davide256 Posted August 9, 2015 Share Posted August 9, 2015 The Red's are optimized for NAS/file server reliability. The other WD colour drives are optimized for PC use where machines are not commonly powered up 7x24 Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
Audio_ELF Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Hi davide256, Does this mean the colour is an indication of intended use or just that is a higher spec that people find works well as a NAS HD? WD give their drives a colour reference based on intended use... Blue - standard desktop / mobile line Green - low power desktop / mobile line Black - high performance desktop / mobile Red - NAS Re - high performance NAS Purple - surveilance There are also various data centre / enterprise lines. Eloise --- ...in my opinion / experience... While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing. And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism. keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out. Link to comment
mattjtaylor2809 Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 Thanks Audio Elf, In terms of which proprietary 3.5 HD, apart from WD are there other brands I should look at, SeaGate, Lacie etc or are they all very similar in terms of performance, "sound" quality etc? Cheers Matthew Man Cave: 2CH: VPI Aries Scout + Hana SL MC Cart > Gold Note PH-10 / PS Audio PW Transport / Innous ZEN Mini Mk 3 (ROON Core) + LPSU > PS Audio DirectStream Jnr > Ayre KX-5 > Rogue Audio M-180 Monoblocks > Dynaudio Focus 380's HT: Sony 4K BD > Sony VW60 > Integra DRX3.1 > Dynaudio X24 Centre + Monitor Audio rears. Family Room: 2CH: Matrix Mini-i 3Pro > Bel Canto Pre3 > Bel Canto REf500s 2CH AMP HT: Sony UHD BD > Denon X4000 > Dynaudio Emit 20 + X22 Centre + in-ceiling B&W's. Cables & Misc: Man Cave: PAD Musaeus & Antipodes Komako XLR's / Bills Pinnacle Speak Cables / Audio Principe & Voodoo Power Cords + Isotek Aquarius Power Conditioner Family Room: Audio Principe XLR's, Speaker & Power Cables / Elijah USB cables. Tubes: 12AX7/ECC83: NOS Telefunken 1963, Mullard CV492, Brimar + Stock Elecktra Harmonix. 12AU7/ECC82: NOS Valvo E80CC's, 1963 RCA "Conn" Organs Long Plate Clear tops, RCA Blackplates, Tungstrum + Stock Electra Harmonix. KT120: Tsung-Tol Link to comment
mattjtaylor2809 Posted August 13, 2015 Author Share Posted August 13, 2015 Hi All, Another quick question, If I were to buy a Synology DiskStation DS214play, can I use jPlay or any other software (Plex?) as a media server or do I have to use Synology's DSM5.2? What about PureMusic or even Audirvana, do they have media server software? Cheers Matthew Man Cave: 2CH: VPI Aries Scout + Hana SL MC Cart > Gold Note PH-10 / PS Audio PW Transport / Innous ZEN Mini Mk 3 (ROON Core) + LPSU > PS Audio DirectStream Jnr > Ayre KX-5 > Rogue Audio M-180 Monoblocks > Dynaudio Focus 380's HT: Sony 4K BD > Sony VW60 > Integra DRX3.1 > Dynaudio X24 Centre + Monitor Audio rears. Family Room: 2CH: Matrix Mini-i 3Pro > Bel Canto Pre3 > Bel Canto REf500s 2CH AMP HT: Sony UHD BD > Denon X4000 > Dynaudio Emit 20 + X22 Centre + in-ceiling B&W's. Cables & Misc: Man Cave: PAD Musaeus & Antipodes Komako XLR's / Bills Pinnacle Speak Cables / Audio Principe & Voodoo Power Cords + Isotek Aquarius Power Conditioner Family Room: Audio Principe XLR's, Speaker & Power Cables / Elijah USB cables. Tubes: 12AX7/ECC83: NOS Telefunken 1963, Mullard CV492, Brimar + Stock Elecktra Harmonix. 12AU7/ECC82: NOS Valvo E80CC's, 1963 RCA "Conn" Organs Long Plate Clear tops, RCA Blackplates, Tungstrum + Stock Electra Harmonix. KT120: Tsung-Tol Link to comment
alcarp Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 Bought the 214play because I wanted the highest Intel horsepower I could get in an affordable 2 disk NAS for audio playback and it has not disappointed. Out of the box it performed as well as my temperamental Server 2012 AO optimized PC for UPNP file server music playback quality. Only quibble is that the power supply connection is a bit loose, can easily come unplugged if you move the NAS. The SSD's I use aren't necessary if you use an upgraded 12V DC power supply like the HDPlex but at the time I bought I was skeptical about power supply options like Teradak/HDPlex and SSD's were a known quantity to boost performance. Hi Dave, Have you compared SQ with LPS versus standard PSU? Link to comment
