my own intuition and the logic of appreciating I assumed the Zone W4S Dac2 DSDse was already selected merely by naming the Zone. NOT SO!. The icon allows one to select the Zone and thus the device either from Preference or from the actual album page lower right corner, where the same icon appears. There are several ways to get to the click on an operation to make it operational.

 

Hope the screen captures help to augment what I just posted.

 

Best,

Richard

 

System Output 1 copy.jpg

 

Zones copy.jpg

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I have gone ahead, bit the bullet, and laid down the ducats necessary to purchase Dirac Live to utilize with my Roon subscription. After my many protestations that Amarra sQ+ would eventually incorporate iRC, and this would be the holy grail for those like me with huge sunk costs in the Sonic Studio ecosystem, I have decided that moving forward will move me upward. The bottom line is that Roon and Dirac play very well together. I have encountered a few glitches when changing bit rates; specifically, when moving up to 24/192 rates. I have had to close and then reopen Dirac to get the files to play properly. A minor inconvenience that nevertheless I hope Roon will resolve for us.

 

The SQ of Roon + Dirac through my system is relatively close to Amarra Symphony with iRC. The EQ and impulse response control of iRC/Dirac happens to be the single biggest source for improvement in my system, in my imperfect listening room. Roon does not sweeten the sound like Amarra does, but when combined with Dirac it does a very respectable job. When you add to that the insanely better UI and UX of Roon, it is sort of a no-brainer. I would tell anyone who has not yet invested in Amarra to avoid it and instead subscribe to Roon and purchase a Dirac license (and the microphone that you will need to make Dirac work, of course).

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I have been using ROON and Dirac since day one, and have had so much enjoyment. This is very,very good. You can almost place your speakers wherever you like, and let Dirac do the RoomCorrection. Thereafter I just point ROON to play its output through Dirac and voila I have a killer combination with wonderful and precise sound, and ease of use. BTW I call it ROONCorrection

. ;)

 

KnockKnock

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I have gone ahead, bit the bullet, and laid down the ducats necessary to purchase Dirac Live to utilize with my Roon subscription. After my many protestations that Amarra sQ+ would eventually incorporate iRC, and this would be the holy grail for those like me with huge sunk costs in the Sonic Studio ecosystem, I have decided that moving forward will move me upward. The bottom line is that Roon and Dirac play very well together. I have encountered a few glitches when changing bit rates; specifically, when moving up to 24/192 rates. I have had to close and then reopen Dirac to get the files to play properly. A minor inconvenience that nevertheless I hope Roon will resolve for us.

 

The SQ of Roon + Dirac through my system is relatively close to Amarra Symphony with iRC. The EQ and impulse response control of iRC/Dirac happens to be the single biggest source for improvement in my system, in my imperfect listening room. Roon does not sweeten the sound like Amarra does, but when combined with Dirac it does a very respectable job. When you add to that the insanely better UI and UX of Roon, it is sort of a no-brainer. I would tell anyone who has not yet invested in Amarra to avoid it and instead subscribe to Roon and purchase a Dirac license (and the microphone that you will need to make Dirac work, of course).

 

Hello Jim,

 

Welcome to the thread. Appreciate your post and findings. It had been my intention to use yesterday to create new filters for use with Dirac Live, but was prevented from doing so by other matters. I did find the time to solve the how-to play DSD/DSF files through roon which I found perplexing until a little help from Barr showed me the way and then I succeeded in discovering the last two steps, e.g., selecting the specific Zone (device) that directed roon to play through the device that is my selected W4S Dac2 DSDse, which until I succeeded in making that happen, playback for DSD files resulted in PCM 176.4, leaving me frustrated.

 

I am hoping to use today to accomplish creating the filters for use with roon so that I can determine from my own experience what effect Dirac Live implemented has on the SQ of roon.

 

ASwiRC has spoiled me in the best possible sense of the word when it comes to sonic signature. I am curious to discover what you have already experienced as you are way a head of me having already engaged Dirac Live with roon and discerned an improvement.

 

It is my understanding; and I have it on good authority that Sonic Studio's Amarra sQ+ and iRC are doable for playback of (all) applications, e.g., Amarra for TIDAL, Audirvana Plus, Netflix, roon, Youtube etc., and on a suitable CPU, it works just fine, quoting an undisclosed source. Merely mentioning this because you made reference to Amarra's sQ+ which will work with your iRC license in connection with your recommended use of Naxos HD classical streaming service, which is beginning to intrigue me (kind of). As you know I have not yet felt the pull to stream notwithstanding the availability of products to enhance that operation, and now with roon and Tidal and newly presented Amarra with Tidal. All things in its time. I am late to streaming if I ever get there, though I certainly appreciate and understand the attraction to for so many members despite the glitches some combination of programs and services members encounter. At the moment, it roon and Dirac Live I want to implement fully.

 

BTW: I may have inadvertently referred to iRC as impulse room control (sic) as opposed to impulse response control in past posts of late. If so, pardon my lapse (intended for you and the readers at large).

 

Once I am operational, I will want to check out the SRC change you report that results in your unfortunate solution of having to close and restart Dirac Live. Just guessing, brain storming or whatever, would the roon's delay settings favorably affect the use of Dirac Live with roon re SRC?

 

Perhaps, Flavio, should he read your post or should you contact him by PM (@ Flac) can provide some feedback. And/or support from roon. Just stating the obvious, as you may have already taken steps to glean more information about how and what may help this unfortunate (at the very least) interruption of "playing" music selections.

 

Whatever you discover, please let us know what you discover/learn that may have efficacy if within your control to make change or whether it is a matter specifically for roon or Dirac Live to address, or possibly hardware/software combinations issue, etc.

 

Happy you came by to add to this thread which I am hoping will be received by all and especially the principals connected to roon, Dirac Live and CA. Good impulse response control along the way (smile).

 

Best,

Richard

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I'm trying to contribute to this new thread about "ROONwDL" with an explanation of impulse response correction that we have put together and might be interesting to some...

 

Let's consider three signals, an ideal impulse, an ideal white noise, and an ideal sine sweep.

All of them have a perfectly flat spectrum, that is, they contain an equal amount of all frequencies from DC to infinity.

The difference between them is the phase... also letting go of a guitar string pulled slightly, to one pulled harder, creates a different time-domain response even if the frequency response is the same.

The phase information is all the difference between these signals, and it tells us about when does each frequency arrive.

 

Now, a speaker in a room can be measured, and showed to have some frequency response.

What we try to do with Dirac live is to improve this response in frequency (to have the desired target) and in time (we want the impulse response to be as close to a perfect impulse as possible).

 

When considering only the frequency response we can (in theory) apply any filter that has the inverse frequency response and the resulting response will be flat.

This filter is often a minimum phase filter, and if the system (the speaker together with the room) was already minimum phase, the result will be a flat frequency response and the impulse response will be perfect.

 

If the system is not minimum phase (and this is the case in our normal listening rooms) the frequency response will still be flat, but the impulse response will not be ideal (exactly how it looks will depend on the phase).

In order to get the impulse response correct for a non minimum phase system you need to use a filter that is not minimum phase.

 

What this filter will do is shift certain frequencies in time in such a way that they all arrive at the same time, thereby achieving the desired result.

Obviously we cannot move them all to time zero, as this requires us to know about the future.... instead we shift all of them to the latest frequency, that is we delay frequencies to match the latest one (within reasonable limits of course) and that's the reason of the latency introduced by the correction (that latency does not affect sound quality at all, it means that the music will start milliseconds later)

 

Good listenings :)

Flavio

 

P.S. I noticed that Richard mentioned my nick as flac... it's a slight misspelling, I'm flak

Warning: My posts may be biased even if in good faith, I work for Dirac Research :-)

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I'm trying to contribute to this new thread about "ROONwDL" with an explanation of impulse response correction that we have put together and might be interesting to some...

 

Let's consider three signals, an ideal impulse, an ideal white noise, and an ideal sine sweep.

All of them have a perfectly flat spectrum, that is, they contain an equal amount of all frequencies from DC to infinity.

The difference between them is the phase... also letting go of a guitar string pulled slightly, to one pulled harder, creates a different time-domain response even if the frequency response is the same.

The phase information is all the difference between these signals, and it tells us about when does each frequency arrive.

 

Now, a speaker in a room can be measured, and showed to have some frequency response.

What we try to do with Dirac live is to improve this response in frequency (to have the desired target) and in time (we want the impulse response to be as close to a perfect impulse as possible).

 

When considering only the frequency response we can (in theory) apply any filter that has the inverse frequency response and the resulting response will be flat.

This filter is often a minimum phase filter, and if the system (the speaker together with the room) was already minimum phase, the result will be a flat frequency response and the impulse response will be perfect.

 

If the system is not minimum phase (and this is the case in our normal listening rooms) the frequency response will still be flat, but the impulse response will not be ideal (exactly how it looks will depend on the phase).

In order to get the impulse response correct for a non minimum phase system you need to use a filter that is not minimum phase.

 

What this filter will do is shift certain frequencies in time in such a way that they all arrive at the same time, thereby achieving the desired result.

Obviously we cannot move them all to time zero, as this requires us to know about the future.... instead we shift all of them to the latest frequency, that is we delay frequencies to match the latest one (within reasonable limits of course) and that's the reason of the latency introduced by the correction (that latency does not affect sound quality at all, it means that the music will start milliseconds later)

 

Good listenings :)

Flavio

 

P.S. I noticed that Richard mentioned my nick as flac... it's a slight misspelling, I'm flak

 

Hello Flavio,

 

Welcome to the new thread. My apologies for misspelling your CA handle (nick as you referred to it). Yesterday, I was under-the-weather and feeling rather poorly. Thank you for catching my error in referring to your nick and correcting it so members who care to reach you will know your correct handle is flak.

 

Thank you for the concise primer re an "explanation of impulse response correction that we have put together and might be interesting to some..." I tend to glaze over with certain concepts needing to read, re-read and then some before comprehension sets in. You have simplified impulse response correction for me such that after only one and half readings (smile) your explanation went in.

 

It also appears I have mangled the mnemonic, iRC, twice now recently. (Instructions to myself) Repeat after me, "impulse response correction". I knew that!