Audio_ELF Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 In terms of which proprietary 3.5 HD, apart from WD are there other brands I should look at, SeaGate, Lacie etc or are they all very similar in terms of performance, "sound" quality etc? In terms of sound quality: its my experience that all drives will sound the same especially when in a NAS. Some people will give you different advice. As for brands: there are actually only three manufacturers of drives these days - Seagate Technology (including its subsidiary brands Maxtor and Samsung); Toshiba and Western Digital (including its subsidiary brand HGST formerly Hitachi). There are many more brands who produce external drives but if you break open the case you will find one of these drives inside. As for reliability - well Backblaze is a massive online / cloud backup facility and they produce stats of the failure rate of their drives to give some kind of indication -- https://www.backblaze.com/blog/best-hard-drive/ -- and a bit more analysis of the Backblaze data -- Hard disk reliability examined once more: HGST rules, Seagate is alarming | Ars Technica -- though some people have questioned the validity of the Backblaze data / study -- How NOT to evaluate hard disk reliability: Backblaze vs world+dog Eloise --- ...in my opinion / experience... While I agree "Everything may matter" working out what actually affects the sound is a trickier thing. And I agree "Trust your ears" but equally don't allow them to fool you - trust them with a bit of skepticism. keep your mind open... But mind your brain doesn't fall out. Link to comment
John769 Posted August 14, 2015 Share Posted August 14, 2015 (including its subsidiary brands Maxtor and Samsung) Hi Eloise. Any idea if Samsung Spinpoint M9 (2TB, 2.5") drives work on Synology's (with adapter, if necessary)? They're not on their compatible list but it might not be exhaustive, I guess. Got three of the things and I don't really want to buy new drives. Could easily turn off NAS when not used to preserve HDD life. Link to comment
plissken Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Many NAS devices will spin down the drives when not in use. My ReadyNAS 304 does. I'm using Seagate 4TB drives in mine (standard desktop) and they've been fine all this time. I don't worry about streamers since I pull all my music over SMB 3.0 to JRIVER. Just setup libraries as I desire and done. Link to comment
plissken Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 "sound" quality etc? Cheers Matthew Sound quality will be the same since on the device actually playing back it will play back out of it's local memory buffer. What's happened is a copy of what is on the NAS has been made and the copy is being read. Link to comment
emidalla Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 If I were to buy a Synology DiskStation DS214play, can I use jPlay or any other software (Plex?) as a media server or do I have to use Synology's DSM5.2? You can also use third party software. minimserver and Plex, for instance, are two media servers that can be installed on almost all Synology models. OTOH, don't think you can install jPlay, PureMusic or Audirvana, at least not officially. Synology's media server, however, can be very interesting if you plan to stream your local content when you are far from home. Link to comment
davide256 Posted August 15, 2015 Share Posted August 15, 2015 Hi Dave,Have you compared SQ with LPS versus standard PSU? I could hear no difference between using the HDPLex as 12V LPS vs the stock PSU with SSD's. I am hearing an improvement in detail using the LPS 12V to power my network router instead Regards, Dave Audio system Link to comment
mattjtaylor2809 Posted August 16, 2015 Author Share Posted August 16, 2015 Thanks all, So which mediaCentre / Server, compatible with a Synolgy NAS is best to use, i.e. in terms of SQ, library management, ease of use (via iphones, android & ipads etc..). I know that you can use Synologies proprietry DSM software but I'm not familiar with this software. Cheers Matthew Man Cave: 2CH: VPI Aries Scout + Hana SL MC Cart > Gold Note PH-10 / PS Audio PW Transport / Innous ZEN Mini Mk 3 (ROON Core) + LPSU > PS Audio DirectStream Jnr > Ayre KX-5 > Rogue Audio M-180 Monoblocks > Dynaudio Focus 380's HT: Sony 4K BD > Sony VW60 > Integra DRX3.1 > Dynaudio X24 Centre + Monitor Audio rears. Family Room: 2CH: Matrix Mini-i 3Pro > Bel Canto Pre3 > Bel Canto REf500s 2CH AMP HT: Sony UHD BD > Denon X4000 > Dynaudio Emit 20 + X22 Centre + in-ceiling B&W's. Cables & Misc: Man Cave: PAD Musaeus & Antipodes Komako XLR's / Bills Pinnacle Speak Cables / Audio Principe & Voodoo Power Cords + Isotek Aquarius Power Conditioner Family Room: Audio Principe XLR's, Speaker & Power Cables / Elijah USB cables. Tubes: 12AX7/ECC83: NOS Telefunken 1963, Mullard CV492, Brimar + Stock Elecktra Harmonix. 12AU7/ECC82: NOS Valvo E80CC's, 1963 RCA "Conn" Organs Long Plate Clear tops, RCA Blackplates, Tungstrum + Stock Electra Harmonix. KT120: Tsung-Tol Link to comment