 

The forecast for weather in NY, where I reside, is for thunderstorms. And the Palisades of NJ and the Hudson River visible from the west views from inside my home are grayed out by hazy fog. I know they're there. I plan to create new filters for Dirac Live to use with roon. I am sure my quiet neighborhood will remain so until I complete creating those filters.

 

And I look forward to how/what Dirac Live will favorably affect roon's present SQ. Given I have been listening through ASwiRC for the last two years out of four having started with Amarra in 2011, turning off iRC is immediately noticeable. My impulse is to respond by immediately correcting and turning it back "on". Soon, I hope to be able to employ Dirac Live with roon's player which is enjoyable but not the same SQ as with ASwiRC. That is not meant as a slight. Merely my own discernment subjective as it is.

 

What will Dirac Live do for roon? Soon, I'll be able to answer my own question. Flavio, please feel free to comment whenever you care to. We are all the better for your generous help with those matters many of us, like myself, need help with. Sleep time may not be cumulative but comprehension deepens understanding and the relationships your explanation provided me.

 

With appreciation,

Richard

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Good job Richard.

Looking forward to the posts on this thread!

 

Hello Abee_V,

 

Welcome!

 

Me too. Never too early in the morning to improve (read deepen) my comprehension of impulse response correction.

 

For the casual reader, that is not a psychological condition (smile). Good audio signal in, best audio signal out, as a matter for listening.

 

Music's the thing; the equipment seduces.

 

Best,

Richard

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"UX" means User Experience. It is a fairly fuzzy term, but basically it refers to the user's overall experience when using an application or website. "UI" means User Interface (graphics and mechanics of the app or website; the tools the user uses to interact and control the app or website). UIis sometimes considered an element or subsidiary of UX. At least that is what I understand after about 10 months as a new web entrepreneur! (http://www.brownfieldlistings.com).

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I have been using ROON and Dirac since day one, and have had so much enjoyment. This is very,very good. You can almost place your speakers wherever you like, and let Dirac do the RoomCorrection. Thereafter I just point ROON to play its output through Dirac and voila I have a killer combination with wonderful and precise sound, and ease of use. BTW I call it ROONCorrection

. ;)

 

KnockKnock

 

Hello KnockKnock,

 

Welcome and good morning.

 

You're sense of humor made me chuckle. I believe you may have coined a new industry term. Yikes! On impulse, I better get my rooncorrection installed and operational less I suffer a diraclection of my audio responsebilities.

 

Oy,

Richard

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"UX" means User Experience. It is a fairly fuzzy term, but basically it refers to the user's overall experience when using an application or website. "UI" means User Interface (graphics and mechanics of the app or website; the tools the user uses to interact and control the app or website). UIis sometimes considered an element or subsidiary of UX. At least that is what I understand after about 10 months as a new web entrepreneur! (http://www.brownfieldlistings.com).

 

 

Jim,

 

Thank you for the clarification. UX makes for a good mnemonic. It has currency for me. I had not seen it used in context until recently. I believe for the first time in one of your posts. For me, UX relates to the spontaneous attraction which coincided with my own take on the UX in connection with my first impression and introduction to roon. It was immediately love at first sight, which is rare for me. And unexpected at the time I purchased roon based mostly on intuition and the impressions of other members whose judgment often demonstrates reliable feedback. Hence, currency.

 

I am someone who has experienced love at first sight. When I saw my wife for the first time when my wife exited her office into the waiting room, my immediate response which unearthed me (I actually did not know what happened -- I thought there had been an earthquake that jarred the room, me, my equilibrium).

 

With a much milder impact and in a balanced perspective, the look, feel, the pathways to the synergy of information was highly impressive. And to sum up the totality of the UX, in a mnemonic that speaks volumes, it was love at first sight. And regarding "sight", highly attractive to the eye, the design, the graphics, composition, fonts, look and feel.

 

The UX is Xceptional!

 

Best,

Richard

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On Saturday, July 11th, my wife's birthday, I purchased a life-time membership to roon for compelling (read irresistible) reasons and as a, birthday present for my wife and for her husband.

 

I hope the three of you get a lot of enjoyment from this.

 

When Roon enables AU plug-ins, and Dirac officially releases theirs, it will be seamless.

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Richard, thanks. Everybody else who is confused by my non sequitur OT insertion in this thread with definitions of "UX" and "UI," I meant to send that as a PM just to Richard. So sorry for the OT post; it was a bit of "UE" (User Error) on my part.

 

Jim,

 

URF (you are forgiven, smile).

 

Best,

Richard

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I hope the three of you get a lot of enjoyment from this.

 

When Roon enables AU plug-ins, and Dirac officially releases theirs, it will be seamless.

 

Hello Bill,

Welcome to the thread.

Thank you from the three of us for that information. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Best,

Richard

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dear All,

 

Just having a bit of rhyming fun with roon. It will stop soon. I presoom.

 

At last, spent Thursday exclusively creating projects and filters for Dirac Live (Full). Created one filter for my main system. Then, one filter for my auxilary system in my office/study, a room adjacent to my listening room.

 

It has been at least a year or longer since I setup my XTZ microphone/preamp and made filters for Amarra Symphony for Dirac Live's iRC which was integrated in Amarra Symphony with the beta and official release of build 2.6. iRC was a boon, and my first experience with Dirac Live. I agonized over the placement of the microphone back then. And decided to redo the filters when I discerned that notwithstanding the different choices for seating, e.g., sofa, chair, auditorium, the nine (9) positions and the best (emphasis mine) placement for those positions absence any guidance resulted in too narrow (dimensions) placements especially for the outer measurements. When I made those wider, the following filters sounded better. Narrow was too confining and the resulted SQ conveyed that especially when comparing the filter results.

 

It's like riding a bicycle. You just get on and pedal. Well, I agonized all over again despite past experiences. Like trying to dock with a Space Station. Even with past experience.

 

And I am embarrassed to admit, I screwed up the first set of filters for Dirac Live even though I read the user's manual in advance. Then mismatched what I had read and made a big boo-boo by leaving out the gamut of resolutions by making filters for only frequencies/resolutions 44.1/48. With Dirac Live (different method for iRC back then which was designed to set to 48kHz). I selected W4S Dac2 DSDse as my device which is enabled to play up to 384/32 and DSD 64fs/256fs natively. Then clicked on the rescan to confirm all the selected/possible frequencies from 44.1 to 192. That, for some reason, resulted in the removal of checkmarks save 44.1/48. Did that twice. And I left those two frequencies as the only two selected. Big Mistake! Should have rechecked all the frequencies. There were clues on the right margins of the user manual.

 

That became obvious to me when I engaged roon and Dirac Live having added the two filters to the DAP, selected a 96/24 download in AIFF. The DAP did not stream even though it read "on". Hovering over the filter, I read my fate: In so many words, your filter does not process 96.000. Yikes!

 

Seque to 4:47AM having redone all the filters, but this time, consistent with the devices specifications. The KEF X300A self-powered, AB bi-amps, proprietary Dac for each speaker limited to 96/24 (they sound excellent) so I checked those frequencies up to 96.000.

 

192/24 AIFF played on the main system. 96/24 played on the KEFX300A. Eureka! Slept for three hours. And returned to my listening room wanting to listen to my library.

 

More confusion followed. I started playing album tracks but did not notice anything different with the SQ. Was the DAP working with roon? How would I know? Of course, the DAP read "on" and streaming. Additionally, I discovered the small black arrows next to each of the four filters I had added (2 limited to 44.1/48 and two with appropriate frequencies for the devices' capabilities). But ignored them. Still, I did not experience what I might expect unless Dirac Live is so subtle as to be transparent. What to do?

 

More confusion followed. Now after selecting an album, the track played and then stopped before playing the next sequential track even though I selected play album. And, of course, no gapless play. Gapless play? One track at a time?What to do?

 

It seems during my three hour sleep, roonulons planted a new Zone in the Zone section. The new Zone read "Dirac Audio Processor" to the left, unnamed center, ENABLE to the right, gears icon to right of the right. I named this Zone DAP. Checked Exclusive mode, and later, Integer Mode (beta) if available (thought I heard a positive adjustment when I finally checked this one), 0 delay, max 192, convert DSD to PCM. Do I check both Zones, the W4S Dac2 DSDse and DAP? Can't! It doesn't work that way. But there is a way to play one album in each Zone so I learned.

 

Aha, I enabled the DAP Zone but left it unchecked. I believe that is when I heard a difference. A patent difference. Ah, better. Also, Mon Dieu, now the play album operation returned with gapless play. Even if I have the sequencing not precise from memory, the details are accurate. Or did the next step cure the one track at a time.

 

Then it occured to me to check DAP and discover what would happen. The album continued to play. The DAP's influence was apparent. But the lower section with the controls, e.g., forward/backward, play/pause, the time line start/finish etc. was no longer visible and now with DAP selected there was no controls to stop play. What to do? That's when I discovered what those black arrows are for. They open the DAP to the DSP Gain slider, hence a way to regulate the Gain. Then later discovered that the small black arrow on the right side of the active filter opened even more settings, e.g., sliders for Gain and for delay for each channel, and a reset to the present setting.

 

When I could not return the controls in the lower section of the page, I returned to Zones and reselected W4S Dac2 DSDse. But then what is the purpose for the Zone DAP? Nothing I could find at the roon community (forum) and there is no user manual (just noting this not complaining). Posted a "help" in the Support category. A very nice and knowledgable member responded the same day and succintly explained the big picture to me. Perfect! His advice and instructions were marvelous. I immediately understood what was going on and therefore roon's synergy better. As I have expounded relentlessly, I learn more from goes wrong than when things go right. So thank you SlowHandJazz. Is he a member at CA? YES, he is. How serendipitous for me.

 

What I learned was as follows: Checking the DAP Zone when another Zone is already playing an album/track/playlist removes the lower section as the operative playing Zone is the first selected. The remedy for returning the controls has two methods. 1. Stop play and select the new Zone, then reselect the album etc. Or return to the original Zone and the controls section returns, click on the musical note logo and a transfer to box appears; and one can transfer play from the original Zone to the new/other Zone and in the transferred to Zone the controls reappear. He further explained that this enables playing different selections in different Zones. He also recommended as far as employing roon with Dirac Live (hereafter "roonwDL") selecting the DAP as the Zone and using the DAP lower section where one can select the device for Dirac that way instead of selecting one's Dac or device as a separate Zone with DAP unchecked.