emidalla Posted August 17, 2015 Share Posted August 17, 2015 So which mediaCentre / Server, compatible with a Synolgy NAS is best to use, i.e. in terms of SQ, library management, ease of use (via iphones, android & ipads etc..). I know that you can use Synologies proprietry DSM software but I'm not familiar with this software. In terms of ease of use, Synology server is not different from, let's say, Plex. Plex, on the other hand, has an aspect that is imho nicer (providing infos on artist and so on). SQ wise, it depends on your needs. If you need to convert/upsample/downsample music on the fly you may prefer one server over another. If, like me, you simply need to stream from NAS to the renderer, the choice of the media server should not be an issue and it would only depend on personal taste. Link to comment
Marcin_gps Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 Hi All, Another quick question, If I were to buy a Synology DiskStation DS214play, can I use jPlay or any other software (Plex?) as a media server or do I have to use Synology's DSM5.2? What about PureMusic or even Audirvana, do they have media server software? Cheers Matthew JPLAY does not offer media server functionality. Only renderer (JPLAYStreamer) Cheers, Marcin JPLAY & JCAT Founder Link to comment
kaufenpreis Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 That is the question and I figured it might be worth a post or two to explore. The original question posted was this: what’s the sonic difference of using a Mac Mini or a NAS as a server? It’s a very good question, asked often. First, let’s get clear what each is, then we can go on to answering some of the more perplexing aspects. Both a NAS (Network Attached Storage) and a Mac Mini are computers. Both have hard drives, both have operating systems, both have GUIs to control them, though built in and require an external monitor, mouse and keyboard to control. So what are the differences? The Mac Mini is a sophisticated computer with a hard drive, and a NAS is a hard drive with an unsophisticated computer. Think of them this way: Mac Mini is a computer first, hard drive second, and a NAS is the opposite. One of the major differences between the two is how they connect to our DACs, though the Mini is a bit of a chameleon and can go both ways, while a NAS cannot. Tomorrow let’s start with understanding the NAS. hi Link to comment
mattjtaylor2809 Posted August 18, 2015 Author Share Posted August 18, 2015 Thanks Kaufenpreis, I'm slowly understanding...I think but a step back would help I think! Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Man Cave: 2CH: VPI Aries Scout + Hana SL MC Cart > Gold Note PH-10 / PS Audio PW Transport / Innous ZEN Mini Mk 3 (ROON Core) + LPSU > PS Audio DirectStream Jnr > Ayre KX-5 > Rogue Audio M-180 Monoblocks > Dynaudio Focus 380's HT: Sony 4K BD > Sony VW60 > Integra DRX3.1 > Dynaudio X24 Centre + Monitor Audio rears. Family Room: 2CH: Matrix Mini-i 3Pro > Bel Canto Pre3 > Bel Canto REf500s 2CH AMP HT: Sony UHD BD > Denon X4000 > Dynaudio Emit 20 + X22 Centre + in-ceiling B&W's. Cables & Misc: Man Cave: PAD Musaeus & Antipodes Komako XLR's / Bills Pinnacle Speak Cables / Audio Principe & Voodoo Power Cords + Isotek Aquarius Power Conditioner Family Room: Audio Principe XLR's, Speaker & Power Cables / Elijah USB cables. Tubes: 12AX7/ECC83: NOS Telefunken 1963, Mullard CV492, Brimar + Stock Elecktra Harmonix. 12AU7/ECC82: NOS Valvo E80CC's, 1963 RCA "Conn" Organs Long Plate Clear tops, RCA Blackplates, Tungstrum + Stock Electra Harmonix. KT120: Tsung-Tol Link to comment
Doak Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 That is the question and I figured it might be worth a post or two to explore. The original question posted was this: what’s the sonic difference of using a Mac Mini or a NAS as a server? It’s a very good question, asked often.......Tomorrow let’s start with understanding the NAS. Great! EXACTLY what I need and am looking for. Doak's Audio System Link to comment
jabbr Posted August 18, 2015 Share Posted August 18, 2015 That is the question and I figured it might be worth a post or two to explore. The original question posted was this: what’s the sonic difference of using a Mac Mini or a NAS as a server? It’s a very good question, asked often. First, let’s get clear what each is, then we can go on to answering some of the more perplexing aspects. Both a NAS (Network Attached Storage) and a Mac Mini are computers. Both have hard drives, both have operating systems, both have GUIs to control them, though built in and require an external monitor, mouse and keyboard to control. So what are the differences? The Mac Mini is a sophisticated computer with a hard drive, and a NAS is a hard drive with an unsophisticated computer. Think of them this way: Mac Mini is a computer first, hard drive second, and a NAS is the opposite. One of the major differences between the two is how they connect to our DACs, though the Mini is a bit of a chameleon and can go both ways, while a NAS cannot. Tomorrow let’s start with understanding the NAS. Hmmm.... my NAS has 10G fiber for the network, its own SAS3 connection, and runs ZFS on many terabytes. Its actually much more sophisticated than the Mac Mini. My NAS doesn't have a GUI but that's only by my choice. I SSH in to control. Also has IPMI so no directly attached keyboard, monitor ... well I also use it as a console terminal for my network switches but that's another matter. And oh yeah, I prefer Hitachi nearline SAS drives these days. Custom room treatments for headphone users. Link to comment