 

This is how I am employing roonwDL from now on. And every bit of advice and explanation for operations of roon are accurate.

 

Given the following assessment is subjective, my good counsel is to check it out for yourself, and if your experience is similar or different, please feel free to post here and let us know.

 

roon is a wonderful program. The player is very good. By comparison, I prefer ASwiRC (Amarra Symphony with iRC) for SQ. But I always have. Yet now with Dirac Live operational (hopefully the filters I created exclusively to work with Dirac Live are the best I can create) roon's player in tandem is far better than without Dirac Live. I would not do without Dirac Live. I have no structural room acoustic treatments. So I am relying on impulse/frequency response correction with Dirac Live as my "room" acoustical treatment.

 

Once engaged Dirac Live with roon adds a new dimension to the SQ. And the DAP's Gain and delay in channel separation is adjustable. I am not good at playing around with technical stuff so I do not mess with how Dirac optimized my filters as opposed to changing the results before saving the filters as other members have done to suit their ears and preferences. I relied totally on letting the Dirac Live program optimize and saved that filter which I am presently employing.

 

Incidentally, I feel the same way about iRC for Amarra Symphony. I would not do without iRC, despite how glorious Amarra Symphony's sonic signature sound is. Please understand that my experience as other members has been since my first listen, I have no problems with Amarra Symphony save those when Apple's iTune or the OSX or Core Audio does something to break or cause problems. I know that there are those members who have been so troubled and have abandoned ASwiRC. That happens with all the programs, and often those peccadillos are eventually removed with the latest innovations.

 

I can now say this about roon. And roonwDL. I have no problems that I am aware of. There has been a learning curve to familiarize myself with the way roon operates. And what may be considered a limitation because DoP is required to play DSD tracks up to DSF128 but not yet for DSD256 for the Mac edition of roon, I am not bothered by the present status of DSD capabilities. An ASIO driver would solve this for me, that is, for me to play through roon DSD natively, but there are no ASIO drivers for the W4S Dac2 DSDse.

 

At some juncture of features, look and feel and operations, given the different tracks for innovation that each software player is following that notwithstanding my love for ASwiRC, I may pulled into roonwDL's orbit and land with this arrangement. It's hard for me to acknowledge this given my years and history with Sonic Studio as a volunteer beta tester and enthusiast for the program.

 

I have not felt the need to contact Dirac SE for help when I am confused about certain matters. I have experienced roon's support as exceptional. Truly. And as in my experience about the best method(s) for implementing Dirac Live with roon, a user/member of roon/community has come forward with precise and excellent support that also expands my understanding and synergy of how roon operates. So too, roon's actual support staff have responded to me the same day with cogent and specific help. If not a solution, the reasons for, the progress anticipated. And all with a friendly tone and thoughtful response. This in my view is unbeatable. No that's not the thought. The total experience as a life-time member of roon and now with Dirac Live and (so far) with TIDAL HIFI is extraordinary and demonstrates their pursuit of excellence. A standard I also experienced with Sonic Studios. The currency of quality SQ can only go so far.

 

The journey with roonwDL is taking me into new realms of computer audio and into the world of music I could only dream about. Except that the dream occurs in a waking state. Hence my assessment of exceptional. And there's apparently more on the horizon to come.

 

I had eschewed streaming from the onset. Ignored the Sonic Studio's products. Ignored all the subscription services. Read about them. Declined to commit. I prefer to own my music. But recently I purchased a 6month+1month(free) prepaid subscription at a slight discount and regular monthly charges thereafter from TIDAL HIFI. And I love that roon has integrated TIDAL HIFI which plays flawlessly inside roon. Will it work with the DAP? I have to find that out. I hope the audio gremlins are not listening or that I have earned a dispensation from (you-know-what) difficulties. I have none. What a nightmare!

 

I highly recommend roon and Dirac Live and TIDAL HIFI. For those members who are put off by an imposed condition regarding credit card backup for trial sessions with roon, I never argue with perception. And I have no stake in the outcome, other than to offer my assessment of the products I use daily. I would encourage any member or reader of the CA forum to open to the experience of the finest in computer audio rendition, management of music, UI/UX (user experience coined by Jiminlogansquare), information about music, artists, composers. I have never experience such a powerful synergy that would appear to be too good to be true. Except it is. And it does not require much to discover and realize the gifts of these programs. Yes, at a cost. But in my view, the cost amortized over time, is a meager amount compared to the return. Hence the enjoyment of music which for me is paramount.

 

Thank you for your time.

 

The music's the thing. The equipment seduces.

 

Richard

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1down (Tidal HiFi), 2 to go.....

 

Thanks Richard for your findings. Certainly helps us in the future when we decide to go down the same path. Enjoy.

 

Hello Abee_V,

 

Congratulations on subscribing to TIDAL HIFI. I am enjoying the advantages to TIDAL and the quality of HIFI, which plays without incident, even on my iPad Air 2 (in HIFI).

 

2 to go? roon and Dirac Live? If so, I will be looking forward to your assessment, if you care to post. Your assessment from your perspective will be a value for others. Of course, as always, one must check out these programs his/herself.

 

Thank you for your good wishes. I am doing just as you prescribe. Enjoying the music.

 

Best,

Richard

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  • 1 month later...

Dear All:

 

I am back with an update for my assessment of roon with Dirac Live. It has been over a month since my last review.

 

With the release of the V1.1 update of roon, I can honestly relate that the extensive update has improved roon in UI/UX/EM. EM? Yes, enjoyment of music (hereafter "EM")(smile). I coined the AQJB mnemonic noticed by Gordin Rankin, Jr. the innovator, now widely used. So? So EM saves typing and conveys what roon with Dirac Live delivers. Just sayin'.

 

I notice that the roon Forum topics have increased in issues with the roon update. I seem to have avoided neaerly 100% of them (here he goes again). I am impressed with how many posts concern meta date management. I am impressed with how serious that management is for CA members. I am impressed with how mostly unimportant for me EM is compared to the level of concern others manifest. To be clear, I am not dismissing the value of meta data and respect other member's dedication to personalizing meta data consistent with their preferences. And further, the influence of meta data handling occupies on the overall EM and roon. Members take meta data very seriously.

 

So does roon, apparently, as it inures to the UI/UX given the number of posts at their Forum. The update accomodates a more liberal (read powerful) implementation for members to customize the meta-data notwithstanding how roon decided the form should be to work with their overall interface and presentation with our music library databases. And considering the size of our databases, meta-data can play a significant role in selecting tracks/albums to play. I am impressed with roon's dedication to our needs, preferences and their implementation to deliver both a highly innovative program and flexible.

 

There has been some crumbling about the impending roon remote app intended to assist us in controlling the operations of roon remotely. I have been reproached by one member for creating ambiguity in referring to the roon remote app as confusing that with the roon remote client. Words have meaning. Enough said. The crumbling concerns a decision by roon to implement a roon remote app (as opposed to the roon software application one uses as a core or as a remote client based on setup choices) that only works on the latest iPad and iPad Minis and not on legacy iPad/iPad Minis or iPhones even the most recent iPhone 6 and 6+. I am referring to the iOS edition of the roon remote app. There's also a Android remote app by roon that is more flexible for models of the Android group, which also cost much less than iPads and iPhones. There is the intention to innovate an iPhone roon remote app, perhaps, sometime next year.

 

Back to EM and my experience with version 1.1. What specifically about the roon update contributes to an improvement in delivering a notch or two of higher SQ, I do not know. Imagined or real, I can discern the improvement. Obviously, my assessment is subjective. I have no stake in convincing anyone of the validity of my SQ assessment.

 

I should also disclose that even before the release of V1.1, I have added several components which also inure to the improvement of the SQ from roon. Briefly, the full compliment of UpTone Audio's JS-2 LPS/MMK/Regent/custom DC coax cable for Regent and two (2) AQJBs. And clearly the additions of those devices inures to the benefit of any other the several software players I employ. The improvement, therefore, is not specific to roon alone, but to Amarra Symphony with iRC and HQPlayer and BitPerfect and Fidelia. I have chosen not to upgrade Audirvana Plus because I chose roon. What utility to also upgrade Audirvana Plus as good as other members appraise the program. And I have never activate JRMC (please don't read anything into that decision).

 

I made sure to assess the roon update with and without Dirac Live. The difference is palpable. Impulse response correction or room correction as they seem to be interchangeably used, for me, makes a decided improvement. Before I purchased a lifetime license/membership for roon, I was already impressed by Dirac SE's iRC which I employ with Amarra Symphony since build 2.6. For those who are not aware, I have been a volunteer beta tester for Sonic Studio since 2011. And continue to do so presently, testing Amarra For TIDAL and AsQ+ both with iRC.

 

Dirac Live (Full program) is in my opinion indispensible to the EM when employing the roon player. I not only hear the difference, I feel the difference. Tell me my feelings are imagine, manufactured, delusional. Visceral input for me is highly useful as a criterion for what I am experiencing and for determining the quality of Change which I regard as the true and indispensible constant in the service of (my) Truth.

 

I regret that Dirac Live (Full) is limited to a sample rate ceiling of 192/24 and, obviously, of no utility to DSD tracks. But, frankly, that is not a criterion for rejecting the program's input to EM. I do acknowledge that with Dirac Live, I have to attend to the Filter Gain setting and that in many respects require my attention so that a remote app is limited unless I set the Filter Gain to a level that covers and wide range of production qualities of albums in my music library. And when I do set Dirac Live to a median setting, for some albums the dynamics are subdued. When the production quality is "hot" and compressed, thank goodness for Dirac Live. When playing high quality produced albums like Barry Diament's Soundkeeper Recordings, I set Dirac Live's Filter Gain to 0.0. Guess what that accomplishes. No need for Dirac Live for those high quality productions. Disclosure: I consider Barry Diament a friend; but I that does not influence my findings.