Jumbosausage Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 I run FreeNAS and it's absolutely rock solid. It's quite an expesive route to take due the the hardware requirements that ZFS demands. But ZFS really is the best file system for storage. Here's my build. Fractal Design R4 Supermicro X10SL7-F Xeon E3-1230 V3 Kingston 2x 8gb KVR16E11/8 Corsair RM 550w 10x Hitachi Ultrastar 7K300 Link to comment
asindc Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Ok, I've read through the thread. The question remains, however: Does a NAS offer better sound quality than using external HDDs on a Mac Mini? I have the current setup: External HDDs (AIFF files stored in iTunes)---> Firewire 800---> Mac Mini---> USB... Theorically with NAS: NAS (AIFF files)---> Ethernet---> Router---> Ethernet---> Mac Mini---> USB... Essentially, I would be substituting the external HDDs-to-Mac Mini via firewire with NAS-to-Router-to-Mac Mini via Ethernet. Is it worth it from a sound quality standpoint? *ANTIPODES CX--- Ethernet---> *CARY DMS-600 STREAMER/DAC---> XLR ICs---> *CARY SLP-05 preamp (Ultimate Upgrade ed.)---> XLR ICs---> *CLAYTON M-300 amps---> *MARTIN LOGAN Spire speakers. Link to comment
Jumbosausage Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Ok, I've read through the thread. The question remains, however: Does a NAS offer better sound quality than using external HDDs on a Mac Mini? I have the current setup: External HDDs (AIFF files stored in iTunes)---> Firewire 800---> Mac Mini---> USB... Theorically with NAS: NAS (AIFF files)---> Ethernet---> Router---> Ethernet---> Mac Mini---> USB... Essentially, I would be substituting the external HDDs-to-Mac Mini via firewire with NAS-to-Router-to-Mac Mini via Ethernet. Is it worth it from a sound quality standpoint? From a sound quality standpoint, I'd say no. A NAS has many other benefits though. A centralised storage location accessible from any device on the network or over the internet. You're also likely going to have better redundancy depending what RAID/ZFS config you use. That said a NAS should never be used as a backup. I personally keep a copy of all my music from the NAS on separate hdd's stored away from my home. Link to comment
asindc Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 From a sound quality standpoint, I'd say no. A NAS has many other benefits though. A centralised storage location accessible from any device on the network or over the internet. You're also likely going to have better redundancy depending what RAID/ZFS config you use. That said a NAS should never be used as a backup. I personally keep a copy of all my music from the NAS on separate hdd's stored away from my home. Thanks for the reply. I would be backing up the NAS with an external HDD as I do now. As far as accessing the library via other devices, I have AirPlay through Apple TV or directly to the particular device. Being able to access it over the internet is intriguing, but in my limited research so far, such solutions via NAS seem to involve setting up a paid cloud account through the NAS manufacturer or a 3rd party, which does not appeal to me. *ANTIPODES CX--- Ethernet---> *CARY DMS-600 STREAMER/DAC---> XLR ICs---> *CARY SLP-05 preamp (Ultimate Upgrade ed.)---> XLR ICs---> *CLAYTON M-300 amps---> *MARTIN LOGAN Spire speakers. Link to comment
Jumbosausage Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 Thanks for the reply. I would be backing up the NAS with an external HDD as I do now. As far as accessing the library via other devices, I have AirPlay through Apple TV or directly to the particular device. Being able to access it over the internet is intriguing, but in my limited research so far, such solutions via NAS seem to involve setting up a paid cloud account through the NAS manufacturer or a 3rd party, which does not appeal to me. I'm in the UK and my parents live in Spain, I've shared my Plex media library with them and they're able to view all my media from over there, music, movies and TV Shows. I also stream my entire music library to my phone using the Subsonic app. Pretty sure I didn't pay anything for either of these solutions when I set them up although it was a few years ago now. Link to comment
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