 

Incidentally, I have read that Dirac Live works with Audirvana Plus and so does Dirac Live with Au plugins which i do not emloy. If and when HQPlayer is integrated with roon, I hope Dirac Live can be implemented with that configuration. Does Dirac Live already work with HQPlayer? I don't know. I have not inquired. Perhaps, I should now for when an integration is actualized.

 

For the record, as much as I enjoy the EM with roonwDL (roon with Dirac Live), my preference for SQ delivery is Amarra Symphony with iRC. The UI/UX with roon is far and above that with ASwiRC. But the edge in SQ, in my opinion, favors Sonic Studio's Amarra Symphony with iRC. The common denominator is the influence of Dirac SE's iRC with Amarra Symphony and Dirac Live with roon.

 

Clearly, the ethic of roon's aspirations for the future of their program places it at the top of my hierarchy for UI/UX/EM. SQ is with ASwiRC. DSD play and upsampling of PCM to DSD is with HQPlayer. I haven't purposefully left out mention of TIDAL HIFI. roon delivers TIDAL HIFI with Dirac Live very well! Easy as pie. And to be fair, so does Amarra For TIDAL with HIFI and iRC. You can find assessments that favor other than A4THFwiRC and AsQ+with iRC and with TIDALHIFI which AsQ+ accomplishes. I can enjoy any of those programs. If the EM is good enough (not a concession) and good enough connotes an EM that keeps me listening rather than critical differences, then I am open to employing a variety of programs. The hangup, as I regard it, favors roon with allows one to remain in the program without switching and playing DSD (for Mac DoP) and TIDAL HIFI and Dirac Live common to both. But roon does not allow for the EQ/parametric EQ settings provided with A4T and AsQ+. And this may sound a bit contrived, I really appreciate the meters provided with ASwiRC, A4T, AsQ+ so that I can monitor the volume levels and potential for clipping even from my near-field listening position, whereas with roon all I can discern is tiny, little bars moving up and down, cartoon-like representing (what?). The meters for my sensibility are highly useful.

 

To sum up, the EM/UI/UX with roonwDL and TIDAL HIFI is so good that I am torn between roon and Sonic Studio. And that's the Emmis (my truth).

 

Feel free to express your assessment of roon's EM, if you care to.

 

The music's the thing; the equipment seduces,

Richard

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Dear All:

 

With the release of roon's remote app (hereafter "rRA"), my experience with roon's application has just improved several notches up the ladder of UI/UX/EM. The form and function of the rRA is marvelous. Practically indistinguishable from the actual application. Never experienced anything remotely (pun intended) like this app. Typically remote apps are rather crude, awkward to use and fairly limited in operations. I have no experience with Audirvana Plus V.2.X. Fidelia's remote is very good. No experience with JRemote or JRMC.

 

The rRA is gorgeous. I employ an iPad Air 2 and the GUI is remarkable. I purchased a life-time license/membership early on skipping the trial when I first glimpsed the marketing materials and without even assessing the SQ. Access to TIDAL HIFI while remaining within the program was also an incentive though streaming was never a priority for my preferred use. I also prefer to play albums rather than tracks and playlists.

 

There is nothing I can not accomplish with the rRA. Sometime in the future (how near, far?) roonSpeaker will be made available; and with the rRA one will be able to control a roon Remote Client (hereafter "rRC"). Hence I can play one album in my listening room seated near field and control a rRC in my library, kitchen, bedroom and play a different album or several different albums for each of those locations. Just marvelous.

 

If I had any reservations about the SQ from roon, the simultaneous acquisition of Dirac Live (Full program) added a significant improvement to a good SQ incipiently. With Dirac Live the SQ became very good. And even better by degree with the latest update build, V1.1.

 

Now, if only there was a method for "regulating" Dirac Live remotely I might take up residency and change my address to my near field chair. Though I have noticed that unlike iRC with Dirac Live I can set it and mostly not need to change that setting unless the production quality of a recording demands it.

 

Please take notice that the developers of roon targeted the specifications/requirements for the iOS edition of rRA to the following:

iPad Air, iPad Air 2, iPad Mini 2, or iPad Mini 3

iOS 8

Roon membership

Roon or RoonServer on your network running v1.1 Build 51 or higher

(Note that the app doesn't yet appear in App Store search results. Install Roon Remote by clicking here105 on your supported iOS device)

 

Consequently, some members at CA are displeased, understandably, that their devices do not meet the specific requirements. There are specific requirements for the Android edition of the remote app which I have not listed in this post.

 

Personally, I support the raison d'etre of the developer's decision to support software/hardware starting at a certain build/model. Designing for backward compatibility accomplishes just that: Backwards, hobbled, limited, troublesome. The form and function requires a certain dynamic for build and models from the Present and into the Future. I have had too much experience with imposed limitations on the development and stabliity of programs and devices in order to please everyone. roon's perspectives only serves to provide me with even more confidence in my decision to purchase the life-time license. Their generous, timely, comprehensive support which in my experience is available without delay and with such good will and access to the staff as to enhance my confidence further. The last time I had a problem that actually solved itself, I was provided support almost immediately after posting my problem in the Support subforum and in the interim between my response to the support, I was PM'd and provided with a method for uploading files to help roon help me. I have no other experience or example of support at this level or this generous.

 

I continue to hold Amarra Symphony with iRC as my go-to player for the delivery of the best SQ (Playlist mode). But, as much as I value ASwiRC, roon's highly innovative application and development objectives which manifest at a brusque schedule by comparison, is addictive and captures my attention and attendance. I could not be more pleased overall. I continue to beta test on a volunteer basis for Sonic Studio because I appreciate their product and their genuine values for performance. roon takes my computer audio enjoyment of music to a level that I doubt will be replicated or matched.

 

Highly recommended for all the reasons I have provided and for all that may come forward in the Future. The best of roon just got better; and there's more to come. Worth the price of admission and then some.

 

The music's the thing; the equipment seduces. Enjoying the music,

Richard

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Dear All:

 

An OT side step if you will. I am sitting at my iMac in my "computer room". It's a work studio where I do what is needed to manage my practice, my wife's practice, etc. For the longest time music free as I shied away from sending my iTunes library to my iMac.

 

Girded my loins, and a few weeks ago, added the roon Remote Client ("rRC") on my iMac. And today launched roon for the second time in weeks -- weeks that's how limited I allowed myself to enjoy music -- only in my main listening room or adjoining office study.

 

Forgot about the update to roon V1.1.55. But was immediately given notice. Clicked on update; and in about two seconds, roon reappeared. I thought I must have done something incorrectly. Checked "About" and the build showed the latest. Flawless, transparent update.

 

I just learned that I can use my rRC to control my roon Core and direct the Zone and the music content. Didn't realize that was possible. Again, flawless, transparent. One can do, as far as I know, anything from the rRC that the roon Remote Core ('rRC") can, or most of the operations.

 

Presently, I am playing TIDAL HIFI Playlist dedicated to Rolling Stones: Best Songs Of All Time, 457 tracks/30 hours, á la Pandora type radio station. I was able to choose my Logitech 5.1 system which I employ for my iMac. It's connected to iMac by Coax cable from the Logitech controller into the digital port on the back of the iMac. And frankly, I am thrilled. Presently listening to Marvin Gaye's What's Going On. What's going on? The next best roon. Haven't enjoyed access to my music library and now TIDAL HIFI as I am presently. Marvelous.

 

So glad I decided to purchase the life-time license/membership and now, to my surprise, a subscription to TIDAL HIFI.

 

Just change the input to Optical Stereo X2 so that Aretha Franklin's R-E-S-P-E-C-T is coming from the front LR and the rear LR which is now filling the room with The Beach Boy's Good Vibrations. That describes my present experience perfectly. In fact I am having trouble focusing on typing this post as the music is tugging at me to stop and listen. Somehow the sub is getting a signal but not the center speaker. So I am hearing stereoX2 from front rear LR and the subwoofer under my desk.

 

Wow! Chuck Berry's johnny B goode. As good as it gets for me from this system. Bravo roon's Danny, Brian, Mike et al.

 

Enjoying the music,

Richard

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  • 1 month later...

Dear All:

 

roon has released build 1.1.69. Release notes can be viewed at roon's forum here: https://community.roonlabs.com/t/roon-1-1-build-69-released/4679

 

Best,

Richard

 

New Functionality:

 

  • File signatures are now computed based on audio content instead of the contents of the whole file. This should make file tracking more reliable when tags are edited outside of Roon.
  • Handling of storage events has been overhauled. Migrating files from one storage location to another, moving/renaming files and directories, and similar operations should be significantly more reliable
  • Added "Use Max Hardware Buffer Size" setting for ASIO devices, to hopefully help some people with dropouts.

Bug Fixes:

 

  • Fixed a storage bug that caused a collection reimport in certain failure scenarios involving network shares.
  • Fixed commas between performer names so they don't look like links
  • Fixed android crash when playing content that requires sample rate conversion on the tablet
  • Improved handling of file tags that indicate multiple album artists, or lack album artist tags entirely.
  • Fixed a situation where it's possible to end up with two zones for one ASIO device
  • Fixed some TIDAL syncing issues related to certain countries
  • Fixed some issues with TIDAL playlist syncing
  • Fixed a bug where network failures during import could result in a spinner until the next app restart and incorrect progress counts
  • Fixed a problem with RoonServer that prevented it from auto-restarting in case of a crash
  • The "Uncategorized" category for genres has been killed. Genres from file tags default to being toplevel genres.
  • Fixed a bug that caused us to play a fraction of a second of PCM silence at the end of a DSD stream, thereby causing a an audible "pop" on some hardware.
  • The "Identify Album" flow no longer clears the import date when applying metadata results
  • Improved performance of TIDAL syncs when there is no data to by synced.
  • Fixed a deadlock in the ASIO subsystem that caused zones to get "hung" after encountering corrupt media
  • Fixed a bug that caused alternate versions as displayed in the UI to get out of sync with the database under certain situations. The most obvious consequence was that marking a TIDAL album as the primary in a set of alternate versions didn't work reliably.
  • Fixed a bug that caused track duplicates to be remain marked as duplicates after the content that they duplicated was removed from the library
  • Fixed a longstanding windows crash triggered by certain MP3 files.

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